Digital Watches Report post Posted April 11, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcxOutQHTU decent match vid of a subpar I-No beating Axl. Er... if you're going to call that I-No subpar... The Axl is very poor himself. I see easy combos dropped, random housous, a complete hesitance to try to AA I-No, and him having a very hard time blocking. I suspect that that player is very inexperienced, as he seems to not know what he needs to do in most situations. No offense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feri Report post Posted April 11, 2008 The I-no player is fine. Are you saying the standard I-no player is better than this? The Axel player relied on too many random counters and didn't throw out anywhere near enough AA's at I-no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Honnou Report post Posted April 11, 2008 why show those vids? GGXX/ Koichi vs Dennou (IIRC) was really good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 11, 2008 why show those vids? GGXX/ Koichi vs Dennou (IIRC) was really good I agree that example matches should be between capable players... but AC is a lot different for both characters, enough so that I think slash vids aren't so good as examples. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucklemyshoe Report post Posted April 11, 2008 I couldn't find a better AC match. AYM had a match with Axl but didn't win so I didn't want to post it. (you can clearly see where he messed up) I tried a few things out in training mode last night. I noticed that Chemical Love poke combos really work like shit on Axl. You need to be at just the right distance and alot of the time a VCL will completely wiff. If you have the tension. HCL > FRC 66 > JS > UF nets 174 damage. (not too good) Heres 2 throw combos and another combo I tested out. http://www.mediafire.com/?dm109fd993m The I-no player is fine. Are you saying the standard I-no player is better than this? Yes I am. I haven't seen too many vids of people from this board but of those I've seen (you, honnou, chaz) I can say everyone is better than that I-No. That I-No got a F&*&ing STBT CH luanch and let it go completely to waste. If he would have turned it into a combo he would have probably won that round right there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 11, 2008 I couldn't find a better AC match. AYM had a match with Axl but didn't win so I didn't want to post it. (you can clearly see where he messed up) ...Lulz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feri Report post Posted April 11, 2008 Yes I am. I haven't seen too many vids of people from this board but of those I've seen (you, honnou, chaz) I can say everyone is better than that I-No. That I-No got a F&*&ing STBT CH luanch and let it go completely to waste. If he would have turned it into a combo he would have probably won that round right there. If I show you countless amounts of dropped combos in the corner will you believe me? I swear I was dropping them so much in the latest casuals I opted a few times to AD.h > land > 5p and throw the tech. Totally budgeting for my uncool mistakes! and dude.... UF shouldn't be part of a BnB combo unless it is absolutely needed. I see it as an expensive version of I-nos FB to tack on the damage when you cant be bothered thinking/inputting (when its used in combos). I'm totally seeing other 'respectable' I-no players all over here dropping combos, not just a few combos either. Anyways, this Axel mid screen combo might get you to the corner that you need so desperately. It also doubles as the combo to go to when you need that tiny bit of tension to put you over. 5k/5s > 6p > hs > j.s > j.hs > HCL FRC AD > j.hs > S dive > combo of your choice. Corner throw combo (easier version for those who cant SJC flawlessly and never get accidental dives) 5s > jc > j.s > j.hs > p dive > AD > j.s > VCL fast fall > land > 5s > VCL > 5s > VCL. KDs and towards the end of this combo it becomes dangerous tech throw bait, 5s jc > deja vu. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucklemyshoe Report post Posted April 12, 2008 It's not that he drops combos that makes him a bad player it's that he doesn't go for any combos. I can understand if you fuck up. I fuck up too. No one is perfect, no matter how much you practice but that guy had alot of oppertunities to do far more than he did. It just seemed like he had a very small comfort zone and was afraid to do anything outside of his ideal situation. Also, you're 100% right about UF but that's just me. I love that move and use it every chance I get. (even when it does measily damage) I know theres alot of people who disagree and want to save tension when they play but I spend tension like no tomorrow. (I do save my burst though, lol) Oddly enough I'm rarely stuck in a situation besides the start of a round where I need tension but don't have it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 