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pktazn

[CSE] Tsubaki vs Ragna

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Ah it just might be me doing something wrong then. Most of the time the 2C hits quite late and because of that it may blue beat. Not a big deal as you rightly pointed out we could opt for that alternative combo.

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It's been my observation that combos where j.D j.C |> dash 5C 2CC would fail against the average character, 5C 2C fails against Ragna, but as long as you'd be able to 2CC anyone else you can 2C him.

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Been playing lots of Ragna players lately (this is my shocked face) and I sortof realized something; Due to the way Ragna's 5B works, you can pretty much totally disrespect Ragna players who try to do Dash 5B from Dead Spike outside of fairly close range - since Ragna's 5B only extends its hitbox to his foot on frame 12, unless he's close enough to hit you with the "early" hitbox, you can just mash 5A and CH him quite reliably. This might work against dash 5C as well, though I've never actually seen anyone do that, but will lose to dash 2A/5A if they start catching on. But if they are autopiloting dash 5B, this is pretty much your solution - even if you barrier block Dead Spike, this should work fine (should actually help, thanks to the added pushback)

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I had no idea idea that worked, and I was really cautious about pressing buttons after a DS, but this is good to know. I knew his pressure could be disrespected, but what I didn't know is how.

Thanks dude. :) Glad you got on the EX Bandwagon now.

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I had no idea idea that worked, and I was really cautious about pressing buttons after a DS, but this is good to know. I knew his pressure could be disrespected, but what I didn't know is how.

Thanks dude. :) Glad you got on the EX Bandwagon now.

The sad thing is that the A-DP will -trade- because it hits so much slower, but 5A just pokes him out quite reliably.

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In theory, I guess a throw would work even better for that, but you've got a longer recovery if they don't do it.

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Oooh we're theory fighting?! Awesome! Nah I'm playing.

Are you talking about throwing Ragna after DS?

Honestly I doubt that'll work since Ragna would just get CH. He will not be in range for a throw after DS, and a kara throw will not work either unfortunately.

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well it was specifically when rags does a dead spike at a significant distance, and tries to follow up with 5b. it's the same thing as 5a, but instead throw. look at the hitboxes, seems like it could work..

essentially 6 frame startup

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/tsubaki/groundThrow.html

8 frame startup, 13 frame for long range

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/ragna/5B.html

Dead spike-> + 3 (more if meaty)

so yea, obviously it loses if they're close enough.

anyway, I did specifically mention theory because it is theory, and I have no interest in 'theory fighting'... have to test to see if it's actually practical..

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Ah I see whatcha mean, seems risky.

But sure if you test it please let me know your findings!

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i wish Tsubaki's Mugen was like Blood kain ._. that'll make her a tiny bit better....

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The best part was how it related to the MU against Ragna.

Seriously though it shouldn't for several reasons but I'm not gonna go into that because more posts will continue to be against the main topic at hand. You should discuss this in the BB related thread.

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The best part was how it related to the MU against Ragna.

Seriously though it shouldn't for several reasons but I'm not gonna go into that because more posts will continue to be against the main topic at hand. You should discuss this in the BB related thread.

understood

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Like on block? (dash) 5A > 5CC > combo should work. Just don't barrier to push yourself far away. Of course, watch out for gimmick delayed followup and RC.

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If you have a charge you can go for dash 5C > 2C > 214D > IAD combo.

If you've got a charge and meter, you can go for a sexy 5CC > Mugen combo for massive damage.

Dash 5C > j.BB > j.c > dash 5C > j.BB loop works on ragna as well if you've got no charge to work with.

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This may sound like a dumb question, but what do people do when caught in Ragna's 22C combo ender? I used to try to break the stagger because, hey, I'm staggered, but today I just tried blocking low and being ready to tech throws, and it seems to work way better, since I don't have to worry about hitting a button after I've auto-recovered or something, and at worst I get hit for a tiny bit of extra damage.

What do other folks do?

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How about against his 6D j.D? not sure how to punish but surely this isn't safe for him to throw out and have it blocked?

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How about against his 6D j.D? not sure how to punish but surely this isn't safe for him to throw out and have it blocked?

There is no gap between 6D and j.D even on IB, you can't do anything about it really.

You can DP after he does j.D if he decides to do anything afterwards, though he can still bait this and well...that's obviously not in your favour.

I would just keep blocking and DP or punish him on some of his other strings instead.

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There is no gap between 6D and j.D even on IB, you can't do anything about it really.

You can DP after he does j.D if he decides to do anything afterwards, though he can still bait this and well...that's obviously not in your favour.

I would just keep blocking and DP or punish him on some of his other strings instead.

6D > j.D is kinda like Dead Spike - the time to punish it is BEFORE 6D comes out - it's 26 frames of startup, so it's imminently jabbable (5A only! 2A will probably whiff on the foot invulnerability) off of most gatlings (though the irritating thing about it is that he can go to 6D after almost anything - the only times he CAN'T go to 6D are after his moves with NO Gatlings (6A, 5D, 2D) or 3C) Once you've blocked the 6D you have no choice but to also block the j.D. Honestly, I'm surprised more Ragna players don't abuse this.

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And if you mistime your 5A and the 6D CH's you well...yeah, I don't really think it's worth it unless you know 100% sure he's going to do it xD

God I hate this matchup :<

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lt does feel pretty impossible. theres (almost literally!) nothing tsu can do that ragna cant do better. it makes me wonder why you guys even stick with her, lol. you guys are clearly getting the short end of the stick.

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Character loyalty. That and I don't really like any other characters in this game all that much, litchi and platinum are alright but that's about it.

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