Lord Knight's GAMEPLAY RELATED QUESTIONS ONLY thread (EX edition)

[Airk]

Why do people keep talking about Haku threatening offense with counters when Ragna is equally or more dangerous with ID? The only reason Haku can be offensive while turtling is cause of passive meter gain.

I agree with this - Tsubaki isn't comparable either, because she can't get better WHILE BLOCKING. Hakumen's passive meter gain means that even if you spend the first 15 seconds of the match HITTING him, he's still more threatening than he was at the beginning.

[Dont_Explain]

Why do people keep talking about Haku threatening offense with counters when Ragna is equally or more dangerous with ID? The only reason Haku can be offensive while turtling is cause of passive meter gain.

Idk, Hakumen gets free meter from just sitting there AND a free star for just hitting a counter. You aren't gonna sit there the whole match and wait for him to go in. Try to stop him from getting meter then you might end up getting countered. He gets a combo which can get his opponent into the corner, get more meter, and of course more damage. Counter with 5D if you're in the corner and the match suddenly changed to the Haku being in control where as Ragna would need 50 heat to RC and put someone in the corner.

The main thing ID has over counters is there is no guessing between highs and lows. You just do it. Haku does have to react accordingly, but it's easier to say they're both dangerous. Just for different reasons.

[Lord Knight]

I've noticed you emphasize not overthinking during a match.

What're some examples of what you'd consider overthinking? And what level of thinking would you say is right?

An easy example is anyone who plays a simple character, but tries to exaggerate the difficulty of their gameplan. You're only making it harder for yourself.

I can't really bring it to "here's an example of this in a match" - it's really just a train of thought, and the only way to get over it is to realize you're doing it.

Fair enough, I can agree with that.

My question was more for the sake of training a top performer, though. Anything and everything counts then to get an edge.

Yeah, but no one really gets those random statistics over 100 percent. All that other stuff is just contributing factors... I'm sure they are people who are better/more consistent at hitconfirming than I am, but what does it mean if I win more than them?

That's why as far as I'm concerned, the only stats worth keeping track of are those directly related to wins/losses/placings.

I play Litchi, what's a good way to punish his backstep?

When he techs, if you have the staff input 2A > 5B~6C and buffer airdash. If you don't have the staff input 2A > 5B 662C, 2A > 5B > 2C comes out on block, 2A > dash 2C comes out if 2A whiffs. Both lose to gold burst, so be careful.

It's much harder to deal with him backdashing in pressure.

Hey LK. Incase you didn't get my msg, ggs today. Also, you mind criquing my playstyle?

It looked like you had no idea how to play against Litchi, lol. I was pretty surprised at how much you turned around when I played Tao...

Litchi is still a pretty tough match for Tager, but you only need to hit her once to get the win.

LK - When you talk about not thinking are you talking raw talent? or something that isn't inherent?

Don't confuse thinking too much for not thinking at all. It has nothing to do with talent or something inherent... I'm talking about just looking at the screen in front of you and taking in the information that's presented to you.

ggs today LK. Having actually played you, do you mind critiquing me as well? I recognize some of the things I need to work on myself, but someone who's actually played me can probably provide more constructive criticism. Things I know I need to work on include:

-Spacing/Footsies

-Pressure, primarily mixing in throws and frame traps

-Oki

-Defense (I think I respect pressure too much)

-Approach for lack of a better term

Those are the main things I'm aware of that I know I need to work on. I was under the impression that I could fix most of this by simply playing more, but now I'm not too sure. That's about all I can think of but once again, thanks for the games.

I thought your neutral was the weakest. You blocked pretty well, jumped out ok, didn't really use DP much though. It's fine to respect pressure if you're unsure of what they are going to do, but if you notice habits or patterns you should try to punish rather than giving them advantage. Your oki was ok too.

Really I thought your neutral was the worst, you kind of just run around with no purpose... Tsubaki is indeed quick but she also has a pretty good AA and a good 5B. J.CC is good too but you didn't really use it effectively.

