[CSE] Rachel vs. Relius

[gli]

Fullscreen

• Watch out for Val Lyra (214B). Definitely will use this against you if you are going to zone.
  
  
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  Tidbits
  
  • During Duo Bios (236236D), the Rhapsody of Memories type Distortion, he can cross-up you up like Carl can using Led Ley (236A, his dodge move).
    

[swordiris]

This doesn't look like a good matchup for Rachel. From what I've seen zoning is pretty difficult. Use rushdown.

Also be extremely careful because his rushdown is godly.

And don't sling a TD at him unless you know for sure it will land because he can just use 214B to hit you in the middle of the move and make it whiff.

[Judgemastar]

Right away I can tell you you don't want to throw out anything while on the ground with relius free or when ignis is anywhere near you. You'll get nailed. Which is extremely obvious but you can bait ignis by feigning a landing. When she's low on meter your risk factor decreases a bit.

[swordiris]

Also if you can predict lyra while you are summoning You can wind in and get a free combo.

[[SpA]Relentless]

So far I think this matchup is in Rachel's favor.

During neutral you mainly have to watch out for two moves (I'm not sure about move names, sorry):

1. Ignis rolls towards you in wheel-shape (Val Lyra?): This move has a guard-point against projectiles so it will go through pumpkin and lobelias. It also destroys George. This is your main problem in this MU. It's possible to poke her with normals like 6B during the move, but I wouldn't overdo it.

2. Ignis appears behind you and attacks (Val Tus?): This prevents you from safely summoning at fullscreen. Treat this like Lambda's 4D: If you see Relius doing it on prediction, winded IAD.

Due to these moves, you mainly want to stay in the air in this MU. Luckily he cannot do a lot against superjump > pumpkin summon afaik. It's also pretty much free to wind it onto him (at least I haven't been countered yet). From there you can pressure him easily. j.C is a godly air to air, as usual.

Relius w/o meter is free on wakeup. His only invincible move at this point is his dodge move. It's completely invincible to strikes from frame 1 to 33, but has a total of 37f animation. You can bait it by starting your pressure with 2A. If he did the dodge, you can visually confirm your 2A whiffed, then tack a nice CH combo onto him during the recovery. It's also vulnerable to throws (and projectiles if I'm not mistaken).

If he has meter, you have to watch out for his gear super since it will give him a free unblockable setup.

All his normals aren't really that great. 5B is his best poke and j.B and j.C are good jumpins (j.B can also crossup), I even had j.C clash with 6A once from farther away. His 2C is a fairly good anti air (and fatal counters), but a bit slow (think of it like Arakune's 5C) and has long recovery on whiff. Apart from that, his normals are average at best.

Just play this MU really lame, and you should be good to go.

[swordiris]

Lyra's the behind one and Lanto is the forward one

Val Tus is when Ignis double slashes.

Sorry if i sounded picky.

[TD]

5a stops lanto lol

l wonder if you get to keep you gatling options when you hit ignis (similar to hitting nirvana or george)

[[SpA]Relentless]

Pretty sure you do. Poking Ignis with 6B, then canceling into frog/pumpkin might actually be a safe way to summon.

[Rele]

This MU is actually a lot harder than I thought at first. Can't use any special safely at all, frog is almost useless at neutral game because of the wheel, and the pumpkin in general is as well cause the puppet guards everything. The puppet also has projectile armor on everything (no lobelias)...

and I dare you block Val Tus, it's +forever, and even worse if you happen to get hit by it cause it prorates extremely well.

You need good reactions vs Relius, he's definitely the one that sets the pace here.

I found I was a bit more successful by completely neglecting any summons during neutral game and just rushing in with winded movement, and only summoning during knockdown, but it's still not a very consistent way to win. Any tips?

[kotokot]

try to beat any ignis summon attempts.

[TD]

super jump, then double jump, start summoning/chucking lobelias. you're taking to the air where relius is less capable of controlling. pumpkin at this height will come down at angle , avoiding ignis completely if relius committed to a puppet attack. there isnt much relius can do against her floaty superjump, none of his normals hit above him, j.236c is situational. you really only need to watch for sj.8d

[Rele]

I actually tried this several times, he can just airthrow you. The vertical range is retarded.

