[CSE] Valkenhayn Video Thread (Updated: 6/25/13)

[Kiba]

8/4

Kiba (VK) vs Ixisnaugus (MU)

Kiba (VK) vs Hexanoid (LA) - To 7:20

Ixisnaugus (MU) vs Kiba (VK) - This an hour long brace yourselves.

Team Tournament

Kiba (VK) vs Ixisnaugus (MU)

Hexanoid (LA) vs Kiba (VK)

[Shyn]

I made a mini cmv showing off a couple things. I didn't want anything that was in other videos already, so it's really short. Enjoy! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q78zwVrdQtI

[Kiba]

Very nice stuff man thanks for that. Really gotta integrate some of that into my game.

[Dreize]

Shyn with that optimal 6C repeat proration tech.

I really liked this combo, by the way.

Nice job, and nice choice of music as well.

[Shyn]

That was a surprise seeing my video on the front page. Thanks Kiba. :P

Yeah that one might be my favorite too, Dreize. The one I did on Noel at the end does more damage (6652 w/o double super), but that one is actually pretty easy once you learn it, and I think very doable in a tournament setting. The 236C>2C>j.214B thing is actually possible even without fatal off good starters, but it's kinda hard.

[Kiba]

No problem Shyn.

4/16

Kid (JI) vs Kiba (VK)

Ixisnaugus (MU) vs Kiba (VK)

Pressure needs work, I'm still too impatient and stubborn, and I still do 5C > 236C on block because I'm bad with confirms.

[Dreize]

The 6B FC combo that you performed on Noel did 6309 damage without the Sturm Wolf + tk.Konig Flug ender. Though, you may have been referring to how you could have extended the combo from 2C into something such as 2C > j.B > dj.B > j.C or whatever if you weren't forced to shorten it at 2C > Double Distortion in order to land the initial Sturm Wolf after the 2C. I personally didn't test anything related to that combo, as I didn't find it to be particularly interesting.

Though, I must admit. I do like the 6B FC combo that you performed on Bang. Perhaps I will use it.

Regarding it's use in a tournament setting, I do believe that the combo is relatively practical. The problem is, some people may not want to bother with your combo (which does 6432 damage, 82 heat gain) when they could just do something like 6B FC > 2C > 6C > 2C > tk.214B > w[j.236A > 236A > 236B > j.236B > 7C] > j.D > j.C > 2A > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.B > j.A] > 5D > j.B > dj.B > j.C (6214 damage, 70 heat gain) which is much easier in comparison and grants a very similar reward. Additionally, the 236C > 6D > 5D > 2C > j.214B link may contain underlying character specific elements due to weird/odd/different aerial hitboxes (I wouldn't know for certain, as I only just tested the combo on Ragna moments ago).

I guess it is a combo video after all, and these things aren't usually meant to showcase practical combos. But alas, I do intend to use this combo during my play (or at the very least, for when I'm messing around). I will be removing the 2C > j.D > [j.B > 3C > j.A] > 5D portion of the combo and I intend to replace it with 2C > j.D > w[j.B > j.A] > 5D as there is no way that I will be wasting more wolf meter for a needless w[3C] command dash when I can omit it and garner the exact same results (though I will have to execute the 2C > 236A while the opponent is at a higher height after the 6C wall-bounce because of this, which is fine). The combo does 7552 damage with the Konig Flug ender as well, which is really great..

In short, this is me attempting to thank you for the interesting combo. So, thank you. And please do try to forgive me for contriving a rant in a thread where it clearly doesn't belong. I initially came here to view Kiba's Valkenhayn play and figured that I'd respond to you too.

Ah well.

[Shyn]

Ahahahha. NP. Yeah, most of that video isn't really meant to be super practical (Even if it is optimal in some situations). And you're welcome. :P btw, it is pretty much universal, iirc.

[Kiba]

I play here at 45:23. I know I did some questionable things, I was trying to act on my reactions, and I wasn't completely solid there.

[Dreize]

49:34.

Hah.

[Kiba]

I play here at 49:27 and here at 58s and 14:30.

Please excuse my wolf dash ins during pressure. It's really an accident, and it's annoying for that to keep happening. I'm still consistently messing up my TKs in combos....

[Dreize]

Don't have time to post much right now, but good shit with the wolf [j.A] IOH stuff.

Edit: Also, I laughed pretty hard at the commentators trying to make sense of your accidental w[6C]'ing at 2:47 in this video.

[Kiba]

Heh.

Thanks anyway, I think my Valk is a lot more stronger this time around but hopefully the matches I provide from here on will be better.