12, 2008 It's not that he drops combos that makes him a bad player it's that he doesn't go for any combos. I can understand if you fuck up. I fuck up too. No one is perfect, no matter how much you practice but that guy had alot of oppertunities to do far more than he did. It just seemed like he had a very small comfort zone and was afraid to do anything outside of his ideal situation. Also, you're 100% right about UF but that's just me. I love that move and use it every chance I get. (even when it does measily damage) I know theres alot of people who disagree and want to save tension when they play but I spend tension like no tomorrow. (I do save my burst though, lol) Oddly enough I'm rarely stuck in a situation besides the start of a round where I need tension but don't have it. In this matchup in particular, you need meter just to be able to block. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mynusdono Report post Posted April 12, 2008 In this matchup in particular, you need meter just to be able to block. luckily i play I-no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 13, 2008 luckily i play I-no. That's what I mean. I-No needs to faultless a lot in this match, so using meter for supers may not be very smart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feri Report post Posted April 13, 2008 Except Axel uses a bunch of frame traps that supers will beat, am I right? And you have to be frame perfect to just be safe from I-no's reversal supers I-no users Jumping up there with the intention of FD'ing Axel's pokes will NOT help you win... he doesn't lose absolutely anything for this, its perfectly safe for him. He could also make you lose more depending on your location. You have to keep making situations where if Axel guesses wrong you get in on him. Nothing wrong with backstepping (if your too close don't bother, attack/play reactively or you'll get snagged by moves into combos) to get to a safer note range if you see Axel sitting there waiting for you to hand him the match by hoverdashing/STBT. Don't be to fidgety when blocking Axel's oki. Look for 6h, crossup move, long ranged throw, 2h > D, tick throws when blocking his oki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucklemyshoe Report post Posted April 16, 2008 http://www.strokethebigtree.com/rtl_s_movies/Honnnorito/ go there, then 20th season. the 2nd file is a killer AC match between I-No and Axl. Much better example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 16, 2008 That I-No most definitely knows what he's doing, both in that matchup and just in general. However, I'm still not impressed by the Axl, though that's more a commentary on his defense (Particularly bursting. Lulz.) I'd actually like to use this video as an example for Axl players of what happens when you get too jumpy. What lost him the match seemed to be throwing things out pre-emptively when waiting and reacting or blocking would have not only gotten him out of a lot of situations, but also won him a lot of exchanges, for a lot of damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finkledoodoo Report post Posted April 17, 2008 That I-No most definitely knows what he's doing, both in that matchup and just in general. However, I'm still not impressed by the Axl, though that's more a commentary on his defense (Particularly bursting. Lulz.) I'd actually like to use this video as an example for Axl players of what happens when you get too jumpy. What lost him the match seemed to be throwing things out pre-emptively when waiting and reacting or blocking would have not only gotten him out of a lot of situations, but also won him a lot of exchanges, for a lot of damage. Why are you bothering us, we aren't the best players, but evidence seems to show that the match is in I-no's favor. Top axl's in japan, don't beat ten or koichi. American gg isn't as high calibur in the axl and i-no department, but once again, mynusdono vs axl (IN TOURNAMENT) = i-no win. everything you have said has been theory fighter up to now, and when we show proof, you slam on the axl. Well sorry if the top axls aren't up to your liking, maybe you should be better than them. Match vids of top I-no players are always vs top ranking opponents because anyone other than a pro gets raped by a pro I-no, period... If you want to say something, make it useful, this is the match-up thread (for I-no), not the axl is like totally gonna rape everything you do thread. In fact, you've denied everything that's been said about the match up that was positive about I-no, (where's your proof, btw.) Who do you play, your little sister? If you just want to argue, take that trash to axl's match-up thread... *edit* there are some spots in the thread where you gave good advice, I'll apologize about saying all you do is deny everything. sry... