The GGXXAC+R Anji Changes Thread

[Silmerion]

I, uh, guess I'll be the one to make this?

So anyway, here's the current change list:

Anji Mito:

- 6HS: FRC changed to be just before the move hits.

- FB On (623D): New FB, FRC possible right after the move hits, not possible to combo after (yet).

- 2H, 6H new gatling, combos on crouching hit only.

- 6H is now special cancellable.

- FB Butterfly (236D) travels farther.

- K Stomp (214K) causes a smaller ground bounce.

- Fuujin (236S/H) has shorter untechable time.

- 3S cancel is easier.

- Close 5S increases the guard gauge more.

- 3K no longer floats opponent.

I can't really figure out what they were trying to accomplish with these changes. The nerfs seem unnecessary - it's not as if Anji was a dominating character in AC. I'm not sure how much untechable time was cut from Fuujin, but I'm concerned that it'll make midscreen combos into running Fuujin -> K hop -> On harder.

[TheSlyMoogle]

I, uh, guess I'll be the one to make this?

So anyway, here's the current change list:

Anji Mito:

- 6HS: FRC changed to be just before the move hits.

- FB On (623D): New FB, FRC possible right after the move hits, not possible to combo after (yet).

- 2H, 6H new gatling, combos on crouching hit only.

- 6H is now special cancellable.

- FB Butterfly (236D) travels farther.

- K Stomp (214K) causes a smaller ground bounce.

- Fuujin (236S/H) has shorter untechable time.

- 3S cancel is easier.

- Close 5S increases the guard gauge more.

- 3K no longer floats opponent.

I can't really figure out what they were trying to accomplish with these changes. The nerfs seem unnecessary - it's not as if Anji was a dominating character in AC. I'm not sure how much untechable time was cut from Fuujin, but I'm concerned that it'll make midscreen combos into running Fuujin -> K hop -> On harder.

They basically gave him his old slash pressure game back, but that honestly depends on how useful 6HS will end up being in pressure. Making 3s cancel easier, and 5s building guard bar again, he now has a pretty pressure sound mix-up game that doesn't just involve butterflies. He'll be able to crank a guard bar now, so if you do hit one of your mix-ups, you'll actually do some decent damage that turns into another guard bar cranking mix-up. :D

[Jocelot]

Cool, I was wondering if there were any changes for Anji posted yet, thanks dude.

Anything slash like for Anji is a good thing if ya ask me.

[Dr.Faust]

I'm so hype for this. I wold love to contribute but I'm currently a noob.

[VMChaZ]

The nerfs seem unnecessary

I don't think so.

The most damaging combos on lightweight were: xx, low On, H Fuujin->FB Rin, H Fuujin(->Hitoashitobi), P, On. So now its harder to end this combo with knockdown. (though it is possible to do 66, 5HS instead of second H Fuujin)

But I agree with TheSlyMoogle, it will be easier to do longer pressure. Special-cancellable 6HS with FRC before hit means it is easier to bait DP on opponent's wakeup.

http://bitterharmony.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4480

Anji:

General Changes

all normals up until the end of their duration can always be gattling cancelled on hit or block

That means now Anji can start combos from random 3P without CH, RC or butterfly?

While watching these videos ( http://www.dustloop.com/forums/content.php?390-Guilty-Gear-Accent-Core-Plus-R!-Loketests-June-2-3! ) I noticed opponents does not recovery from Kou. So 60 untechable frames is enough to knockdown even if enemy is high in midair?

[TheSlyMoogle]

I don't think so.

The most damaging combos on lightweight were: xx, low On, H Fuujin->FB Rin, H Fuujin(->Hitoashitobi), P, On. So now its harder to end this combo with knockdown. (though it is possible to do 66, 5HS instead of second H Fuujin)

But I agree with TheSlyMoogle, it will be easier to do longer pressure. Special-cancellable 6HS with FRC before hit means it is easier to bait DP on opponent's wakeup.

http://bitterharmony.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4480

Anji:

General Changes

all normals up until the end of their duration can always be gattling cancelled on hit or block

That means now Anji can start combos from random 3P without CH, RC or butterfly?

While watching these videos ( http://www.dustloop.com/forums/content.php?390-Guilty-Gear-Accent-Core-Plus-R!-Loketests-June-2-3! ) I noticed opponents does not recovery from Kou. So 60 untechable frames is enough to knockdown even if enemy is high in midair?

3P is a command normal though, and from what I saw in the vids, didn't look like he could gatling cancel it. However if he could... GDLK!