Kiba (VK) vs IxisNaugus (MU)

At the same time, I uploaded some matches and though they are old, they still help.

4/5

Mato (TG) vs Zekuso

DAISUL (NO) vs Zekuso

4/29

Zekuso vs Udon (HZ)

Zekuso vs Isa (PT)

Zekuso vs Konan (TS)

Hima vs Nata Kishi (HK)

Hima vs Supo (AR)

Hima vs Tochigin (VK)

Souji (AR) vs Tochigin (VK)

[Shyn]

Uhh. I guess I'll post some matches here... The quality isn't worthy of the OP, though.

Spark (HK) vs Shyn (VK) My match at 3:28:30. (BB starts at about 2:45:00) In my defense for dropped combos, there was lag on the streaming setup... And choke factor. XD

Shyn (VK) vs Vista (HZ,NO) Starts at 4:30. He is just learning Hazama, so not the best competition here.

Shyn (VK) vs Huey253 Starts at 1:00. (The stream happened to die right when Vista/Huey switched.)

As an added bonus, you get to hear my bad commentary (well if you watch other matches in the tourney) and me being a bitch about Huey's Ragna. XD (That char makes me so mad. T.T)

Feel free to tell me how bad I am. (ie. criticism welcome)

BTW Kiba, I caught your matches vs Kid on stream. I was rooting for you! :D

[Dreize]

I watched it all, Shyn. I have quite a few points/questions to ask/make but here are the main 3:

1. Is there any reason behind you not using w[5A/j.A > 5B > IAD > j.B > 3C > j.A] > 5D > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A] > dj.D > j.C combos? They are extremely good for wolf meter regen time and they don't use too much wolf meter either. I witnessed plenty of situations wherein you could have benefited from using them instead of the w[j.A > 236B > j.236B > 7C] > j.D > 2A > 2C > 6C, etc route (which is kinda finicky in and of itself).

2. There were also quite a few situations wherein you had plenty of meter and could have rapid cancelled 236A in order to semi-safely apply further pressure but instead you opted to just do nothing and jump away. Also, I noticed a few raw nacht jagers and blocked nacht rosen's into 6D pressure. Risky stuff.

3. Instead of mainly doing 5B > j.C > rapid > j.C I'd suggest using 2A x N > j.C > rapid > j.C more, as it's harder to see coming. Additionally, you should also try incorporating certain throw/grab set-ups into your play such as 2A > 5D > w[236D] (really hard to see) and w[5A x N > 5C] > 5D > Throw.

You're not bad by any stretch of the means, and I was actually really interested in seeing how you play.

Also,

"All Ragna players are scumbags"

I died, hah.

At the same time, I uploaded some matches and though they are old, they still help.

Sweet, thanks. Zekuso/Hima play is always appreciated, and it's honestly much easier to access via youtube as opposed to nico.

[Shyn]

Thanks for the feedback! :D

1. There are a lot of times when I should probably do the w[j.B>3C>j.A>5D]>2C>etc route when I don't. Particularly when I don't have enough wolf meter to do much else. However, I believe w[j.A>5B>236B] is almost always better than w[j.A>5B>IAD>j.B>etc] against the characters that the j.C>2A>2C>6C will work on. I don't consider it finicky against a large chunk of the cast. EDIT: I mean midscreen, ofc. It works against the whole cast in the corner.

From pretty much anywhere past midscreen, you can do 6C and have them hit the corner, which leads into either 6B or 236A. In both situations, you get back all the wolf meter used, and usually you end with full wolf meter. From all spacings, it does more damage. Furthermore, if you are very far from the corner, it gives you ample time to adjust. (eg. w[6C>j.B>j.B>5B], 3 konig to go back into other corner, etc)

One place I definitely don't use w[j.B>3C>j.A] enough is off w[5A] near the corner. I usually end up doing w[j.AAA>j.236A>etc] which uses more wolf meter and isn't as good. Just bad confirms on my part.

2. If you always rapid cancel 236A it becomes a much weaker tool and you can waste a lot of meter. But I think you're probably right about me not doing it enough. Would need to watch it again myself.

I know how you feel about raw nacht jager. I agree it's terrible to do it a lot, and most new players do it way too much. However, I think it does have a place, if used sparingly. It comes out fairly fast, and has a much better hitbox than 5C for a lot of situations. I find it particularly useful in certain spacings where the opponent is approaching me in the air... Hard to explain exactly. It is a much safer option than wolf transform or 6A. Also, I usually only do it when I have 50 meter.

