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Shinsyn

[P4A] Yu Narukami - Critique Thread

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Post videos of yourself playing and receive feedback on how you're doing things. Hear others opinions to widen your arsenal or tighten up a few things in your game.

PLEASE, ONLY POST ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE CRITIQUED OR IF YOU'RE GIVING INPUT TO CRITIQUE SOMEONE.

Any posts in this thread that does not contribute to the purpose of this thread will be deleted (Warning). The second post following that will lead into an infraction and the third post will lead to a ban. Let's keep things civil and in order, Thanks.

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Took a look at the videos and overall it seemed like you were still getting use to the game. Here's some of the issues I spotted.

Neutral Game:

Your neutral game needs a lot of work because you were relying on a lot of jump back, air dash forward j.B/j.BB or IAD j.B/j.BB and random Slides and Raging Lions to get in. Slides are punishable on block and Lions leave you at slight frame disadvantage unless blocked in the air or whiff, in which case you are completely susceptible to punishment. You were air dashing in raw instead of setting up the air dash so you left yourself susceptible to AA punishes, which Lord Knight and Andy capitalized on. You're committed to jumps and air dashes in this game because you can't chicken block mix-ups and there's no barrier guard to save you from air unblockable moves. You have to use your jumps and air dashes a lot more wisely otherwise you get AA'd into a fat combo like what LordKnight did to you. You should have picked up on this as well since you were 2Bing people out of the air in those matches. You gotta stick to the ground more and utilize Narukami's 5B and 5C for poking and footsies because that will lead into the OMC combos or 2AB knockdowns into 5D oki.

Close Game:

Your pressure game pre-5D oki needs a lot of work because you fell into muscle memory habits of doing 2B, 2AB, 5D which is a really bad block string. Doing a string like that leaves you within attacking range for your opponent and this gives them the ability to counter hit you and crush a persona primer. LordKnight knew this and just did Droit in reaction to your 5D string. You gotta mix up those pressure strings more because going into 2AB is not a tight string a mash BD will get through. Have to learn to end in jump canceable normals so you have options to either escape and reset positioning or create a different mix up opportunity such 2A, 5A, 2B, jump cancel, Air Turn Back Dash, j.B cross up. Up close utilize more 2A, and 5A but remember you can only string a max of 3 A's together so you need to stagger them if you want to maintain pressure. You can create frame traps this way as well so you can do something like 2A, 2A, dash, 2A, wait, 5A, 2A dash 5A, 5A, dash 2A, 5A, jump cancel, etc...

Look over your gatling tables and play around with strings but just be sure to vary it up as much as possible so you keep your opponent guessing at your actions instead of them getting use to patterns. Cancelling into A Raging Lion once in a while isn't bad especially if you have 50 meter to OMC to combo into a knockdown and start the 5D oki.

Oki Game:

Needs more work as the majority of it was AC through them into 5DD or A/B Raging Lion. Play around with this in training mode more so you have more variety to keep opponents guessing as well as a transition plan in case your oki gets blocked. It should be a case of your opponent has to guess once during the 5D and then guess again within the subsequent block string. Make sure you time your 5DD so that it covers gaps within your strings so you don't eat a BD to the face. Learn the optimal combos post oki because you skipped out on a lot of damage so you can maintain the 5D from behind pressure when it's not particularly good as it limits your mix-up options. There's better combos that maximize damage, corner carries, and ends in 2AB back into 5D.

Combos:

You're still learning so it's not a big deal but you weren't doing the most optimal damage combos. In your air combos j.B is 2 hits you should let the 2 hits connect before going into j.BB. Save your super cancel Ziodyne in air combos because it doesn't really add a whole of damage and resets positioning. Save that meter for either ground Ziodyne combos or One More Cancel combos as you can get 4k-5k damage from a OMC combo instead of a super cancel combo. That 50 meter can also be used as a free in since it lets you do random Slides/Raging Lion into OMC to get in and maintain pressure.

Burst Management:

There's some rounds against LK where you eat a 4k combo and then Burst at the end when you have little life left. What's the purpose of that? You're close to death and LK just needs to touch you to win and then you're going into the next round with no Burst, which will take the majority of the round to recharge. You should have Bursted at either the start of the combo (recognize where his jc'able normals are so you don't get baited) or in the middle when the Persona is out so you can remove a primer as well. Otherwise cut your losses and go into round 2 or 3 with a Burst available.

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Wow, thanks.

I only had a few hours with the game prior to the tournament, but I actually managed to learn a lot of the bigger combos the day after. My neutral game is buttcheeks because I dont really play this game with anyone so yeah :/

I managed to learn 5C, Electric Car, OMC, Raging Lion B, j.C, Raging Lion B, 2B, j.C, Raging Lion A, 5AA after the event.