[TD]

l see. have you tried a more reactionary approach to his neutral game? not overextending, waiting for one of his puppet attacks. 5a stops lanto(214a), jump into w/e stops lyra(214b), you have enough time to get out of the way during tus(214c). this way you can quickly dismiss her/ get her in recovery enough to rush him down.

[Rele]

I forced myself to play reactionary but quickly fell into old patterns cause it didn't work out (reactions not good enough outside of blocking mixups). I'll try your suggestions against 214 series (which were indeed my main problem) next time, thanks.

[Chazmobile]

Interesting bit of info but throw breaks cause Ignis to be dismissed into slow regen mode, regardless of who breaks it. So if you really feel like you need Ignis gone you can green/purple throw to either:

A. He doesn't tech and you get free damage and Ignis is dismissed and in slow regen.

B. He techs and he is left without Ignis (and she is in slow regen) where he is at severe disadvantage.

The main rule of thumb is that you want to force him to use as much Ignis gauge as possible. He is really quite bad without her and she is made of papier mache to add onto this. The more times you force him to commit to an Ignis move the better. Once you get in on him and he doesn't have Ignis out he's pretty darn free as he only has one truly quick reversal that's got a crappy hitbox, does low damage and is super punishable on block, plus it costs 50 meter!

His mix-up is kinda meh and his normals are relatively sub-par save for 5b/2b and to an extent his jumping normals. Honestly his anti-air is pretty crappy, bait it and you can punish it for free, it also has a tiny hitbox compared to the size of the move and you can't really confirm it into anything safely non-ch.

/Reliuspains

Edit: After playing a good few matches with Sakaku I can say that it's in his favour UNTIL you knock him down. He has no answers to Rachel on wakeup and the safest thing he can do to get out is CA with 50 meter, and that can be baited. Seriously Knockdown>Relius' everything

[TD]

what other moves will reliably stop lanto? 5a does the trick but l get countered all too often (l usually lose at this point, hes in and l refuse to block his shit. 2c ftw!). i'm thinking 6b but it would have to be just right. 6c might work and on success you can summon, but the hurtbox extends just outside the hitbox. this is one of those matches where l wish 5b kept its physical property lol

also, like carl, you want to 3c for oki w/ a summon. but, instead of 3c, do 3[c] to stop led ley and get a big combo anywhere. it also has the liberty of stuffing backdash, jump, and forward roll. once you have his respect, go nuts. if he has 50 heat, choose between baiting/punishing gear super.

[Rele]

Do you remember how in CS1, you couldn't simply AA every character in every situation?

It's the same with Lanto. You simply cannot stop in reliably in every situation. Either block it (it does no harm, since it doesn't give enough frame advantage for Relius to rush you down from far range - you lose pumpkin and frog at most (losing frog hurts more, wind it towards him asap) or dodge it. It doesn't go fullscreen. You can also jump over it, but remember he can then use Ignis' brio-like normal to fish you out of the air. Relius is a super-shitty MU for Rachel.

[TD]

l know about the distanced lanto being less frame advantage, yet it never seems small enough to jump out/mash. relius is usually not far behind with a 5b or something and l get hit... l should really learn to block him, it really isnt so hard after all.

and l agree this MU is harder than l thought. at least the air is safe if you can stay away from 4d, airthrow etc. superjump is really good still for getting out the minions. l believe poles are the best zoning tool in the MU, use 236a and j.236a often to approach/zone when you feel its safe. dont even try to kill ignis just go for the husband and try to get in ASAP.

[Minutes]

Highlight of today's match v Relius: activate BBL at the same time he activates that Ignis punchy thing; Ignis carries me away but BBL kills him <3

[Venussail91]

I am having SUCH trouble with the move where Ignis slashes three times while moving towards you, especially when cornered. I keep losing barrier and guard primers something wicked when he uses this for pressure. Any tips?

[TD]

Val tus can be super jumped on startup no matter where you are. 6b/2a/5c/6c stop it (any physical hit will hit ignis out of it but these have some extra utility vs this move specifically). On block don't barrier, relius is independent of ignis and it will have no effect on him. If you have to block it, be in the air before it hits so you won't have to take a mixup attempt. You won't have to block it often if you super jump.