[P4A] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "Ace Detective"

[Doonpa]

You have to condition them to not expect it. Almost any character with a 2B that isn't garbage or a decent 5A can hit you out of it if you don't put them in significant block stun before hand. If they are reacting to the fact you are going airborne, you could also try to IAD back j.D them and hit them if they whiff a move with it. If they respect the j.D, you can 5C as soon as you hit the ground and go flying back in with something like j.C and resume your pressure. Otherwise, you'll just space yourself out of their range with the IAD back and you get to go back to playing neutral where Naoto excels.

[LunaKage]

Would a well spaced 2[C] IAD on block be sufficient enough for block stun?

[Doonpa]

It should be enough, but you'll probably still be vulnerable to DPs. 2[C] is +8, fastest 5A is 5f (2Bs are generally slower), so assuming they mash like a god, you'll have roughly 13 frames to work with. IADing + doing a normal should put you at around the same number of frames so it should work (could potentially trade though). You should try it out and see what happens against the character that keeps hitting you out of it since I'm not near a console.

[Ichipoo]

Uh, define 'scary' as far as Naoto is concerned, pls?

Oh yeah, I forgot, we play Naoto, we have to really fight for our opponent to fear her.

[LunaKage]

Watched a few of Denpa's matches. It just made Naoto look more fun. I learned I definitely need to throw more traps, that is gonna be the biggest thing for me to get used to, no character I've ever played had anything like that.

[Doonpa]

You live or die by your trap game with Naoto really. It's honestly the scariest thing she has considering that you can kill the majority of the cast off a D trap at the very start of the round with an OMB and no meter (akihiko and Kanji are the only two who will survive). I wonder if the japanese know about that combo path yet, since its soooo easy.

[LunaKage]

A question about the smp loop:

5AA > 5B > 2C > 236236D > 214C > 214D >236A~B~D > 2[C] > 5C > 236B~Dxaslaflaslagag

When going for the 236A, should you get both hits? I've had success with last hit only, but it seems extremely inconsistent for me, and I saw denpa hit a few loops using both hits, so I figured Id ask.

[ludwig van]

^You can get both hits, also you can omit the 2[C] to get more damage and it's easier to do.

[LunaKage]

Omit the charge 2C? Ah yeah, because of 5AA. You would have to charge 2C if you only did 5A right?

[ludwig van]

^Yeah, SMP requires only 10 different moves pre-236BxN, though sometimes doing more than 10 can get you more damage in some situations.

[Zeromus_X]

You can also replace the 2[C] with 2B provided you didn't use it somewhere in the combo previously. There are a lot of different ways to fill out SMP combos with the required number of moves without changing damage too much, sodon't feel limited to exactly what's listed in the combo thread.

[LunaKage]

Trust me, I dont feel limited. Thats the first thing that made Naoto fun for me.

Though I personally like the look of charge 2C in that combo lol, though it doesnt seem to prorate too well.

[Dreamboat]

Anyone got any tips on doing IAD from 5C? I'm having some trouble getting it down. I'm pretty unused to the motion, and the timing of it is a bit strange as well.

[Doonpa]

Are you using a pad or a stick? On pad you can just hold up forward while the move is hitting and just tap forward twice after a brief pause. On stick its the same idea, except you'll want to go to up forward, let the stick return to its starting point, and then tap forward in smooth succession.

[Dreamboat]

Using stick. Holding up-forward during the move might help, I've been doing the move then trying to quickly up-forward, forward. Thanks.

[Doonpa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckODVpaIrbY

Denpa's expensive (but funny) chip string. Puts Yukiko in awakening with 100% meter in the corner. The setup for this itself isn't particularly difficult, since it looks like it just requires the opponent to block a D trap. I don't know Japanese, but i'm guessing using Google translate that he mentions something that you can't start this off raw C trap, and something about crouching opponents. (I THINK) I also believe he mentions ending this string with double SB Trap if you have 150%, but again, can't say for sure. This can actually be a legit way to potentially run it back on a opponent since this is a lot of chip damage, and building up the meter isn't too difficult. Main reason why I think this set up might have potential is because you can go for a mix up at any point in this chip string. Also, I think Naoto might be able to block any guard cancels in time because of the hit stop added to them from the traps and for the simple fact that if they try to guard cancel out of it at the wrong time i.e at the SB Trap portion, Naoto should have recovered in time (unfortunately the video doesn't demonstrate this). Anyone who can legit read Japanese, your translation would be greatly appreciated here lol.

[Ichipoo]

>Denpa having Youtube account

When was this?

Anyway, REALLY good stuff btw, especially that 100 SP SMP+Silence loop.

[Zeromus_X]

Wow that chip setup is really sick. Time to pretend Naoto is Amane.

[Ichipoo]

Now my question is how easy can opponents disrespect it?