As for blocked rosen into 6D. That's another thing that I think is sometimes worth it. Many characters can't win at high level if they always choose the safest option. (I consider Valk one of them) Yes, it can get mashed out. But I don't play against people who regularly mash. And I don't do it very often. The few times I do it, it usually leads into some more pressure for free. Since I often 7D blocked rosen into any number of patterns, it makes it harder for people to confidently punish 6D. I may have been going overboard in the video, though. Again, will need to rewatch. EDIT: Rewatched. Yeah I did it too much.

3. Yeah, I wasn't very good with my rising j.C's yesterday. Very valid point. As for 2A>5D>w[236D], I actually do that all the time. It just didn't come up in the video, for some reason.

Thanks again for the criticisms. And please do counterpoint to any BS I may be spewing. Let's beat those scumbag Ragnas together! (^o^)丿

[Kiba]

Thanks for showing us Shyn, and just like Dreize I have been really curious to how you played! I watched up to your matches with Huey and I have a few minor things to say:

Against Vista's Hazama, when you blocked his wakeup reversal, you could've strengthened your punish by using 5B CH > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 4 Cannons. Also, is there any particular reason why you don't use the various wolf enders? They could be more useful rather than ending with the regular combo sometimes.

I really like how you use w[j.A > 5B > 236B > j.236B > 7C > j.D >] j.C > 2A > 2C > 6C when your near the corner. It's something that I need to be doing much more since I usually revert to the w[5A/j.A > 5B > IAD > j.B > 3C > j.A] > 5D > 2C > 6C. Dreize has covered the other points which is why I don't have much to say, but other than that, your Valk is good man. Keep it up.

BTW Kiba, I caught your matches vs Kid on stream. I was rooting for you! :D

Thanks man! Really appreciate it!

Sweet, thanks. Zekuso/Hima play is always appreciated, and it's honestly much easier to access via youtube as opposed to nico.

No problem man. I'll probably upload a few more later on. Enjoy.

[Shyn]

Against Vista's Hazama, when you blocked his wakeup reversal, you could've strengthened your punish by using 5B CH > 6C > 2C > 6B > 2C > tk.214B > 4 Cannons.

I don't remember what I did. But I imagine it wasn't intentional. Sometimes when I am in a situation where I can get a huge punish I like get excited and spaz out and do stupid things. XD What I would have gone for is 6B. Is there not enough time for that?

Also, is there any particular reason why you don't use the various wolf enders? They could be more useful rather than ending with the regular combo sometimes.

Yeah, that's something I feel like I need to incorporate into my game. The thing is, I guess I don't really get what the advantage is. (Other than the safe jump setup, himmel, and 6B setup.) If I want to do human stuff, I love the w[j.A>dj.D]>j.C ender. It just seems far superior to anything else with all the OS madness you can do. If I want to do wolf stuff, j.B>j.B>j.C gives me enough time to transform anyway. I guess if there's too much proration for j.B>j.B>j.C then I might go for a wolf ender....

Like I'm pretty sure there's stuff I'm missing here, caus people go for wolf enders even when not doing one of the setups I mentioned. In any case I really like that Himmel OS and should go for it more.

[Kiba]

I don't remember what I did. But I imagine it wasn't intentional. Sometimes when I am in a situation where I can get a huge punish I like get excited and spaz out and do stupid things. XD What I would have gone for is 6B. Is there not enough time for that?

Yeah you can do 5B CH > 6B but I believe that would lead to the inferior combo. I think you can do 5B CH > 6B > 5C > tk.214B but for that to work you need to be really close to your opponent otherwise the tk.214B would whiff, making it a little inconsistent. 5B CH > 6B is the way to go midscreen though.

Yeah, that's something I feel like I need to incorporate into my game. The thing is, I guess I don't really get what the advantage is. (Other than the safe jump setup, himmel, and 6B setup.) If I want to do human stuff, I love the w[j.A>dj.D]>j.C ender. It just seems far superior to anything else with all the OS madness you can do. If I want to do wolf stuff, j.B>j.B>j.C gives me enough time to transform anyway. I guess if there's too much proration for j.B>j.B>j.C then I might go for a wolf ender....

Like I'm pretty sure there's stuff I'm missing here, caus people go for wolf enders even when not doing one of the setups I mentioned. In any case I really like that Himmel OS and should go for it more.