What are the safest raw raging lions in order?

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Well, I guess it's my turn to expose everyone of my own free-ness. I got 9th at Chicago 4: in Midwest Arena Tournament and I am disappointed in my performance. I really need some advice; I got a few tips from others already but I might hear something else from you guys. Here are the matches.

ShinSyn vs LeonUltimate (1:55:00) - ShinSyn vs Brightside (2:22:00)

http://www.twitch.tv/medina4life/b/329089662 1:55:00

ShinSyn vs Snoffles (00:00:01)

http://www.twitch.tv/medina4life/b/329108469

Reach out to the truth and speak how you feel, I have tough skin so don't hold back.

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Well, I guess it's my turn to expose everyone of my own free-ness. I got 9th at Chicago 4: in Midwest Arena Tournament and I am disappointed in my performance. I really need some advice; I got a few tips from others already but I might hear something else from you guys. Here are the matches.

ShinSyn vs LeonUltimate (1:55:00) - ShinSyn vs Brightside (2:22:00)

http://www.twitch.tv/medina4life/b/329089662 1:55:00

ShinSyn vs Snoffles (00:00:01)

http://www.twitch.tv/medina4life/b/329108469

Reach out to the truth and speak how you feel, I have tough skin so don't hold back.

The main thing I think you need to do step up your 5d oki setups. You did basically the same mix-up everytime. You did things like 2a, 2a, 2a, 5dd, 2a, 2a or 2a, AoA, 5dd. There are much more insane things you could have done. You need to do some of these http://mayonakamidnight.com/showthread.php?1705-Yu-Narukami-Oki-Setups-and-Resets-Thread. Other than that I think you too many risk with swift strike.

ill post up some of my matches when i was playing in peaceful jays' stream

http://www.twitch.tv/peacefuljay/b/328787441 watch up until (1:47:03) my gt is solkuro btw

I didn't watch all of your fights but for the most part it is the same as above. You didn't hit-confirm into alot of your swift strikes and got punished for it.

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how bout against zoning opponents. watch this match i had with djhuoshen's yukiko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHMg2vYbi4&feature=g-upl

As I said directly on your YouTube video, you need to jump over/hop or use the evasive action when Yukiko throws Maragi. You can sneak under everything that goes straight using Swift Strike (the D or SB version).

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how bout against zoning opponents. watch this match i had with djhuoshen's yukiko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHMg2vYbi4&feature=g-upl

-J.2A is garbage for creating pressure it is only good at creating positional advantage from combos, oki setups, or throw baits

-Limit the use of raw 5D. You should really only use 5D after 2AB. You lost a lot of momentum by doing that and it reset the neutral game a lot to Houshen's favor.

-Limit the use of raw Raging Lion. It seemed like you were throwing B Raging Lion out at random when they can be DP'd on reaction.

-Your spacing game needs work. Less jumping around and more ground game.

-Vary your pressure strings more those 2A's and 5A's are a lot better than people think.

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@kurokage

I just took notes as I watched your matches. There's a lot of Play-by-Play notes here so forgive me for the mass amount of information:

~Teddie~

  • You do quite a bit of random DP's that can get you exposed, choose when to DP wisely
  • Bursting at the wrong times. EX: You were hit in the first round with a CH 5A in the air, there was no need to burst there, know when to use it and hold onto it.
  • Be aware of your surroundings, Teddie has items all over the place and you're recklessly falling/running into them and let's not forget Teddie Vision. Be patient.
  • If you successfully land an AOA in the corner, go for the D finisher, you can net so much more damage from combos after the D finisher and still be at the advantage after knockdown. Use the C finisher when you AOA an opponent mid-screen since using D will only keep them further away.
  • If you connect Ziodyne in the air, there is no need to OMC. You're wasting valuable meter that could be used afterwards. You're still at the advantage when an opponent is hit with Ziodyne, use that opportunity to fall from Ziodyne and set up a possible air unblock-able as your opponent is falling to the ground.
  • Either you're doing your combos too fast or it's intentional but j.B has two hits, if you aren't going to go for a hard knockdown (j.2A), you might as well utilize both hits of j.B before canceling into j.BB to maximize your damage in the air.
  • Utilize Narukami's 5D okizeme. I was watching this video and you didn't used it until 7 minutes in. It's one of his strongest tools on knockdown, abuse it.
  • Against Teddie, you have a 3rd option when he activates Circus Bear (Unblock-able super), if you mistime your jump you can DP and the invul frames will save you from taking the damage from the super.
  • If the opponent is blocking your string, don't end it with 214D, you will get punished and depending on the character, you could lose the round.


