[CSE] Rachel vs. Litchi

[gli]

Summary:

Fullscreen:

Midscreen:

Pressure:

[[SpA]Relentless]

6B(m) =

I'll never understand why Arcsys gives the best poke of a character the best proration and properties.

Summoning in this MU: No.

Rushing down with high/low: No.

Wat do?

[Herbal Grey]

6b is a powerful tool against Rachel, but it's not infallible. If you predict it, right when they're about to do it you can winded 3c right under it...this also option selects them out of itsu if they like using it. I also have super jumped over and lvl2 j.2c punished it a couple times, but I'm almost positive winded 3c is a legit punish.

Also, as far as mix up is concerned, yeah that sucks. I mostly go for stagger pressure, grab/trm, and unusual uses of 4b.

[[SpA]Relentless]

I tested around a bit and winded 3C does indeed go under 6B(m). If you mistime it badly it will trade though, because the hitbox is bigger up close due to Litchi sticking her foot out as well.

What's interesting is that Rachel can actually crouch under 6B(m) at a little less than max range (and ofc farther) - but only if she's not crouchblocking (really just holding 2 instead of 1). I suppose if you pay enough attention you could switch from crouchblocking to crouching on reaction to avoid the stick. It is possible to do 5D, 3C after the stick whiffed to punish them, however the timing is pretty strict. That said, I don't think any Litchi will guard low immediately after 6B(m) unless you give them a good reason to, so this should work well for tripping them to keep them honest.

i don't think that this is tactic that should be relied upon, but it's something to keep in mind.

Winded j.2C will really only work on prediction because 6B(m) is a great jump catch tool. i think it's kind of risky to guess with it because if they use itsuu instead, they can snipe you out of the air. 3C is probably the better choice overall.

Mixup-wise I think I should use fuzzy guards more. They work alright against her too.

[Herbal Grey]

my match with lk seems to make rachels think i know something special about this matchup...i don't (i don't even know her move inputs, so bear with me) but here's my general strategy

most of my hits don't come from mix-ups in this matchup. it's more about spacing. push her closer and closer to the corner and force her to approach you, because her approach is relatively weak unless she has spinny staff oki (which is actually pretty punishable if you predict it correctly). most of my wind is spent on movement and zoning, not mixups (since i find j.b 9 j.b j.a etc fuzzy guard to be a relatively low reward for the use of wind, especially since it's not THAT hard to block)

if litchi approaches from the air with any sort of airdash, your first option should be to 6a her HARD. make her not approach you from the air. eventually, she will start throwing the staff at you from the air, but it's still relatively a lot better to get hit by that on your whiffed 6a than to let litchi get pressure on you, and most of the time, litchi will just get hit by your 6a (it becomes a yomi game after litchi realizes how godlike 6a is). your options off her 6b are already discussed by spa, so i'll skip that option. any ground option other than 6b can be a-lobelia'd with ease (preferably with 5d). another strong option against litchi is the triangle jump => jump or super jump then 1/3d and j.b or j.c (j.c counter hit is your 5k friend. if there's one combo you want to practice, it's that one)...... once you've convinced litchi how difficult it is to approach rachel without spinny staff oki, she will retreat to full screen

at full screen, remember that pumpkin disappears if you block, so litchi can do away with your pumpkin relatively simply by forcing you to block the spinny staff. however, if george is out, the staff as it spins toward you will hit george and go past you which is a big deal if you have pumpkin summoned (or you can summon pumpkin as she throws the staff at you), so in general at full screen, i tend to go for george summoning before pumpkin IF IT IS SAFE. using george and lobelias is a good way to push litchi farther back til she reaches the corner.

once you've backed litchi close to the corner, she can't run from your pressure anymore...do NOT let her back to midscreen by super jump and air dashing over you. be patient. eventually she will be forced into george block stun or get hit with random pumpkin or lobelias trying to get out.

experiment with rachel's triangle jump in a variety of situations and you will see that you can catch litchi in a number of things. one of my favorite rachel moves currently is jump 3d 9! j.b, which can catch litchi placing the staff on the ground from nearly full screen.