Also looks like it with kou. Pretty sweet.

Also noticed from what combos I did see, Anji looks to have not changed. Even saw a double fuujin rin, into a running fuujin ender on slayer.

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Also noticed from what combos I did see, Anji looks to have not changed. Even saw a double fuujin rin, into a running fuujin ender on slayer.

Same impression, Anji looks like he's the same, with just a few more option (thanks especially to 6H becoming decent :V )

The new FB, on the opposite (623D) looks quite...useless. I mean, it CAN have some use to kept the enemy on the wall and so one, but considering the minimul damage it looks like more a waste of tension. Nice to have it, but I doubt it will change Anji playstile.

In the end, I'm quite happy with R Anji at the moment

[Dream Maker]

Japanese Anji players seem pretty disappointed with the changes (at least those who post on the BBS). Basically their main complain is that in this version Anji is still too dependant on HS Fuujin for neutral situations, and that Anji should get better autoguards to help zoning like it was the case in Slash and before.

IMO we still get something important though. Those changes should allow Anji to better keep pressure, something he lacked a lot in AC. A lot of changes go in this way : additionnal gatlings, more flexible 6HS, early cancel on P followup of fuujin, better range on 2D, 3K's new properties, gatling possible during move recovery (okizemes and mixups will be easier to set up), etc...

Very few changes indeed to strenghten zoning. 3S seems really interesting, has huge frames of autoguard now but only against lows. It remains to be seen whether the new 6H will be a better zoning option now that you can combo after it easily. IMO it still lacks autoguard frames in the early frames to be usable without having to anticipate too much. Something along the lines of 5-19 frames of autoguard up from the current 12-19 would make it more viable as a zoning tool.

Also he received some buffs here and there that are not related to things he lacked before but still contribute to make him stronger overall. The most important of them being 5S jacking guard bar again. Anji already had good damage in AC, now that he can jack guard bar easier with 5S (an essential move in pressure), has more combo opportunities and that the heavy hitters from AC have been nerfed I feel like he will become one of the next "cheap" chars if the changes stay as now. Just look at the vids, haven't you guys been like WTF when Anji did his basic AC combos ? I did, life bar just seem to go down like crazy.

[VMChaZ]

Dream Maker, thanks for that post ( http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13487-Guilty-Gear-Accent-Core-Plus-R!-Loketests-August-15-22!&p=1385153&viewfull=1#post1385153 ).

So we get some significant nerfs after all.

I think main nerfs are: HS Fuujin (hitbox), Aoi (slow startup & invul), j.D landing recovery.

What about 3S low GP, 5D high GP and 214K? These moves keeps properties from Loketest 2?

[Fenrir Werwolf]

Why they removed 6K FRC? That have no sense, it was a fantastic option for Anji, also after 5H

Meh

[Dream Maker]

6K FRC removal is not confirmed, it may just be a timing change. But HS into 6K FRC was a very unreliable method to continue pressure anyway I think that now that he can special cancel 6HS and has many new gatlings into this move he has a better and safer option to continue pressure and close in at the same time rather than ending pressure strings with 5H and just stop there or go for a risky fuujin mixup or 6K FRC into surprise dash.

Also it seems the properties from 3S, 5D and 214K stayed the same as the previous loketest, at least didn't see anyone saying the contrary on the BBS.

About Aoi : some people on the BBS said that apparently it doesn't float anymore now (IE the opponent stays on the ground) but you still can combo after it. 5K connects quite easily on crouching opponents and also on standing opponents but with a very tight timing. This leads people to speculate that the move is about +5 on standing hit and that you can probably connect 5P easier than 5K if the opponent is standing. But somehow the move doesn't seem to give much advantage on block. Some people reported being beaten out after getting Aoi blocked and trying to continue offense and thus speculate that on block it's just about neutral or at a slight disadvantage which is weird because according the the attack level mechanics it should still get some advantage. If this is true the move should be safe on block anyway, which was not so much the case before IIRC.

For the nerfs, I don't mind them nerfing Anji's cheapest things as long as they keep giving him more options but among these the JD recovery nerf is hardly understandable IMO. The move already took a pretty big recovery hit in AC IIRC, and now it probably won't be usable anymore for guard reversing mixups. I loved to throw in Shitsu, dash, 5K, IAD, JD (shitsu breaks guard) land 5K into combo as an okizeme mixup. The timing for 5K was already tight but now it's propably not going to be possible anymore.