You CAN fix all these things by playing, but you have to actively realize that these are your problems, and then seek answers to fix these problems. Right now, it looks like you're half way there.

Hakumen playstyle - stand around or run around > hit them > corner > etc

[Zeero]

LK how do you fight against Carl?

And do you like to take free money from your Canadian brothers?

[Sophisticat]

Meter has nothing to do with it. It's just there to give you more options or damage in combos. It's easy to bait a Haku to spend it as well.

On the other hand, what prevents someone from going balls-to-the-wall in rushing you when you have 0 stars is counters (and good normals for help).

Hakumen playstyle - stand around or run around > hit them > corner > etc

The LAWD has spoken!

[samthegreat]

Oh well, since other people are asking. GGs 2 nights ago, I had a great time. What did you think about my Valk (RideTheIcening)? What should I try to work on (other than execution; I drop so much combos online it's almost sad)? I'm thinking about the Litchi matches especially, I was so free against Tao lol.

EDIT: After tonight I'd say, Go back to training mode lol

EDIT2: k we've probably played over 50 games in the last few days and I have a loooot of trouble escaping your pressure. Back dash works but then I get the feel I can't stop you with ground normals (5C is kinda slow... 2B is good but will lose to air dash and stuff, so I'm scared to throw it out...) so I pretty much always try to jump and escape with wolf or whatever, almost became autopilot at this point lol, but you always catch me with the 5D staff release. What should I do to go back to neutral? Cause if I respect too much I know I'm gonna get hit and being cornered is pretty much game over with the level I'm currently at.

Edited April 6, 2012 by samthegreat

[toanenadiz]

Any tips on how I can improve LK?

[Jyosua]

Hey LK! Any advice as to how to improve my pressure? Also, any other recommendations in general?

[TD]

quick question lk, what are the optimal corner daisharin setups in ex? l can only think of one...

[E3vE3 WAZ HEA]

just how good of a pressure string is

2a 5b 6a or 2a 5b 2b

it usually work against people who are blocking 13 orphans (as its hard to she what she is doing) but what do you think about doing it mid-screen or corner pressure w/o oki

Edited April 8, 2012 by E3vE3 WAZ HEA

[samthegreat]

I think he's talking about his Jin.

[E3vE3 WAZ HEA]

I think he's talking about his Jin.

oh let me edit that then xD(crawls in hole again)

[Haven]

LK, is there any chance I could get some games in against you some time?

Um, what would be the best time to mash out of litchi during her block strings? I have trouble figuring out when she leaves herself open to get punished when I am getting pressured.

[Nakkiel]

Any time Litchi manually sets her staff down while pressuring you (when she uses 5D or 2D) are good times to try and hit a button. Be wary of her large amount of late-chains (delayed chain into a normal), if you are going by assumption and hitting buttons preemptively you're likely to be counter-hit.

[Jyosua]

LK, is there any chance I could get some games in against you some time?

Um, what would be the best time to mash out of litchi during her block strings? I have trouble figuring out when she leaves herself open to get punished when I am getting pressured.

I second this question. Litchi pressure makes me sad. I can block really well on a good day, but I have no idea when to get out.

[Star-Demon]

WTF don't tell people how to beat Litchi.

[Rele]

How does one get a better grasp of air movement in airdasher games? Not only Blazblue, but also Melty, Guilty Gear etc.

Sometimes I hear/read people talk/write about players in videos or streams, and how they can tell that they're good players by looking at the way they move. However when I watch these videos, I don't see anything particularly outstanding. At the same time, when I play myself I have the feeling I don't move around nearly as effective as these players, and it shows in my win/loss ratio.

An example would be, if I watch a MB video, to me it mostly looks like random jumping around, whiffing your best air normal and fishing for CHs, but when I try to do this myself I just get my ass handed to me

[Jyosua]

How does one get a better grasp of air movement in airdasher games? Not only Blazblue, but also Melty, Guilty Gear etc.