[Zeromus_X]

Getting them to block the first D trap + jA (to trick them into blocking high) is probably the hardest part. But after that it looks like smooth sailing. Lol Guard Bonus.

Edit: Also it looks like there's a small dash before the first 9j214D. Can you say throw bait?

Edit Edit: Denpa posted the 150 meter version on Liz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjeLA2bmOCs

Triple Edit: So after watching the video, I finally realized, Denpa is doing 5A > 214D > EX trap > 5A > another 214D > 5A > EX trap > ad infinitum. So even if you have only 25 meter, if you get them to block a D trap in your blockstring, you can do 5A > EX trap into significant chip damage and frame advantage for a mixup if they're lower on life.

The entire notation for the setup looks something like this:

Dash 9j214D, jA, j214D, land 5A, 214D, 5A > [EX trap > 214D > 5A > EX trap > 214D > 5A...]xN

linking the 214D after the recovery of ex trap perfectly is actually pretty hard

[Doonpa]

Ok so new fuzzy guard set up for you guys. You know that lovely chip setup Denpa came up with (i like refering to it as the "Block SMP" lol)? Well, the fuzzy is based off that idea. You can use an EX Trap to set up a situation where you can fuzzy using j.A dj.A. So basically the setup is something like this in the corner: D-trap gets blocked, you do jump EX trap at the peak of your jump, and while you are coming down you do j.A and then dj.A immediately. The D-trap underneath the opponent will combo into the j.A. My problem with this set up is that i can't seem to find a reliable way to combo off of it without using OMB. But odds are if you did this at the very end of the whole Block SMP, any derped OMB combo should be enough to kill the opponent without spending any further resources.

[LunaKage]

I have a question about something I came up with for use against patient players(LOL).

During a blockstring, after throwing out enough normals to push your opponent out quite a bit, use 5C > IAD > j.214D while right above your opponent. After landing, you can use an Evasive Action for a crossup.

I still have reserves about using this since I haven't found a way to punish someone who would be trying to AA that setup, could just be completely useless, but I figured I'd ask you guys.

[Zeromus_X]

If anything, people would be reacting to the fact that you're airborne/IAD'ing instead of the specific setup itself. If you can condition someone to respect your IAD blockstrings by mixing up where you IAD, this could be a good setup, especially after you've conditioned them to expect a throw after IAD jA > airthrow whiff > throw. I think I saw Denpa use that same setup a couple times, so like everything else, it's nice to throw in every now and then.

Speaking of traps in pressure, I've started to set out D traps during my blockstrings to pretend I'm charge cancelling with Tsubaki. Could be good to get extra frame advantage + chip off of staggers, and go in for a mixup if you're bold. Too bad the frame data doesn't really say much about how long it takes to actually set the trap, just how long they're active, so no idea how + or - you are after cancelling from different normals. But doing it from stuff like 5B or 5C is nice since they're usually too far away to actually punish you. I actually did it after 5B against a Yu player, they DP'd, and I was able to block and watch them fall right into the trap afterwards, so at least there's that.

Another thing nice about D trap cancelling from far away, is that the dormant trap makes 2[C] pretty much free against most chars except Mitsuru or Teddie. There's a sweet spot where 2[C] will just low profile most DPs or make them whiff, and they can't roll through the startup because of the D trap. Staggers with 5B/5C/2[C] make it tough for them to jump out. You'd be surprised how scared people get just because there's a glowing green crosshair in front of them lol.

[Inso]

Regarding mixups after 236A~Ax5 > Hamaon to get a 0 fate counter instant kill, I could swear I saw a fuzzy guard in a japanese video but I failed so hard when I tried coming up with something of the sort. You don't have time to use j.C, Hamaon seems to reset the blocking stance if you try to do it right away causing j.A to miss, and some of the variations I found easier to do are too slow and don't connect with Hamaon (like j.AB > dj.A or j.BA > dj.A). Is there any easy/guaranteed fuzzy to go to in that situation or did I imagine things and be grasping at straws here?

[Doonpa]

Well, i've tried countless times to get a basic fuzzy guard to work using Hamaon, but I don't see it working unfortunately. Hamaon's hits don't allow for enough blockstun to make a fuzzy happen from the looks of it. I've tried many variations of air normals like you have to no avail. But honestly its not that bad since you force a very obnoxious 50/50 with j.B/Sweep anyway that can lead to pretty nice SMPs if you've worked them out using OMB/another 50% meter midscreen or for free in the corner. You also have the option of jump delay airdash stuff too to add to the mixup. But unfortunately no fuzzy from what i've found. I also got to watch Denpa in training mode working on things related to Hamaon and he made no attempts to even try a conventional fuzzy, so I think he might have come to the same conclusion that it doesn't work.