    ~Naoto~

    • Here you not only have to deal with the match-up, you have to fight the player (I know this because I've fought him before). He's grabbing and DP'ing A LOT! Rounds where you don't tech throws or bait his DP, you are losing but when you do, you gain a nice lead or you flat out win.
    • When the fate counter is at ZERO, and you're in pressure, wait for the throw and tech it otherwise you're done if it's the game deciding round. I haven't seen him do anything else so until you tech throws, he will keep doing it. If it works, why is he going to stop it?
    • If you have your opponent sandwiched between you and your persona, don't sweep them until you gain the most optimal damage you can. You had an opportunity to do 3K damage and you didn't break 1k. Learn how to maximize your damage in sandwich situations.
    • Watch where the traps fall, if you run into a trap when Naoto is in the air, Naoto can convert into combos off the traps and set more so be careful.
    • After this Naoto does charge 2C, he tends to run in and grab you, tech the throw of punish him for it.
    • If the fate counter is at Zero and it's not the game winning round, don't burst any confirm, save it for when you need it. Most Naoto's are smart enough to know not to IK the opponent unless it's the game deciding round because if they do IK you, you gain ALL of your Fate back for the following round instead of half.
    • When you have the opponent in the corner and you don't have meter and you end a combo with lightning car, do it with the C version, you could pick up a combo or go for an air unblock-able (AUB) reset. Naoto doesn't have many options to stop an AUB reset (except not teching), so if you know one, use it.
    • Tech throws...
    • Tech throws...
    • Tech throws...
    • TECH THROWS! Literally, that's where most of your opponent's damage is coming from, he is relying on throws a lot and if you take that option away from him, he can't think of anything else to do, I can see that watching this set.
    • Work on your mix up, your're very straightforward with your 5D oki approach, try getting on the other side of your opponent so they have more to worry about when they are blocking your mix up. Be Creative!
    • Hell of a burst bait in the end! Your punish off of that needs work but all that takes is hitting up the lab and finding the combo that works for you.

    In the end; work on making your approach against Teddie less reckless, tech throws because you want to reduce the amount of damage your opponent can do especially if you can avoid it and add high damaging and optimal combos to your game. I hope all of this helped out, if I came off a little harsh here and there, I mean no harm nor disrespect by it.

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Consider location when you try to tech grabs, dont get your tech baited near the corner where the risk for attempting to tech doesnt really equal the reward (say you dont tech, you eat 1k midscreen+ air tech vs 4k+ corner into oki)

that said the reward off grabs generally rises near the corner, so keep that in mind too.

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@shin I greatly appreciated it I need to hear that. Thanks gives me a go to list. also yea ludwig told me you played him. I will definitely keep in touch. thanks

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Not really much to say here, you played the match up and won. I'd just say don't try to burst bait so hard when your opponent has a good amount health, you were baiting a burst that he probably wasn't going to use at that time. Other than that, be more wary on how you use your meter, there were points you used Ziodyne when the combo damage was badly scaled and you barely got anything for it.

EDIT: Please, don't post unless you're asking for critiquing or are critiquing. Any post that do not contribute to the thread's purpose will be deleted.

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First match round 1, you missed that OMB/OMC opportunity just before Chie's awakening lol. You could've taken her down at that point at guess.

Hmm, should I say that you kinda lack 2AB> 5D oki? I assumed that you wanted that 214D carry at first, but even at the corner you only did the oki setup twice (or thrice.)

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@kurokage

First, you need to work on confirming into 2AB. You tend to just throw it out there without actually confirming into it first. As Shinsyn said before, you need to start utilizing Yu's 5D oki if you really want to be a threat with him. Besides that, make use of 2C in place of some of those 2ABs if you're still not comfortable with using Yu's Oki. It's a much safer option than constantly using an unsafe sweep.

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Here are my streamed Final Round 16 matches. Already slapped myself a ton watching them again but any input is appreciated.

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=15m30s vs Eshi (Liz)

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=25m08s vs Lord Knight (Mitsuru)

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=41m00s vs Chosen Ninja (Yukiko)

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Here are my streamed Final Round 16 matches. Already slapped myself a ton watching them again but any input is appreciated.

