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[CSE] Hakumen vs. Litchi

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Don't know if people still play but I have absolutely no idea what to do against litchi. If it's not her super armor bullshit its her pokes and mixups. I'm constantly defending and she has a stronger ground game. What would be the first step in approaching this matchup

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theres lot of steps to approaching this matchup depending on your playstyle.

litchis ground game is something to be respected as she has greater (and safer) range than you. Its better to play the footsie games until you can either land a hit or make her block.

do not go to her unless you are clearly in the advantage, this is not really advised. i fought lord knight enough to learn this the hard way. you have got to be patient, and play the fight slow until you can get in safely.

with her staff be mostly aware of her 6B, 3C, itsuu, jC, staff charge, and D staff placements and launches.

with her staff you need to respect her, her pokes are longer than yours and almost without risk. refrain from using 4C too much here. vs a staff litchi itll hurt you more than it will help.

itsuu can be beaten cleanly with any low, preferably 3C or renka if you can. do not challenge her ground game unless you are at least 5Cs length away.

staffless litchi is when you should treat her with a bit less respect and try to get in, this is when shes practically defenseless, if you can get in and establish some presence before the staff returns and she regains her dp, you can put the match in your favor.

pressuring her takes some practice and patience as they are prone to mashing DP, its decent with 2 hit boxes, if you manage to bait it block the 1st blow then hop forward and attack her so as the staff doesnt hit you on decent.

itsuu A and B can be kishuud after blocking the 1st hit.

tick throws, light pressure and conditioning really work well in this match up and is a must stay on the ground more often than in the air as her ja can lock you until you both land. try to create a wall and watch her as well as yourself.

defesive wise is where litchi will rule you, instant blocking will save your life. instant block 2a or IB 5A can really save your ass and get you out of the corner or mid screen situations as well as interrupt her pressure and reduce morale, they should be more careful and pressure you less blatanly.

i wouldnt advise trying to hit her staff on return to create a void but if you know you can, go ahead.

up close your tools of the trade are 2A, 2B, 5A/6A (to stop jump outs), tk tsubaki or renka to get the meta flowing. 1s and overhead with awesome return the others a low with awesome return.

donot try to outplay or out speed a litchi, youll lose more often than win.

you play the most powerful character in the game, but his power comes from patience.

thats all i got for now, im too tired to think straight any further hoped that helps.

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Thanks for the advice it was really helpful. The fact that anyone even saw this post means alot to me.

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We are still around. Just ask if you have questions.

One thing about Litchi though. Everybody says to beat her autoguard poke move with a low, but why would Litchi ever do it when you are that close. Whenever I deal with it, she is doing it at max range.

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most litchis dont know what they are doing.

they are at a subpar level where they use there tools as a means with no end or proper planning.

thats why alot of players with alot of characters do things at an unoptimal range or situation.

now when this person ends up fighting a good litchi itll come down to another answer for another time.

also itsuu block kishuu 3C can still kill itsuu even at max comboable range from litchi.

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We are still around. Just ask if you have questions.

One thing about Litchi though. Everybody says to beat her autoguard poke move with a low, but why would Litchi ever do it when you are that close. Whenever I deal with it, she is doing it at max range.

I believe your 3C can reach her at the start of a round, that's probably what they're talking about. Kishuu > 3C has been pretty successful for me as well, it's harder to react to then you'd think.

Honestly though, Litchi's super armor is best used against Haku-men as a reaction. Pretty sure she can do it fast enough to snag stuff like 6C/4C/j.C

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i think he ment off mid screen blocked itsuu.

3C at the start of the round is pretty dangerous.

the recovery on its pretty bad so you better know the player before attempting it.

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i think he ment off mid screen blocked itsuu.

3C at the start of the round is pretty dangerous.

the recovery on its pretty bad so you better know the player before attempting it.

It all depends on whether it reaches her or not, I'm not sure if it does anymore. 3C is a pretty safe option if you manage to hit the opponent at decent range, even if it gets blocked. It gets more and more dangerous to use the closer to the opponent you get. Getting IB'ed is obviously really dangerous, but practically everything Haku-men does is like that.

