[+R] May: General Discussion

[Chuchulachu]

Holy crap, major props for the translations Kyle!

[Kyle]

I watched some of the stream. Here some details i noticed & impressions.

- SHD causes blowback & slide. Can pickup w/ FB-HSHD, but not when away from the corner. Blwoback causes corner KD & FB doesn't reach full screen. I wanted to see JP's pickup w/ 6hs but nobody tried... corner combo into 2D, SHD, 6HS, FB-HSHD...

- Corner combo of 2d, 63214S~P is HUGE damage, w/ only 5-6 hits & still has wall stick. people trying to pick up off the wall. IAD J.S? or j.S? or A dolphin variation...

- 5[D] causes opponent to fly over you, not jump cancrl , no LINK found ATM. I speculate c.S will hit tho.

-SVD causes suction but has much worse recovery. = lame loop gone. Suction is based on the direction opponent is FACING, so doing a SVD on a backwards opponent SHOULD give enough recovery for tensionless loops. LIke a modified version of the DOUBLE DOLPHIN UPPER combo's in SLASH & Reoad...

- 2HS is stagger on regular hit. Saw someone confirm standing for S, 2HS ,FB-SVD, J.HS, LAND...

- Her dash startup is EXTREMELY fast

- Peope haven't found uses for OHK yet, but i am hopeful with 6f invinc. XD

- midscreen people are extending combo's w/ tension. ( a needed nerf) using RR FRC or FB-HSHD.

[Most Unknown]

It looks like what they tried to to was have May use more meters for combos for big damage...I like how they changed 6HS to be used more in combos which adds a sort of swag to the character. I personally would prefer to switch back to the Slash and Reload style May combos. Maybe thats what we'll have to switch back to which I'm fine with...

[pochp]

finally some footage : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugAA0Pq5y2U#t=3m59s

not too sure what the exact changes are, as justice might just have a big hitbox allowing some things that wouldn't work on the rest of the cast. 63214S looks like it might be useful now.

[Kyle]

Ch J.HS w/ much less untech time

5F.S combo's into 3K for a MidRange KD.

Double Dolphin Uppers still in.

[Kryian]

Watching Kedako get whomped by Dogura is so depressing (

). This character might just be turrible now . It appears as if spinny super and random EX dolphins are pretty much the only things to fear now.

[Frank The Tank]

Kedako looked really unfamiliar with the new May. We should probably just give it time before jumping to a rash conclusion based off of one set of matches against the best RKy player in the world, whose character didn't really change much.

[Goldenrody]

Kedako still ended up winning that ranbat though. I dunno why grand finals were missing from the video

[Kyle]

5F.S move level increased is a great buff.

We can do max range K, 5F.S, 3K for a KD.

or

5K, 5F.S, FB-HSHD, 2K, S, 2D for a more oki based KD.

- 6HS can cancel during startup frames into OHK. gimmicky mixup that will fun to abuse.

- New BnB is smokin hot. Confirm hits into: 2D. FB-SVD, Delay, J.HS, Land, 66~6HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD. OKI

- New RR can air FRC, more trajectory options.

Also if we poke w/ 5K & it stuffs a back dash, we can go into , K, 5F.S, 6HS, FB-SVD, Delay, J.HS, Land, 66~6HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD. OKI

New hoop-set is awesome b/c it pushes opponents back into you. Perfect for setting up a jump-in mixup.

cr.HS staggers on HIT, We can ghetto combo into OHK if opponents can't shake or prefer to sleep.

[K2]

Character love>anything

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Any idea what May's OHK startup actually is now since the v1.10 patch?

[Lynxfort]

when i tried to find any use for the new OHK i had an idea it might not so practical (just did it training mode ) unless you playing against someone knows nothing about may..

it's somehow a sit up..after normal throw.. do the D ver of -Applause for the Victim- if the opp block the dolphin and you did OHK in certain timing you can throw him ASAP the block stun ends..

another one do the same as before but this time hold D then OHK while the opp still block thinking the dolphin ..mix the throw with normals (after running of course ) e.g 6+HS .cl.S..etc

There is a little good thing of new OHK that if the opp hit you before you reach to him it wont count as counter hit..

[Kyle]

I am going to use this post to detail some probabilities regarding "Bear Stun".

www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Offense_%28GGAC%29

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=May_Frame_Data_%28GGAC%29

Individual character defense-modifiers are not considered when calculating stun-damage.

GUTS is not a factor when calculating stun-damage.

Individual move Stun-multipliers are applied at the end of the calculation.

Easiest is Chipp/Dizzy: STUNS@50 points

Toughest is Potemkin/ABA/Robot: STUNS@80 points

There is a randomly generated variable of 1.0 - 1.3 in the equation. This makes the final outcome a ranged-value. I will calculate the most-likely values together and the least likely values together to determine this range.

