Jam Vs Holy Order Sol

[Bluewindz]

Starting a new thread where info can be gathered since there was not a thread solely devoted to this topic. About Holy Order Sol: Aka HOS, HOS gets his damage from 4 ways. He will either land a gun blaze, throw you into a wall and do a wall combo, use his charged moves to chip or seriously hurt you, or pressure you into blocking wrong and counter hit you for damage. Good HOS players will charge their meter whenever they can via charge cancel, because it is fast and they can continue to pressure you while still getting some meter. The reason they will take a smaller amount via charge canceling instead of doing a full charge is that they are at risk of being punished and they let off pressure or lose tactical position. They also have a follow up that is like burst during their charge that can repel people except it is red instead of yellow. They are invincible during their burst they get from charging. So HOS players charge cancel because it is safer. There is a difference in charge times, it is much faster to go from level 2 to 3 than it is to level 1 to 2, so that charge cancel also helps mediate the risk from level 1 to 2 until they hit level 2. When playing against HOS, keep in mind which level he is at. [Coming in the future] Refer to the HOS 101 guide in HOS forum, extremely good... Level 1 Moves Level 2 Moves Level 3 Moves Strategy This strategy is solely my opinion based on playing against HOS players. Jam moves faster than HOS which gives Jam the opportunity to run away and re-space. This is important. Pay attention to HOS's tension bar as he can use fafnir which is a low hitting FB move. Before HOS gets 1/4 tension, you can move around and do some 214K or whatever. After 1/4 tension, maintain a space ...where it's far enough away to be safe from fafnir, but close enough to rush in. edit: taken out 214K 2S will be your best friend. 2S beats everything, and if you run in and use it before the HOS player uses his move, it will win, including FB fafnir, and gun blaze! Beware of his flaming uppercut and do air back dash to bait that. Also you do not want to be thrown. A good majority of HOS's damage comes from throw into wall stick into 35-45% combo... Get used to blocking his gun flame on wake up or during one of his pokes. He will go under you towards your other side, that's his cross up, sort of like Jam's 236S-HS when she's up close to the enemy. Master this and you sealed up a big portion of HOS's game. FB puffball is very situation, more likely to hit while HOS is in the air.

[Xkun01]

I disagree with the 214K being useful..especially in this match-up.

[ryokoalways]

Just 2147k (no AD) is good if you can read your opponent. OS best pokes vs Jam are 2s and 2d, both of which can be crushed by 2147k. OS counters it by gun flame though, but it's a trade slightly in Jam's favor. Other than that, just have to play patient and react. punish all rocket, parry 6h if he hit confirms it after 2s CH incorrectly and punish him hard. Master lv1 and lv2 storm viper bait (can't really bait lv3). This isn't a hard match in my opinion, as long you play smart. Use FB conservatively, do not poke like crazy, and just outmanuver him. He can't drive up your guard bar anyways, and like Jam, a good FD and you are in the clear.

[excelence]

OS can keep his charge lv btw makes you go freaked out all the time

[Xkun01]

Just 2147k (no AD) is good if you can read your opponent. OS best pokes vs Jam are 2s and 2d, both of which can be crushed by 2147k. OS counters it by gun flame though, but it's a trade slightly in Jam's favor.

Other than that, just have to play patient and react. punish all rocket, parry 6h if he hit confirms it after 2s CH incorrectly and punish him hard. Master lv1 and lv2 storm viper bait (can't really bait lv3).

This isn't a hard match in my opinion, as long you play smart. Use FB conservatively, do not poke like crazy, and just outmanuver him. He can't drive up your guard bar anyways, and like Jam, a good FD and you are in the clear.

Yeah thats always been my mistake right there! Sometimes I go rushdown too much, but I figured out that I would have to play patiently. The way i'm seeing it, is very simple. I can either get run in with 2S or, try to get in close, but if I rush in too much, I'll end up eating an AA. Not cool at all.>,>

In middle range distance, FB PB can be interupted with 5S,f from him. Truly if you were to advance carefully, this isn't too hard. If you rush him down, though he can get you almost everytime.

[Bluewindz]

I would also like to add that at a certain point, when both players know what's up. It becomes a spacing game. At that time, just build tension and either dash in and do a max range 2S.