Sometimes I hear/read people talk/write about players in videos or streams, and how they can tell that they're good players by looking at the way they move. However when I watch these videos, I don't see anything particularly outstanding. At the same time, when I play myself I have the feeling I don't move around nearly as effective as these players, and it shows in my win/loss ratio.

An example would be, if I watch a MB video, to me it mostly looks like random jumping around, whiffing your best air normal and fishing for CHs, but when I try to do this myself I just get my ass handed to me

I like to refer to that as Air Footsies. Seriously though, I find that I'm happiest in the air because of spacing, air dashing, and double jumping. When you're in the air you have full 8-way range of motion as well as your toolset. Used properly you can lure people into attacking you when you know you can stuff them and keep yourself somewhat unpredictable. Are you REALLY going for a jump in? Or are you just going to land and go for a low?

[Fluck]

How does one get a better grasp of air movement in airdasher games? Not only Blazblue, but also Melty, Guilty Gear etc.

Sometimes I hear/read people talk/write about players in videos or streams, and how they can tell that they're good players by looking at the way they move. However when I watch these videos, I don't see anything particularly outstanding. At the same time, when I play myself I have the feeling I don't move around nearly as effective as these players, and it shows in my win/loss ratio.

An example would be, if I watch a MB video, to me it mostly looks like random jumping around, whiffing your best air normal and fishing for CHs, but when I try to do this myself I just get my ass handed to me

It sounds like you aren't really aware of how movement interaction works yet. My own understanding of it isn't very good yet, but perhaps I can share a few tips from the viewpoint of a fellow beginner (and better players can correct me). Movement is mostly about controlling space. Characters will have different distances that they want to be from their opponent, depending on the match-up. If it's a zoner versus a non-zoner, then this interaction is pretty simple to understand. The non-zoner wins the movement battle every time he narrows the distance, whereas the zoner wins every time he gains more distance. If it's two non-zoners, then it depends on how the characters' pokes interact and where they prefer to be. You win by maintaining your preferred position (this could be in the air) without getting hit. For example, Ragna is pretty comfortable in the mid-range on the ground so characters like Jin who find it hard to outpoke him tend to prefer to be in the air in that match-up.

Of course there are also some interactions between attacks and actions that you may or may not be aware of. Anti-air > jump in is an obvious one but there are a few others, like jump-in beating pokes. Another example is running under the opponent while they jump at you, this helps you avoid having to guess between anti-air/air throw/block vs double jump/air attack if they still have an air option remaining and still allows you to win the spacing battle because they are now in a disadvantageous position: if they attack, they'll whiff and be punished; if they don't attack, you can safely poke them anyway as they are descending. Whiffing your air normal is not actually a good idea, you need to understand what is happening to you when you do it. After whiffing your air normal, you have landing recovery and this will usually means that you will lose if you try to ground poke your opponent after whiffing your air normal, assuming he was on the ground, forcing you to block and give up slight momentum. Also, most air normals don't hit above them, so generally speaking you lose the air-to-air spacing battle when the opponent is above you in the air (but BB has huge air throws which helps).

The above are just a few general examples, the best way to learn more is to observe videos and think to yourself how moving in a certain way helped that particular player. Understanding and recognizing these situations, judging the risk/reward of these situations, and learning to do that instinctively during an actual match is the best method to improve movement and spacing imo.

[Sophisticat]

Good movement demonstrates good space control. It is a passive measure of your ability to control the field without taking any overt offensive action, and keeps your opponent on his toes.

Learn good movement with your character, and you might just have an extra edge over your opponent.

[Airk]

Good movement demonstrates good space control. It is a passive measure of your ability to control the field without taking any overt offensive action, and keeps your opponent on his toes.

Learn good movement with your character, and you might just have an extra edge over your opponent.

More than "might" - for a lot of characters, this is basically how you win.