[VMChaZ]

http://ru.twitch.tv/brokentiertv/b/332806081

3:31:30

I noticed some interesting moments:

1) 236HS, 236HS->FB Rin, ...

That means untechable time after fuujin was increased or that was just CH every time?

2) 214K bounces like in GGXXAC (or seems like this)

3) 3K that leaves opponent standing sucks. Because you must combo it into S Fuujin->Nagiha FRC, ... (not sure about link into 5P)

4) Nagiha untechable time was decreased. 3:38:30 - Millia recovers after Nagiha (that Nagiha was 2nd hit in combo!)

5) Anji player constatnly RCs 5D. Im not sure he just used to do it or 5D has no special cancel like in last loketest.

6) 6HS is really good to bait reversal moves and continue pressing

7) Its a lot easier to do unblockables from far distance thanks to new 236D

8) FB Rin's autoguard (Anji used it to bait late burst) is cool

[TheSlyMoogle]

3:31:30

I noticed some interesting moments:

1) 236HS, 236HS->FB Rin, ...

That means untechable time after fuujin was increased or that was just CH every time?

2) 214K bounces like in GGXXAC (or seems like this)

3) 3K that leaves opponent standing sucks. Because you must combo it into S Fuujin->Nagiha FRC, ... (not sure about link into 5P)

4) Nagiha untechable time was decreased. 3:38:30 - Millia recovers after Nagiha (that Nagiha was 2nd hit in combo!)

5) Anji player constatnly RCs 5D. Im not sure he just used to do it or 5D has no special cancel like in last loketest.

6) 6HS is really good to bait reversal moves and continue pressing

7) Its a lot easier to do unblockables from far distance thanks to new 236D

8) FB Rin's autoguard (Anji used it to bait late burst) is cool

1)From what it looked like most were counter hits, but it also looks like the regular hits have increased untech time. This is good.

2)Those were Counter hits. It has always bounced like that on CH.

3) Looks like you can probably link it into 5p from the untech time. Maybe not though.

4) Nah that's the correct untech time for Nagiha. To make millia fall to the ground without teching she would have had to have been hit several frames later with nagiha. It's the same as AC.

5) He was only RCing blocked 5Ds. Which kept him from getting punished.

6) He didn't use 6HS enough to really make a judgement about it.

7) Truth. New FB shitsu is bawse.

8) You could also do this in AC my friend.

[VMChaZ]

2)Those were Counter hits. It has always bounced like that on CH.

3:33:28 - Normal hit. Floats like in AC.

8) You could also do this in AC my friend.

In AC I have to do FB Rin AFTER burst (GP frames 2~10). Here I see that FB Rin and burst started almost same time. Maybe I just wrong; I'll wait other videos.

Also good thing is blockstun after HS Rin (3:35:21). I hope I can do re-butterfly like in slash.

[TheSlyMoogle]

3:33:28 - Normal hit. Floats like in AC.

In AC I have to do FB Rin AFTER burst (GP frames 2~10). Here I see that FB Rin and burst started almost same time. Maybe I just wrong; I'll wait other videos.

Also good thing is blockstun after HS Rin (3:35:21). I hope I can do re-butterfly like in slash.

Ahh I see what you're saying now. I assumed you meant the large bounce he gets from a ch 214k.

Also I watched the video a few more times and it seems like he really did delay the FB Rin startup on that burst bait.

[Dream Maker]

Copy/paste of what I posted in the general AC + R thread about Anji.

Anji didn't change much or at least that's how it seems, you can still play it exactly like before and do very well, aside from the changes on Aoi he feels the same with some new options here and there. I'll try to make a list of the changes I noticed, most may be repeats from the previous loketests but at least it will be confirmed now and I'll be able to give some insight.

- 5P : it seems the level went up but the recovery is a bit increased. It's really easy to pick up after using it as an anti-air against someone. On the ground you can also easily cancel into 5S via 3S cancel.

- 5S : it makes guard bar go up again, so that's great for such an important pressure move.

- 5D : it's special cancellable now.

- 2H : gained a cancel into 5H, connects even on standing opponents.

- 2D : reach is way better now, I'm able to connect the move in many cases where I'd just have missed and get punished before. It's a great change, makes Anji's hit confirm game a lot easier.

- 6P : is cancellable from 5H, not very useful IMO as 5H has a lot of knockback.

- 6K : contrary to the reports of the previous loketest, the FRC is still there, at least I had no trouble doing it.