[WUT]

2S loses to or trades with HOS' 6P during spacing/footsies (aka the range where you're baiting to CH 2S and 2D). Not many people know that, but if you happen to fight a HOS who does you could easily find yourself knocked down and on the defensive should you get a little too crazy with the 2S'ing. As was stated, the key to winning this is playing patient and punishing HOS. Most OS players kill themselves by being predictable and using setups that are only truely effective when they aren't expected. Stay on the ground, as GB ruins most of your IAD cross-ups and resets. Bait Fafnir hard, as it beats a majority of your ground pokes. Same goes for 2S and 2D. You can bait Lvl3 SV easy enough. Just parry the last hit and punish. If you're accustomed to guarding cross-up GB during wake-up, just go ahead and parry it. It's a free punish, provided he doesn't FRC or AC FRC to make it safe. Don't FB Puffball unless you know he's going to jump. GB and 2D both make you pay for throwing it out.

[Hatred Edge]

Don't FB Puffball unless you know he's going to jump. GB and 2D both make you pay for throwing it out.

A little tidbit about that. Air SV beats FB Puffball. So more correctly, if you're gonna do a FB Puffball while Order-Sol is in the air, do it if he tries to attack with his air normals. A Jam player has tried knocking me out of the air using FB PB and then he ate a SV.

I doubt too many HOS players can do an air SV on reaction though... There's serious risk involved.

[Xkun01]

SV is going to beat out alot. If a person FB's predictably when some is in the air, then its natrual to say that the'll be able to predict it. I remember playing some random HOS player, who would do this, so I switch up from the236S, to either P, HS, or S. I would say go or P or S, to either bait them out, and put them at a disadvantge. You can use the FB to knock them out of the air, but you can't rely it. Fighting HOS, is slightly harder then regular Sol IMO. Though the best option, is to see what an average HOS player would do. I hate fighting any HOSXP

[reaVer]

Just 2147k (no AD) is good if you can read your opponent. OS best pokes vs Jam are 2s and 2d, both of which can be crushed by 2147k. OS counters it by gun flame though, but it's a trade slightly in Jam's favor.

Other than that, just have to play patient and react. punish all rocket, parry 6h if he hit confirms it after 2s CH incorrectly and punish him hard. Master lv1 and lv2 storm viper bait (can't really bait lv3).

This isn't a hard match in my opinion, as long you play smart. Use FB conservatively, do not poke like crazy, and just outmanuver him. He can't drive up your guard bar anyways, and like Jam, a good FD and you are in the clear.

OS's basic attacks are 2S, j.P and throw, and they work vs any character, so it's a good idea no to use 2147K too often as OS could also j.P instead of 2S. Also, I'm not sure, but I think you can enter a SV after 2S whiffs your 2147K. KZO used this on isa for example, except KZO was airthrowing.

[Amadeous]

Wow talk about necroing a thread oh well here's some things I've found:

HOS' 2D is really strong against Jam, it's not quite as "I AM THE EARTH" as Sol's 2D but he travels forward during it and it's low enough to get under most of her pokes/a dumb puffball so it's still strong for him. On CH he's not getting much damage but he WILL get corner carry + a bit of charge so that's scary too. You can't space a 6H to low crush it like you can with his 2S or Sol's 2D, since he slides forward, but I've found Jam's 5K is really good at stuffing it if you think he's gonna do it or 2S. Actually Jam's 5K and fS are the moves I use the most to keep him from rushing in on me or trying to get cute.

I would say though NEVER EVER EVER do IAD Gekirin or hell even TK Gekirin unless you fucking -know- he's gonna mash Fafnir or something. HOS can do Gun Blaze on reaction to seeing that and that -will- blow you up and he gets a free, good combo. Some annoying HOS will try to even Gun Blaze out of your pressure if you're ending with a puffball, if they're only at level 1 charge you can do the fastest possible 236SS spaced out instead of landing it deep, and you'll be able to punish him. He'll still cross you up but the flame pillar will whiff and he'll take longer to recover than you so just hit 5K and get your knockdown.

For okizeme meaty 5K is again REALLY useful here. If he's only at level 1 charge he can't reversal it; you'll whiff but recover in time to block his reversal DP. Just make sure you've got that timing down or he'll try for a wakeup grab, but of course you always have meaty 6H to make him second guess that.

His big tick throw setups are the same as Sol's, 2P and 2K. He'll do them and also do frametraps with gun blaze -> 6K when you're in the corner to use his throw invul to get a CH on you. OS Parry these to shut him down on them. He can't gatling into a 6K after 2P or 2K though so he'll have to link it.

This matchup feels hella momentum based though and you're both pretty even at neutral even if you have to work around his 2S and 2D so once you get the first knockdown just go in and don't let go. Like Blue said in the opening post though you're faster so you can retreat and re-space if things get hairy and HOS is actually pretty bad at stopping jump outs so 1f jumping might help some.