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Dude RELAX. If vids are posted they will always be reviewed. What the vid showed was: A)I-no doesn't really suffer if she's FDed. B)I-no has excellent mixups which work well on Axl because: -Axl lacks a fast get out of pressure move which in turn makes it easier to keep him in the corner. -FD doesn't really hurt I-no. -I-no has pokes that are faster than Axl's. -I-no has a great pressure game. C)That Axl player had a hard time blocking I-no since her mixup and pressure is strong. Hell I have a hard time blocking I-no as well as other many other players. D)Axl's pressure with his normals are killed with FD. As for match vids of top I-no players being always againt other top players... well that's why ASW nerfed her in the first place. Apparently since Koichi was beasting too hard they thought I-no was a bit too powerful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finkledoodoo Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Dude RELAX. If vids are posted they will always be reviewed. What the vid showed was: A)I-no doesn't really suffer if she's FDed. B)I-no has excellent mixups which work well on Axl because: -Axl lacks a fast get out of pressure move which in turn makes it easier to keep him in the corner. -FD doesn't really hurt I-no. -I-no has pokes that are faster than Axl's. -I-no has a great pressure game. C)That Axl player had a hard time blocking I-no since her mixup and pressure is strong. Hell I have a hard time blocking I-no as well as other many other players. D)Axl's pressure with his normals are killed with FD. As for match vids of top I-no players being always againt other top players... well that's why ASW nerfed her in the first place. Apparently since Koichi was beasting too hard they thought I-no was a bit too powerful. Well, they should have nerfed her execution difficulty as well, since they nerfed her rewards. But anyway, this isn't the thread for that, btw, since you mentioned koichi, I'll say that koichi still says that this match up is even... Don't ask me why, I'm not koichi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucklemyshoe Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Why are you bothering us, we aren't the best players, but evidence seems to show that the match is in I-no's favor. Top axl's in japan, don't beat ten or koichi. American gg isn't as high calibur in the axl and i-no department, but once again, mynusdono vs axl (IN TOURNAMENT) = i-no win. everything you have said has been theory fighter up to now, and when we show proof, you slam on the axl. Well sorry if the top axls aren't up to your liking, maybe you should be better than them. Match vids of top I-no players are always vs top ranking opponents because anyone other than a pro gets raped by a pro I-no, period... If you want to say something, make it useful, this is the match-up thread (for I-no), not the axl is like totally gonna rape everything you do thread. In fact, you've denied everything that's been said about the match up that was positive about I-no, (where's your proof, btw.) Who do you play, your little sister? If you just want to argue, take that trash to axl's match-up thread... *edit* there are some spots in the thread where you gave good advice, I'll apologize about saying all you do is deny everything. sry... Hey, I actually think his comments are helpful. Besides that, I have a money match with Digital Watches coming up and the more he talks, the more I understand what to expect from him. I can't speak for you but I prefer to research things before I make uneeded comments such as "Who do you play, your little sister?" http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Digital+Watches+%28AX%29&search_type= He's a pretty damn good Axel if I do say so myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Er... Finkledoodoo, if I've come off as dismissive, I apologize, but what I'm saying is that those matches, in my opinion, do not show "top" Japanese Axl players (I've actually mentioned at least two and a half names (Is it Nijiura? I honestly don't remember the name of the third guy) of ones that are much better to watch if you want to get an idea) and am only trying to be helpful. I'd love to play against Mynus to see if there's something I'm missing, but frankly, a lot of it comes down to "there just aren't that many Axl players out there." What I'm saying I'm getting from experience (Though I'll admit that the only I-No I've played since Evo is 9TNine) and I'd be glad to demonstrate what I mean. Meanwhile, I agree with a lot of the things being said: I-No CAN viably go for notes from outside of poking range, Axl has a hard time getting out of pressure games, etc. And of course I do not believe the match to be so bad that it's unwinnable by any means. I really don't understand the animosity, sir. Hatred Edge: A)I-no doesn't really suffer if she's FDed. Aside from the fact that she then has to redash in order to go for a low or throw