- May's raw 6P has 3x stun modifier

- May's charged 6p's have even more increased stun modifier over time. HOWEVER, we are going to assume 22f total startup (THANKS Ukujiku)

- May's J.D has a 1.75x stun modifier

- CounterHit doubles the stun value of that hit

- OTG state is BAD-BAD-BAD. Stun Proration of 25% & the opponent HEALS stun damage over time. Avoid knocking down and you are better off going for a "reset"

_______________________________________

I am going to limit meter to 50% for now.*

COMBOS:

CH 6P, S, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

37.35 - 38.47, 2.62 - 2.70, 4.42 - 4.55, 10.22 - 10.53, 1.09 - 1.13, 9.24 - 9.52, 2.55 - 2.62.

TOTAL STUN: 67.49 - 69.44

CH J.2hs, 6hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

11.55 - 11.58, 7.12 - 7.33, 4.42 - 4.55, 10.22 - 10.53, 1.09 - 1.13, 9.24 - 9.52, 2.55 - 2.62.

TOTAL STUN: 46.19 - 47.26

CH J.hs, 6hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

11.25 - 11.58, 7.12 - 7.33, 4.42 - 4.55, 10.22 - 10.53, 1.09 - 1.13, 9.24 - 9.52, 2.55 - 2.62.

TOTAL STUN: 45.89 - 47.26

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 268

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 259 use 5S, 6p. HS-HD-FB.

CH J.2hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

11.55 - 11.58, 4.87 - 5.02, 13.78 - 14.20, 1.32 - 1.36, 10.66 - 10.99, 3.00 - 3.09.

TOTAL STUN: 45.18 - 46.24

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 195

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 196 This works on Testament, but is gotta do 5S, 6p. HS-HD-FB.

CH 5hs, 66, 5K, 2D, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

14.25 - 14.67, 1.50 - 1.54, 2.35 - 2.42, 1.32 - 1.36, 10.66 - 10.99, 0.90 - 0.92, 6.46 - 6.65, 2.10 - 2.16.

TOTAL STUN: 39.54 - 40.71

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 208

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 197

6[HS] FULL-CHARGE, S-VD, FRC, J.2hs, Land, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6p, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

.

TOTAL STUN: X - X

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 282

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 272 use 5S, 6p. HS-HD-FB.

CH J.2hs, 2D, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

11.55 - 11.58, 2.62 - 2.70, 1.52 - 1.57, 10.22 - 10.53, 1.09 - 1.13, 9.24 - 9.52, 2.55 - 2.62.

TOTAL STUN: 38.79 - 39.65

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 197

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 184

Anti-Air Corner only: HS-VD, LINK FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD, Far.Slash

6.75 - 6.95, 1.72 - 1.77, 13.78 - 14.20, 1.32 - 1.36, 10.66 - 10.99, 3.0 - 3.09, 1.42 - 1.47.

TOTAL STUN: 38.65 - 39.83

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 175

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 201 combo modified for non floaty as: HS-VD, LINK FB-HS-HD, S, 6P, HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD, Far.Slash

2D, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

3.75 - 3.86, 1.72 - 1.77, 13.78 - 14.20, 1.32 - 1.36, 10.66 - 10.99, 3.00 - 3.09.

TOTAL STUN: 34.23 - 35.27

Against Bridget: TOTAL DAMAGE: 171

Against Testament: TOTAL DAMAGE: 161

RESETS:

6[HS], HS-VD

9.75 - 10.04, 4.87 - 5.02.

TOTAL STUN: 14.62 - 15.06

Air-Throw

8.25 - 8.50

TOTAL STUN: 8.25 - 8.50

[Ukujiku]

Kyle if you want help testing that stuff lemme know.

[Kyle]

Thanks. I am currently waiting on a frame count of how long you typically charge 6[P] in her combos. I've asked Kedako on twitter... maybe he knows.

The previous post is updated and correctly showing data. Non BNB's yet but all variables are listed and I've calculated the typical combo resets.

[Ukujiku]

I think the amount of 6[P] charge depends entirely on how high up they are mid combo. When doing 6[P] corner loops on potemkin, for example, you can do an increasingly longer charged 6[P] if your timing is right as potemkin floats higher.

If you want the average of the first 6[P] that depends on the weight class. Against girls you can get a more charged 6[P]. If I had to guess I would say 33-35 frames on heavier characters and a few more frames for lighter characters, but I don't have any solid data backing this up other than the fact that may charges are 30 frames and it's a fairly tight link. Edit: I guess that doesn't take into account the hitstop though.

[Kyle]

hit stop & delaying the special cancel tho. I just need a general average.

[Ukujiku]

I'll try to record some 6[P] combos with my 30 fps camera and count the frames. That'll give an answer +-2 frames. Fixed my math and I think it makes sense now but not entirely sure.

