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SansProtocol

[CSE] Hakumen vs. Taokaka

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wtf are you supposed to do here? I've come to the conclusion she is the lambda of close range combat. In otherwords she'll beat out almost any of your tools she sees you abusing. A lot of empty jumps and blocking but that's about it, otherwise I just get blown the fuck up (especially when you're blocking online).

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you cant do anything

you just have to capitalize on their fuckups

if they dont fuck up then gg

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I don't expect much from netplayer tao's lol. I feel that a possible air tool is j2a, and when they are pressuring you can try to air grab them if you feel they'll be going for a cross up. Other than that, that's all I can think of lol.

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Contender for CSEX Haku worst matchup?

There is literally very little you can do to gain an advantage. Tao has a very safe moveset and her mobility just outclasses Haku in a ton of ways. Even our usual capacity to control space is ineffective due to her fast normals.

The only real area where I feel you can get yourself an edge is through getting in one corner-carry combo, then just kill her there by not letting up the advantage. Just brute force your momentum and make use of Haku's burst dmg through accumulated stars. It should make quick work of her low hp.

So basically attempt a one-shot kill with a continuous assault, and you can't drop those combos. S'all I got, yo.

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Contender for CSEX Haku worst matchup?

+1

This matchup is a nightmare. Not only is it pretty much impossible to punish her, it's also impossible to catch up AND outpoke her. In this matchup, you gonna have to give a lot of respect(So that she starts using overheads) because you want to 6D those overheads while getting pressured, because outside of random J.2As you wont be hitting her with anything else anytime soon.

Then again, i'm a pretty crappy Haku but even i can tell this matchup is terrible from the matches i had.

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:I *sigh* alright...

anyway ill go by raw data with tao.

her abilities

her 2A she can only 2A twice in 1 AIR TIGHT block string, to continue doing it she needs to either wait, delay it (both are dangerous) or reset with 5A/B,6B. anything else is asking to get hit. In all honesty you should not really attempt to go to her without a good read/reaction to what you think they will do.

her arial manueverability is great but what some people dont realise is her 4D 5D 2D j5D j2D 6D j6D can only be air canceled twice before it is forced to follow through with the attack. the only except from personal experience is j4D, it touches the ground so it resets the cancel counter as ive replicated and canceled the attack repeatedly without stopping.

after the second cancel the will either need to land, delay or charge an attack and release it or not while they fall, special or follow through with a third air D which could get them hurt.

block strings will usually have a replication of etc, 2D falling charged jC. the JC is dangerous to attempt to counter as if they hold it they can land without ever releasing it and youll get CH'd.best option is to use 5A, worst that could happen is this situation is they block, youll be at the advantage.

other strings usually consist of mixed uses of 6B. block low and react to this, never guess, 6b is slow so time 6D much later dont hit it as soon as you see start up or youll get hit. 5D is good if you dont want to time the 6D or if you want to switch places, put them in the corner, etc.

grabs- break em. there are times and i have seen alll kinds of people do it, they will purple grab mid combo, taos are famous for doing this crap. just expect it when you are getting comboed and react if it happens.

combo enders usually end with her on the ground unable to be seen and you in the air, barrier on the way down and react to a grab, thats the best choice in this situation as they can 2D from below and reset you or grab you.

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pt 2

yes her mobility andsafe poking is bs levels of safe but its mainly to deter you from realising they can only safely cancel twice in mid air and once close to the ground.

use this to your advantage. dont try to out speed her, haku is much faster than before now, but tao is still faster. This matchup is where you really need to be patient and watch the player, her cancels and speed as well as damage make up for the fact the shes a glass mash cannon.

controlling space is in no way useless in this fight, it doesnt work everywhere but in some areas its a god send to keep her in the corner, especially when your combo ends with her in the corner and you not close enough to her, a low arc or empty jump JC can stop her from doing something stupid like 2Ding away or mashing supers.

in her block strings you may notice occasionally they may do 3C. this is a 3 hit low. fun fact the last hit on normal block is free to get 2D'd. the 1st 2 hits are air tight but dont give enough block stun to make th third hit safe. its a hole, abuse it. also IBing the second hit allows for the use of 6B vs her 3rd hit of her 3C.

2A(A) 6A is unsafe, its free to 6D.

claw super, last hit can be 2D'd.

usually falling air to ground strings will consist of normals into the kick special into ground normals just block low after the kick special (air to ground and kick need to be blocked high) if they even use it. all in all spacial control is still key 5A J2A 5C, JC, 6A, 5B, 6B (vs her 3C) are great tools in this fight.

anyway im too tired (lazy) to type the rest, hope this helps.

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I pretty much find it impossible to AA her with 6A. Hell, I find impossible to AA her with Hotaru either. I can only get lucky hits on her and carry the momentum until she dies or gets away. Rest of the match I'm desperately trying to hit her like if she's a fly.

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I would rather use 5a, tbh. Even better, keep to the air and don't stop moving. You'll land a hit eventually, do big dmg, and you'll be ok.

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Pretty much what Sophisticat said, 5A is a more reliable AA, keep moving so you won't let the Tao go nuts on you and once Tao get in on you be patient since she can keep you under pressure for a while. 5D works against her air approaches too though you should use it sparingly like most drives, she has a lot of green throw setups so be wary of using your drives in general if she is pressuring you.