- 6H : now it's a great move, cancellable into from 2H, 5S, 5H and maybe others but I didn't try. It's special cancellable also which makes it great for pressure. Autoguard frames seem to be increased. Recovery is increased though so it's better not to whiff it. Don't know if the FRC is still here or not but it would be irrelevant now if it is the same as before, maybe it has moved though. I used 6H a lot in pressure strings like 5S, 6H, shitsu or P kai, it's a great way to continue pressure. Cancels from 2H and 5H aren't great because the moves give to much pushback so 6H is likely to whiff after these. It's better to use it after 5S.

- 3K : doesn't float anymore, except on CH. I don't know what to do after that if it hits on normal hit except S fuujin into nagiha.

- 3S : it's a great move now. Seems a bit faster, moves forward and has more autoguard frames. It's actually a very legit anti-low autoguard move now. It doesn't cancel into another 3S anymore. The 3S cancels are a lot easier to do, but they don't seem to benefit from the forward momentum of the move. So doing 5S, 3S cancel, 5S isn't gonna make you move forward between the 5Ss or maybe the forward momentum is so small that it's not noticeable.

- jD : didn't notice any increase in the recovery or it's really a small one. I was still able to do on okizeme shitsu, dash, 5K, IAD, jD whiff (guard breaks by falling butterfly), land and 5K into combo.

- FB shitsu : travels very far and faster, takes time to get used to but allows to throw it from farther away on okizeme.

- Rin : it's an overhead move now, still very easy to see.

- FB Rin : it's now much easier to bait bursts with it even late ones, autoguard frames have been buffed a lot.

- K Kai : on normal hit it lifts the opponent up about the same height as P version now, so it's still very possible to combo. On CH however it still bounces very high.

- FB On : it's a bit slow to come out but Anji goes up very fast once he jumps. It doesn't seem to have any invincibility but the hitbox is huge, so if you're not super close to your opponent's attack when you do it, you should be able to catch him. It makes the opponent fly very high when it hits so you can connect pretty much whatever you want after.

- Kou : I'm not sure but it seems that it's untechable now.

- Aoi : the only disappointment of this new Anji. I'm not getting used to it yet, it's much slower to come out (got it blocked most of the times I tried) and the opponent stays on the ground when hit. According to japanese bbs it's possible to combo after it, which should be very interesting but I couldn't get the timing down yet. I also heard it had a FRC but I couldn't try. It's safe on block now though. I think it's not a real nerf and could actually be an advantage considering the combo possibilities but it's necessary to adapt to the new startup and the combo timing first.

- In general, Anji is now able to delay his gatlings up to until the end of the recovery of his moves. This could be very useful to create frametraps and such or to counter mashing attemps from opponents. I still have to figure out how to put this change into practice but I've thought of something against people who mash in pressure strings. Using 5S on pressure, late cancelling into 3S or 6H could allow to continue pressure while offering the option to counter an eventual mashing attempt from the opponent with an autoguard. You have to guess on whether to use 3S or 6H, it depends if the best mashing move your opponent has is a low or a high.

[VMChaZ]

The 3S cancels are a lot easier to do

You tried to do 2S - 3Sc - 5S?

I hope in AC+R it will be easier than in AC (where you need to buffer 3s and cancel 3S into 5S at the first possible frame)

not very useful IMO as 5H has a lot of knockback.

Maybe something like (5K,) 5S, 5H, 6P, 5H for tensionless combos?

5S 5H 3Sc 5S 5HS requires VERY short distance for the first 5S, and 6P has a decent horizontal range.

[Dream Maker]

You tried to do 2S - 3Sc - 5S?

I hope in AC+R it will be easier than in AC (where you need to buffer 3s and cancel 3S into 5S at the first possible frame)

Yes, in fact I was doing that all the time I got the chance and didn't miss even once. 3S cancel is so easy now it has become completely reliable and not risky as it used to be before.

Maybe something like (5K,) 5S, 5H, 6P, 5H for tensionless combos?

5S 5H 3Sc 5S 5HS requires VERY short distance for the first 5S, and 6P has a decent horizontal range.

It certainly works, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to start very close to the opponent to do that. For some reason which I suspect is pushbak, moves that go forward like 6P, 6HS and 3S don't seem to go as far forward when cancelled into from high attack level moves like 5H.

[Pwnzor]

So tell me this in regards to 3sc is it still possible to do dash io : 5s, 5hs,3sc,5s,6p,5hs fujjin/6hs

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