Vs Potemkin:

Starting frame > First frame with hit sparks = Frames in 30 fps camera x 2 to adjust for 60 fps = answer±error

46 > 56 = 10 x 2 = 20±2

136 > 147 = 11 x 2 = 22±2

223 > 234 = 11 x 2 = 22±2 >> Continued Combo: 255 > 267 = 12 x 2 = 24±2 (which was too early to continue 6P loops as the HS-HD FB would go under him)

Vs Justice:

565 > 576 = 11 x 2 = 22±2

639 > 652 = 13 x 2 = 26±2

713 > 726 = 13 x 2 = 26±2

789 > 800 = 11 x 2 = 22±2

851 > 863 = 12 x 2 = 24±2

923 > 933 = 10 x 2 = 20±2 >> Continued Combo: 962 > 974 = 12 x 2 = 24±2 (FB might have missed but not sure)

Additional Notes:

Full charged on my camera takes 46±2 frames

No charge on my camera takes 14±2 frames

[Kyle]

Full charged on my camera takes 46±2 frames, No charge on my camera takes 14±2 frames

The frame data states these values to be 47 & 16. You are within tolerance! way to go.

On POT you are averaging 21f of total startup, On Justice you are averaging 23f of total startup. I will assume 22f startup for all equations.

Here are the credentials for 6[P] w/ a 22f of total startup (6f of charging)

Startup(Charge)

31f (22f)

Stun Multiplier

3.625

Blockstun

25f

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

I updated the previous post!

[Kyle]

@Ukujiku

While I am doing STUN on these combo's. Could you confirm total damage? We need to test against Bridget & Testament. Both have minimal GUTS, minimal defense modifiers & have both are different weight classes. Do each combo from a full health bar & report the damages, plz ^_^

[Ukujiku]

Damage of hit(Total damage up to that point)

Combo:         5HS >   2D   > HS-HD FB >  6[P]   > HS-HD FB >   6[P]  >  HS-HD

Against TE: 50(50) > 27(77) >  18(95)  > 33(128) > 15(143)  > 26(169) > 27(196)

Against BR: 53(53) > 29(82) >  19(101) > 35(136) > 16(152)  > 28(180) > 29(209)


Combo:           j2H  >   5P  >   2D   > HS-HD FB >   6[P]  > HS-HD FB >   6[P]  > HS-HD

Against TE/FA: 41(41) > 9(50) > 24(74) >  16(90)  > 28(118) >  12(130) > 22(152) > 22(174)

Against BR:    44(44) > 9(53) > 25(78) >  17(95)  > 30(125) >  12(137) > 23(160) > 23(183)

Note: The recording I did on bridget didn't work on any other characters

TE j2H combo recording works on FA(174)/PO(149)/KY(175)/ED(181)/JO(174)/SL(165)/AX(181)/ZA(174)/RO(151)/JU(175) so if you want testing done of those characters it'll be easier for me to record those if you respond quickly enough.

Edit: formatted them better

[Kyle]

Woah. looks GREAT. I don't need the individual values, unless you want to share, just total. Also, I am looking for these BnB's:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14271-R-May-General-Discussion&p=1530106&viewfull=1#post1530106

[Ukujiku]

Which characters and all of them? The 60 stun one is gonna dizzy TE/BR way before the combo ends.

Against May: CH 6P, S, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P] = 169 damage Dropped the last hit

Against TE 233 damage: CH J.hs, 6hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

Against TE 197 damage: CH 5hs, 66, 5K, 2D, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

6[hs], S-VD, FRC, J.hs, Micro, 6hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], HS-HD: Seems impossible on most of the mediums/lightweights and incredibly tight timing/impossible for heavies. Mediums/lights tech before (and too high) I can get a no charge 6[P] off and heavies tech too soon to get the quickest 6[P] > HS-HD off. Also assume you meant HS-VD for first one.

Anti-Air Corner only: HS-VD, LINK FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD, Far.Slash

vs potemkin 153

TE has really strict timing so I gave up

Anti-Air Corner only longer version: HS-VD, LINK FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD, 6[P], FB-HS-HD 6[P] > HS-HD, Far.Slash

Vs Potemkin: 170 damage

[Kyle]

6[hs] FULL-CHARGE, S-VD, FRC, j.hs, land, 6[hs] FULL-CHARGE, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6hs, 236236S, 2HS, HS-VD

Against Bridget = 367 damage. can can cause STUN. No Counter Hit required.

Wwwwww

...

6[hs], S-VD, FRC, J.hs, Micro, 6hs, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6[P], HS-HD: Seems impossible on most of the mediums/lightweights and incredibly tight timing/impossible for heavies. Mediums/lights tech before (and too high) I can get a no charge 6[P] off and heavies tech too soon to get the quickest 6[P] > HS-HD off. Also assume you meant HS-VD for first one.

I completely agree with this. i THOUGHT i saw Kedako do it, but can't connect it myself. >_>

Thanks

EDIT: OK OK OK I found it

6[HS] FULL-CHARGE, S-VD, FRC, J.2hs, Land, S-VD, FRC, Land, 6p, FB-HS-HD, 6[P], HS-HD

[Kyle]

Character nuances regarding corner-slide relaunches, Post a HS-HD

UPDATED IN THE COMBO THREAD!