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For me, I originally thought being in the air moving around would be the best option but I feel being on the ground with Hakumen's moveset is best. If I do move in the air, I use air dashes only to cover ground after sending Tao to the corner after a knockdown. Otherwise, they leave you vulnerable.

This match-up seems close to even for me. With the lack of Taokaka players, players with lots of Tao experience is stretched pretty thin. I think the skewed view that the match-up is so bad is that people are not comfortable against her. This plays so well into what the Taokaka player wants you to feel as her pressure is only as scary as the opposing player thinks it is. I'm not saying that she isn't great at it, but that she does not have the best in the game. You will have to feel comfortable not so much with blocking as much as with what tools you'll need to use through gaps in pressure.

Hakumen's drive should only be used on things you can be sure of. For example, it was already stated that 6B is a great move to counter for how slow it is. Most other charge moves are not safe to 6D like 6C and Cat Spirit 3 (236C), but 5D can work instead. If you can do TK Hotaru in reaction instead, do that. Otherwise, D should not be pressed as good Taokaka players are accustomed to baiting risky moves like these and you'll eat CH damage for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Get used to having your fingers on your A and B buttons for most of this match. Haku's C button almost always has a "Look, But Don't Touch" policy against Taokaka. Only press it when the Taokaka player is unable or unwilling to press a button against you. Either way, you will want to use moves that are quick and/or recover fast. You have 5A as an anti-air against cross-ups or low air approaches, 2A/2B against approaches on the ground, 5B against air-dashes from farther away, j.B if you happen to be in the air, and j.2A if you are high enough to hit Tao after a failed 6A and make them hesitant. j.C should only be used when low to the ground and far from her. You can use it if you think you'll hit her straight in the air but again, this is only as effective as the opponent is afraid or unskilled. Using your lower-damaging attacks may not have the hurt you want but will allow you to carry her to the corner (this is important!). The lower damage is also mitigated by her low health.

Hotaru. This move is the primary reason why I think this match-up is close to or is even. There are a good amount of chances to hit with Hotaru and any FC combo after the hit will put serious hurt on Taokaka because of her health. The fact that you gain meter faster now in this game only increases the usefulness and chances you'll have to use this. Also, you most likely will have the opponent in or near the corner, which is where that Tao player doesn't want to be. Her defensive options are very limited and usually well-timed uses of Hexa Edge are necessary if the Hakumen player locks her down properly.

So basically she wins in the movement, mix-up, and mind-games department. However, she only has 9500 health, she's very weak in the corner without meter, and though a great character, also depends on making your opponent fearful of doing anything to disrupt what she's doing (which the character is designed for). We need to make sure that if we land a hit, we make it hurt. If we carry them to the corner as well, a much-appreciated bonus. Luckily, we have many tools that work well to achieve this goal. The Hakumen player just needs to stay calm and aware of what's going on. This means knowing what/when to use moves, catching onto player tendencies, and punishing properly.

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Whenever I get the chance, I'll try. I don't have my 360 anymore but if I get access to either console, I'll record it.

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Why do you say Haku is best on the ground? This would imply Tao is stronger in A v. A than A v. G, which I doubt is the case. Can Hakumen more effectively counter her mixup from the ground than the air?

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Been playing with XDest/Neo this afternoon. I still hold the opinion that keeping to the air and not staying put is the best idea. You need to disrupt Tao's offence in any way, and j.A/B, 5a/b are good for this. I used to think j.C was good here, but it's really not because Tao's too mobile and its hitbox too thin. The recovery alone will get you CH'd.

Positioning/spacing is really tricky, but also really important I find. I didn't win any matches, but I was getting rounds whenever my positioning was good. This means j.B just out of AA range, a good j.B crossup, or successfully hitting with j.A, then getting on top.

The key is really to push Tao into the corner somehow. Then crank that Tsubaki/instant j.B/strike-throw stuff to the max.

On defence, barrier everything then jump out when you can. D if you anticipate the next move. XDest tends to use a lot of lows after strings, for example. Whatever the case, don't get caught.

Even matchup to maybe Haku favour, imo. Very good use of spacing and managing not to get caught in her mixup will likely win you the match. It can still easily go either way because either character has good comeback potential, though.

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I never said that staying on the ground meant staying put. I meant that the only moves that are dependable in the air (as you seem to have found out) were j.B and Hotaru. Your tool set is better on the ground and dash Hotaru is pretty strong.

I do advise only jumps in the air when you think it safe to or to get out of the corner like you said. I would also advise using Kishuu in this regard if she's in the air to escape.

As I already said, not pressing buttons or moving is exactly what the Tao player wants. Messing with distances and baits is why I think forward dash Hotaru is go for punishes drives meant to bait moves and the back dash to blow up jump-ins. TK Hotaru is good for most of the other times where Taokaka has you under pressure; however, wait for them to try crossing you up up before inputting it as it'll give you j.B or Renka instead.

Her frame traps are a big issue. Her mix-up is fine but nothing really hard to block. Blocking low for the most part and watching for 6B, Cat Spirit 3, and tick throw sums up the base of her ground game. It's all of her jump cancels and drive movement that makes judging when to go on the offensive very difficult.

Anyway, I agree with the rest of what you said, Sophisticat. After all, I've played close to 300 games all night with that insomniac XDest and I understand your pain. Plus with the secret hidden boss Tao players here, I get no sleep at night. Jokes aside, agree Hakumen vs Tao is even but not in his favor. I need to have a way to play them again lol.

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