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=15m30s vs Eshi (Liz)

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=25m08s vs Lord Knight (Mitsuru)

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/b/384425234?t=41m00s vs Chosen Ninja (Yukiko)

Against Eishi's Elizabeth

I'd say you did well overall, just a few questionable things, i think you know what I'm referring too (random zio ftw!). Anyways, that first round was Eishi's round, nothing to say, except most of the hits were from thanatos. Be patient with punishing thanatos, of course, best way to punish is to block 2C or jump backdash j.a her 5D, or even if you can see it's 5D, you can IAD and punish liz. If you're trying to hit thanatos, pay attention to liz's meter for the OMC. One thing to note about liz's maragidyne corner setup is that it can be mashed to beat it. Eishi get's the setup on you at 16:49 and 17:38, both times where had you neutral tech'd on time would've have been easy 5A/J.a escape. Last thing, you could've killed Eishi faster had you added a sweep after OMB 5D in the corner at the end, or by using your OMB earlier. You won the match, so good for you, just becareful of Thanatos swinging away.

Against LK's Mitsuru

LK is always a tough one. You need to be prepared to block constantly at the same time watching out for throws. He get's away with a good chunk of damage off his throws in your matches. You need to also constantly keep him in the 5D okizeme. A lot of the times I saw you either drop the oki or you went for damage, or you tried to go for damage while going for oki, but dropped it. If you had kept the oki game going, you would've probably taken a match. (26:53) Never 2C pressure against LK's mitsuru, he's not afraid to mash sweep against narukami pressure if he feels the opponent is not aware that 5B,5C,2C can be low-profiled with mitsuru's sweep. Throughout the match, there were times where LK dropped some confirms while you were in the air (25:34 and 28:26 to name a few). At time like that, it's sometimes a good decision to forward tech j.a mitsuru. 1) you'll be able to make it your turn by allowing you to start your oki. 2) you gain some of the screen by moving away from the corner (where mitsuru plays best). 3) you force the opponent not to autopilot by swinging aimlessly, by doing so can grant you a CH. Another thing to not, LK likes to use his j.b alot on your wakeup since it is cross slash safe. So be aware of mashing cross slash against mitsuru, as it is an easy way to bait a random CS.

Against Chosen Ninja's Yukiko

Chosen Ninja did his job, keeping you out the entire game. It looked like he knew the MU. Best way to approach Yukiko would be to jump/doublejump your way in and the occasional car slide your way (better if you meter to omc). She has no unblockable AA (least that i know of). Fans are usually in the screen, so if you manage to block a fan in the air, you can jump again to continue your approach. Reason you lost the game was because you were unable to continue your oki game. The times you DID get the sweep, he either blocked the mixup or you messed it up. Her only escape off the oki would be DP or roll, but you could still bait the DP by holding back on your jump-ins, leading to another oki. And random TK ziodyne at the end?? lol

Overall tips

Overall, it seems like you got better since I saw you at WB. It looked like you already had the oki in your mind, which is what lead to sometimes you autopiloting the setup and when the opponent would do something unexpecting (block/get hit/jump get hit) you dropped the oki. So next thing to practice on would be to change your oki on the spot if the setup you had in mind appears to not workout. Another thing you can do to level up would be to use his setups that have multiple setups such as empty jump>2A>2B>IAD 5DD or j.B(1)>2A>2B>IAD. You want to keep the opponent on their toes at ALL times. You should also look into using j.B(1)>AoA. Over at TSB, everytime i went for it, it always landed because people expected the 2A. Also, again, take advantage of your 2B(2), it gives you so much time to confirm things such as the opponent blocking to setup a crossup or getting hit to setup sweep.

I did like that you were using more of the 5DD tech against throw baiting. I was also happy to seeing you confirm 2B CH to sweep for more oki.

I also think you should work on burst-baiting. Some bursts in your matches were kind of predictable (to me at least), especially when Chosen Ninja bursted as you hit him while he was in negative penalty.

Some random info, when you dp someone that is ground it and it NOT a CH,if they decide to air-tech and come down with j.a/j.b, if you see the air-tech, you can prepare yourself by mashing 2B as they fall and try to hit you (damage or possible CH which leads to sweep)

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sorry for double post, but I really would like to see more vids from more people if you guys have it! #NARUKARMY

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Thanks for the input Grover.

vs Eshi that Zio was supposed to be a Ziodyne. I smelled a dropped combo/reset/whatever after I saw the OMC airdash, so I mashed it out like the scrub I am. Luckily the execution error worked out, but that was just silly :rolleyes:

I agree I wasn't being patient enough, I was guessing like mad when I should just block and react to 5D.

I was wondering about that maragidyne oki, thanks.

vs LK, yeah I felt dumb cause we even talked about not doing so much 2C vs. Mitsuru and I've already been killed for it multiple times yet I was still doing it.

vs Chosen Ninja was a disaster. I studied the match up a lot before going but failed to apply any of it. I wanted to crawl in a hole after that wake-up Ziodyne lol...the TK was another messed up input but I fully intended to wake up super like a scrub.

as for the overall tips I agree completely. I desperately need to work on hit-confirming and execution.

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