[Dacidbro]

Hey LordKnight

[Dacidbro]

Man, I just wanted a friend

[C0R]

Top Players don't have friends.

They have sponsors, enemies, combos and swag.

[Lord Knight]

LK how do you fight against Carl?

And do you like to take free money from your Canadian brothers?

I turtle really hard.

Also, yes, I really like CAD~

Oh well, since other people are asking. GGs 2 nights ago, I had a great time. What did you think about my Valk (RideTheIcening)? What should I try to work on (other than execution; I drop so much combos online it's almost sad)? I'm thinking about the Litchi matches especially, I was so free against Tao lol.

EDIT: After tonight I'd say, Go back to training mode lol

EDIT2: k we've probably played over 50 games in the last few days and I have a loooot of trouble escaping your pressure. Back dash works but then I get the feel I can't stop you with ground normals (5C is kinda slow... 2B is good but will lose to air dash and stuff, so I'm scared to throw it out...) so I pretty much always try to jump and escape with wolf or whatever, almost became autopilot at this point lol, but you always catch me with the 5D staff release. What should I do to go back to neutral? Cause if I respect too much I know I'm gonna get hit and being cornered is pretty much game over with the level I'm currently at.

Your neutral is bad, do you look at your opponent while you're playing? You would act the same whether a move connected or not, whiffing is dangerous no matter what character you are playing against.

As far as pressure, Valk obviously has problems when he's forced to block, but the point is he's a super strong neutral/momentum based character that he shouldn't have to block much anyway.

Any tips on how I can improve LK?

Think about your matches! You're beyond the level where I can give you advice.

Hey LK! Any advice as to how to improve my pressure? Also, any other recommendations in general?

Stop doing j2C > jC > Sekkajin on block, not everyone will be hit by the jC. Also, you should obsessing over pressure and focus more on mixup, making people block all day doesn't win you games, you need to hit them.

quick question lk, what are the optimal corner daisharin setups in ex? l can only think of one...

Daisharin is dead.

just how good of a pressure string is

2a 5b 6a or 2a 5b 2b

it usually work against people who are blocking 13 orphans (as its hard to she what she is doing) but what do you think about doing it mid-screen or corner pressure w/o oki

Using 2B for mixup during Kokushi is a bad idea.

As far as normal pressure, I'm sure its all right, you just need to keep in mind barrier defense because I'm sure 6A will whiff if they barrier 2A and 5B.

LK, is there any chance I could get some games in against you some time?

Um, what would be the best time to mash out of litchi during her block strings? I have trouble figuring out when she leaves herself open to get punished when I am getting pressured.

Best time to mash vs Litchi is if you think she'll put the stick down. If you get counter hit, she'll do ok damage and probably take you to the corner, or if you're in the corner you'll take a good amount of damage. If you play it safe, she'l get to do a lot more pressure for free.

If the stick is down, you want to try to do stuff if you think she'll move the stick, again, the reward is pretty good if she catches you mashing because of something else.

How does one get a better grasp of air movement in airdasher games? Not only Blazblue, but also Melty, Guilty Gear etc.

Sometimes I hear/read people talk/write about players in videos or streams, and how they can tell that they're good players by looking at the way they move. However when I watch these videos, I don't see anything particularly outstanding. At the same time, when I play myself I have the feeling I don't move around nearly as effective as these players, and it shows in my win/loss ratio.

An example would be, if I watch a MB video, to me it mostly looks like random jumping around, whiffing your best air normal and fishing for CHs, but when I try to do this myself I just get my ass handed to me

Do you understand the ocncept of spacing? Imagine if everyone's attacks were boxes, and if you get touched by those boxes, you get hit. So the goal of neutral is to get them to touch your box while trying to not get touched by one of their boxes.

Depending on the game, spacing might be different, because the rules of the game might be different. It will definitely help to watch players of all skill levels as people of different skill levels approaching neutral differently.... it's something you need to get an intrinsic understanding to appreciate it.

Hey LordKnight

Sup-