ohh, and as far as blocking is concerned, remember to not barrier guard her swinging overhead so that you can punish it, but beware that smart litchis will rapid it if they have the heat. when litchi does that charge move that places the staff on the ground (which breaks a primer), you can ib the second hit and go on the attack with 5a, NOT 2a...2a will trade with litchi's 2a. don't forget to bait her dp on wakeup with REGULAR block, not barrier and punish it with 5b 6b 5d 3c for 4k if you have wind. make her scared to dp. or if you have george oki, you can just cat chair on their wakeup and break a primer while also option selecting them out of gold burst if they do that.

pressure as far as mixups go has already been discussed.

call me out on anything i misinformed

[Sakaku]

Didn't know you could zone Litchi that easily. Thanks dave, lol. I was completely lost in this MU before. x:

Can we somehow get a DP safe setup in the corner? Or do we just have to bait it? I know that 2C works but people can jump out before it even hits.

[Rele]

Or throw you :<

[Herbal Grey]

Didn't know you could zone Litchi that easily. Thanks dave, lol. I was completely lost in this MU before. x:

Can we somehow get a DP safe setup in the corner? Or do we just have to bait it? I know that 2C works but people can jump out before it even hits.

lol, it sounds easier than it is, but when you play correctly, it is easier lol.

after playing this mu more, if litchi is running away to throw the staff at you all the time, don't be afraid to do full-screen iad's with 5d to catch her putting down the staff. but remember, this is only for litchis that are playing over-defensively, not for litchis that are aggressive (so, not really against lk). as usual, adjust to your opponent's playstyle...if litchi plays keep away, you have to zone more aggressively and if she rushes recklessly, whack her with lobelias. most of the time, i'd say i'm trying to convince litchi to rush me and stop hitting me with the staff.

a-lobelia should be dp-safe if you time and space it correctly, which is what i usually do. stay a relatively large distance away and throw a-lobelia at them. be ready for late/non tech punish. if they start doing it several times, summon pumpkin and keep 3c'ing them to keep them honest (if 3c whiffs whack them with pumpkin)

[Kujikawa]

It's worth mentioning that Rachel can wind tech out of corner Kokushi (Thirteen Orphans) and escape. This is only if Litchi uses the 6A > 5A > Kokushi ender.

Litchi is able to change her ender to dash 6C(1) > 4Kote > 6C(2) > Kokushi meaning Rachel is unable to wind tech out and therefore being forced to block.

[TD]

l wonder if theres a way out of that setup. i'll be doing some testing tonight, because l really like denying litchi any sort of oki.

[TD]

if you suspect the staff crossup at any point (jcable normal, IAD, j.2d; she can do it from 5b, 5a and 2a), you can punish it only if you jump back before the first hit, its not air unblockable. what will happen is you will ib the first hit and the second hit (the low) will whiff, giving you enough time to punish with 5b for big damage.

definitely try to always do this on reaction. on block the crossup is +19, and on hit it leads to big damage.

l havent tested what would happen if she rc's the first hit, or if there are other ways out of this (i'm thinking late as possible 2c, or dash forward, perhaps even late backdash or td with meter). i'll be testing

[TD]

some more stuff

the safest way for litchi to deal with george is by using 2d set four winds. two hits kill him (it does 4 hits in 2d set). if you see her use it near george and you arent in its path, resummon george right away. four winds will whiff.

dp safe setup is to wind pumpkin at them while barrier blocking. not as effective here since we cant mixup litchi well yet but useful occasionally. also beats backdash and jump. crossup also beats dp but loses to the latter options

mixup between triangle jump/j. 236a/b/summon in neutral. on the ground, a pre-emptive 6cd beats all her staff normals, particularly 3c and 2b. 236ad wont beat these two as reliably so use accordingly.

[Zoular]

Something I've been thinking about, doing high-lows on Litchi's besides the obvious small hurtbox issue she has, I find it more annoying when the Litchis I play are jump happy. If we ever go for the high-low mix up, I'm thinking j.C could be a good option instead of j.B if you expect them to jump. It'll catch the start up of their jump so you could either land a j.C on a standing opponent giving you the 5B > 3Dj.B > j.C into corner route. Or, if you have heat, j.C > 2Ddj.C > j.C > 2Ddj.C > BBL.