option... B)I-no has excellent mixups which work well on Axl because: -Axl lacks a fast get out of pressure move which in turn makes it easier to keep him in the corner. True -FD doesn't really hurt I-no. I disagree, for the aforementioned reasons. -I-no has pokes that are faster than Axl's. True. -I-no has a great pressure game. True, though I'd still say it's not outstandingly good to the point where it affects this particular matchup. I-No has a good pressure game, but so do most characters, and the fact that Axl doesn't deal well with pressure is true against any character. The main thing is that people just need to learn that "block low, wait for overheads and block those on reaction" isn't viable against her. C)That Axl player had a hard time blocking I-no since her mixup and pressure is strong. Hell I have a hard time blocking I-no as well as other many other players. I don't mean to imply that the Axl player should have blocked everything the I-No did, it just seemed like he didn't really know what to do. I get this opinion not only from the fact that he got hit almost every time I-No approached, but also from the fact that he throws out a lot of normals for no good reason that get him punished (for example, the random dust in the corner, and various twitch 5Ps that allowed I-No to get in.) D)Axl's pressure with his normals are killed with FD. This is somewhat true, although the Axl in that video seems to be hesitant or unable to consistently use Rensen FRC, which would aid his pressure game a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teyah Report post Posted April 17, 2008 (I've actually mentioned at least two and a half names (Is it Nijiura? I honestly don't remember the name of the third guy) Do you mean Niiyama? Also, don't forget about this guy: A-cho announcer Kaykuu / Fire Mountain (Volcano?) ...Well he isn't all that great actually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Yeah! Niiyama, that's the guy. I THINK he's still good... But I'm sure Meru and Syuuto know their shit (although Syuuto can be a bit wacky sometimes... Wacky isn't a bad thing, though! ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finkledoodoo Report post Posted April 17, 2008 bucklemyshoe, I know who he is, he's beaten me already, (at evo friendlies) digital watches, If you were just giving facts, than I was wrong and I'm sorry. I just wanted true unbiased info on the match-up, and I thought you were just trying to whore the I-no players. end... Goodluck both of you... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Finkledoodoo Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Forget it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Ah, no worries. I really am only posting to get info out there, since it seems like there are very few people writing matchups that really have a lot of v. Axl experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mynusdono Report post Posted April 17, 2008 Why are you bothering us, we aren't the best players, but evidence seems to show that the match is in I-no's favor. Top axl's in japan, don't beat ten or koichi. American gg isn't as high calibur in the axl and i-no department, but once again, mynusdono vs axl (IN TOURNAMENT) = i-no win. everything you have said has been theory fighter up to now, and when we show proof, you slam on the axl. Well sorry if the top axls aren't up to your liking, maybe you should be better than them. Match vids of top I-no players are always vs top ranking opponents because anyone other than a pro gets raped by a pro I-no, period... If you want to say something, make it useful, this is the match-up thread (for I-no), not the axl is like totally gonna rape everything you do thread. In fact, you've denied everything that's been said about the match up that was positive about I-no, (where's your proof, btw.) Who do you play, your little sister? If you just want to argue, take that trash to axl's match-up thread... *edit* there are some spots in the thread where you gave good advice, I'll apologize about saying all you do is deny everything. sry... there is no reason dude to be so negative....i played DW at evo last year i believe he was on Jamie's team, yeah my team won but i know he knows what he is talking about. Now for the straight up truth, everything theory that DW has said is truth. Axl vs Ino is not good for her. it is a 6-4 matchup at best. I have alot of exp and there is no axl i feel in the US that can beat me based on exp, and those ive seen like sirsmoov that are excellent i feel i have an advantage against. i play with the tops in the country daily but just cause i think i can win this everytime doesnt mean axl doesnt pwn I-no...cause he does. So cut DW some slack cause hes just trying to help you out by telling you what NOT to do, so you dont die a fast horrible and embarrasing death. -mynus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