The downfall of the setups is that they usually require the opponent to tech, otherwise you're not really making the most out of it. Another setup you could use is the one I stole from Zekuso which is one of the reasons I uploaded those matches haha. He uses the cannons into j.C and rather than following up with the 2A > 5B > 2C, he uses j.D > j.B. If they opponent techs after j.C they will have to block j.B and then you're free to do whatever you want, being a command grab, or IOH j.A. If they don't tech, j.B will blue beat and then they will still have to face your mixup so you're not really losing out on much here.

[Shyn]

Yeah you can do 5B CH > 6B but I believe that would lead to the inferior combo.

Oh, I meant 6B FC. Not 5B>6B.

[Kiba]

Oh fair enough. There isn't much time for that unfortunately, and sorry, to clear things up, I was referring to Hazama's Gashoukyaku, not Hotenjin. If that caused confusion, sorry man.

[Shyn]

Oh! Yeah I immediately thought Hotenjin, haha. Oops. Yeah in that case I think I would have gone for 5C>6C if I wasn't being a spaz. I actually do 5C a lot when I could go for something much better.... (Too many failed attempts at 2C when I was starting out spawned that habit for me, I think, haha)

[Dreize]

Not sure why you would even do 5B CH > 6C in the first place when you can just do 5C CH > 6C. Also, 6B FC works if you don't barrier guard it; if you do you'll be pushed too far away.

Edit: Oops, Kiba wasn't talking about hotenjin.

The w[5B > IAD > j.B > 3C > j.A], etc route is really great for when you're low on wolf meter (or for when you get a w[5A] confirm]. I used to use the w[j.A > 236B > j.236B > 7C] > j.D route midscreen a lot more but it just felt finicky against certain cast members. I still regularly use it in the corner when I have the meter, though.

Yeah, Shyn, I saw that w[5A > j.A > j.A > j.A > j.236A], etc stuff and was left a tad confused.

Eh, I disagree with rapid cancelling 236A being bad if used too much. I mean, it's not like we really need our meter for anything else aside from the finisher+offensive purposes. I guess if you use nacht jager a lot it can at times start becoming a waste of meter, but I try to use nacht jager sparingly.

Raw nacht jager is just...bad. It has the same start-up as 5C (but I totally know what you mean about if sorta being an anti-air). The only time that I'll really use it when playing coherently is when I have 50 meter + I need to catch up to someone while midscreen on their wake-up. Other than that, I mainly use w[5B] for anti-air purposes alongside the occasional 2C.

As for Nacht Rosen > 6D stuff, I'm personally not a fan. I just feel as though it's a bad habit that would be widely exposed at higher levels of play. I mean, sure; I can get away with it against lots of people but by doing so I'd just be reinforcing a bad habit.

As for you forgetting about 2A > 5D > w[236D] stuff in the video, I can definitely empathize with that. There are so many things that have slipped my mind during practical play, it's unreal.

Thanks again for the criticisms. And please do counterpoint to any BS I may be spewing. Let's beat those scumbag Ragnas together! (^o^)丿

Hey, no problem man; you're a member of this little wolf pack that we've got going on here. Feel free to post footage of yourself anytime you'd like and I'd be more than happy to view/critique it.

The downfall of the setups is that they usually require the opponent to tech, otherwise you're not really making the most out of it.

Definitely. If my opponent doesn't tech I end up getting really disappointed, hah.

My favorite ender is easily the j.D > w[j.A] > dj.D > j.C ender. Though, unlike you and Shyn I usually end up jumping in the 7 direction as opposed to the 9 direction because I find that it's more stable on some of the smaller hitboxes such as Noel's.

Additionally, you and Shyn both used the wolf break [j.A] IOH. I'm jealous, hah. If only I could do it on pad consistently. If only.

[Shyn]

Just to be clear: The rozen 6D thing is not at all like...a standard part of my play. I never mean for rozen to get blocked ('less it's guard crush! >:D ), and when it happens on accident I usually 7D to escape. I was just saying that once in a blue moon you can go for a 6D. I don't know why it came up so much in the video. Sometimes you just let a bad habit happen a lot one day, know what I mean? heh....

BTW I would recommend trying to do j.C in the 9 direction. I totally understand what you mean about some hitboxes being annoying, but you lose a pretty huge amount of the strength of that ender jumping away like that.

[Dreize]

Sometimes you just let a bad habit happen a lot one day, know what I mean? heh....

Yeah, hah.

BTW I would recommend trying to do j.C in the 9 direction. I totally understand what you mean about some hitboxes being annoying, but you lose a pretty huge amount of the strength of that ender jumping away like that.

Oh? I do it like this. I jump in the 7 direction, turn into wolf and j.A, then double jump in the 9 direction and turn into human while j.C'ing. I land pretty much point black in front of my opponent.