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It all depends on whether it reaches her or not, I'm not sure if it does anymore. 3C is a pretty safe option if you manage to hit the opponent at decent range, even if it gets blocked. It gets more and more dangerous to use the closer to the opponent you get.

its -4 iirc, problem is litchis 6B and 3C can reach you off a blocked or IBed at haku 3Cs max range. it CAN reach her at the start of the round but this now depends on if she uses itsuu for the CH, if not you are allowing her to get in.

unless this player just doesnt know what blocking is, theres also the possibilty that she will jump.

im talking from experience, this is not fun.

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According to the frame data you should be right, 3c has 25 frames of recovery and Litchi 6B (with staff) has a startup of 17, which with a -4 advantage in Litchi's favor only gives Haku-men 13 frames to block it.

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its a weird thing but oh well.

but to be honest for a starting haku the best idea would be to make some space.

this matchup takes time to get used to and the player themself as well. 3C is a viable tool vs someone who rushes but vs someone who fishes and turtles as hard as you it can mean a serious punishment.

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Honestly, you should easily be able to react to Straight Through with a 3C at the start of a round, it's not exactly the fastest thing in the world. There's no need to to do it on prediction. Even if she uses it the instant the round starts and immediately used B/C continuation, it has 19F of startup. Haku-men's 3c only has 9F. So at the start of the round you should stick to usual gameplay zoning/poking.

In my experience any Litchi who starts the round with Straight Through generally shouldn't be able to beat you anyway :v:

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most smart litchis wont do that. its too much of a dumb risk to even factor into intelligence.

its reactable yes but that requires you to sit there and wait for her to do it, when at the start of the match (again its playstyle dependant) to many things could happen at once, that can stop you from conditioning yourself to wait for a itsuu. usually backdashes, jump attacks, iads etc.

now if you know she'll do it go ahead and kill her for it, but vs someone with a smig of intellect, i doubt youd ever see that often, its too much of a risk.

now in the event that shes does itsuu, kill her for it, murder her for being dumb.

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I see "good" (see: competent) Litchis use it most often after comboing you. They like using it at mid-long'ish range where they can hit you and you can't hit them.

Is it possible to Zanshin the second hit of Straight Through > B/C?

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its better to just kishuu-gurren/renka/3C.

6D can work if they are at max range and your other options wont reward you much.

6D should work vs B/C itsuu.

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I don't mean at the start of the round, although there's that too. I mean when you're both at full screen and you're trying to get in. She can do it to pretty much anything and you can't exactly go LOL IMMA 3C HER. If she does it at point blank 3C range then it's a different story.

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Every now-and-then at round start would it be ok to start off with a 4C or crimson to check if the opponent is respecting you at all times or is it too risky?

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4C is bad against Litchi. She has a million ways to make you pay for it.

Litchi is better off than you at mid and full range. You want to slowly make your way in, and catch her without her staff. The instant you get a knockdown off a random hit and she doesn't have her staff on her, go all in.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ

I'd say block until you can jump out, although even that doesn't work too great because her overheads are fast and the blockstun (and my slow reaction time) means changing blocks is too slow. I try to jump out as much as I can to open space and hope for them to throw the staff out and use the time while it's behind you to try and get close on her.

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What do you guys do when the staff is right next to you? I've tried using Ds but that pretty much got me killed over and over again.

ignore the stick unless the litchi player is dumb enough to use it as an approach.

the stick isnt your problem unless its already spinning, focus on her until it launches then if possible use the trajectory to create a fumajin or counter it.

in the corner definitely donot focus on the stick, focus on her entirely, if you arent sure about countering out just barrier, guess/reat to her mix up and jump out and anticipate an air throw. barrier jump iad out usually works when enough space is created unless you have a rusher.

barrier/ instant barrier> D/ Hotaru depending on the situation definitely helps to get her off you and push the situation in your favor.

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