Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted August 16, 2012 YOU CANNOT REACT TO THE AIRDASH. Stop thinking you can, seriously. It's a 50/50 mixup. That's why Narukami and Chie have such good oki; they force 4-way or 2-way guessing games on every knockdown. And I cannot emphasize enough that you need to wait a pinch after inputting 2D to input 2DD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ayane Report post Posted August 16, 2012 yea my bad i was doing the input wrong i guess; you can j.b out of the airdash earlier than i was doing. But in all honesty typing in all caps isnt what helped me understand it; u could of just said "hey ur fucking up and u can j.b almost as fast as in that vid out of the airdash" and i would of instantly understand how it works. And by vid i mean the one with the GG example; i could react to the guy in the chie vid doing it; cuz he gets most of the airdash out b4 he j.B just like i was doing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted August 16, 2012 I didn't think you were inputting it wrong, because I can never get j.BB to even hit if I input it wrong (Chie hits the ground before the second hit can land when I do it wrong), and you said you were getting it. As a result, I thought you seemed rather insistent that you could react to an airdash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ayane Report post Posted August 16, 2012 yea it was working for me like that to where it was basically full airdash then j.bb. I got it now tho; and the whole airdash fake thing isnt possible becuz u would need tomoe to b hitting when u start ur 2A; but it was just more of a mindgame inside a mindgame thing i was trying to do. Sort of like if ur midscreen and u HKD them then u jump over them then air backdash to the side u started on. its kind of unneeded since all of that didnt actually cross them up. but they might of thought they were gonna be slick and block on the other side when u land; then turns out u went back to where u were in the first place so they are blocking the wrong way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZomB Report post Posted August 16, 2012 Ayane, in the *Original Chie Video the mixup comes from whether he does an air forward dash or an air backdash. The air back dash lands faster than the forward dash -- making Air BDash Low == Air FDash High. I think jump forward is a better option since Tomoe obscures your character a bit more that way, but neither mixup is super reactable. Edited for clarity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted August 17, 2012 Ayane, in the video the mixup comes from whether he does an air forward dash or an air backdash. The air back dash lands faster than the forward dash -- making Air BDash Low == Air FDash High. NO, IT DOES NOT. The mixup is [jump in>land>low], or [jump in>lowish airdash>high]. This works because these options land AT THE SAME TIME, so your opponent must choose between blocking high or low. You only airdash if you are doing a high. This is not that complicated. EDIT: Derp, you mean for the midscreen mixup with airturn backdash crossups in the Chie okizeme video, not the stuff in the video I posted. Sorry about that. >_> Still, leaving the rest to make this post less confusing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZomB Report post Posted August 17, 2012 NO, IT DOES NOT. The mixup is [jump in>land>low], or [jump in>lowish airdash>high]. This works because these options land AT THE SAME TIME, so your opponent must choose between blocking high or low. You only airdash if you are doing a high. This is not that complicated. If you watch the video... the mixup run is j.7 Airbackdash low or j.7 Airforward dash high. These aren't bad mixups although I think the ones you've listed are stronger overall (In part due to Tomoe obscuring vision). But for real, j7 airbackdash low hits at about hte same time as j7 forward dash high does. The low I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLJzWCoF3Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s The high I'm takling about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLJzWCoF3Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=57s Chill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted August 17, 2012 I see. I just checked the notation here; didn't watch the video, except for combos, since I knew the basic concept of the okizeme from playing VAkiha. That might actually be DP safe, which could be why he's doing it; I'd have to check it out. If it is, that'd be pretty godlike. Dunno if it's practical all the time, since probably you need to seriously be in their face after the knockdown for it to work properly, but it's something I need to go back and test Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZomB Report post Posted August 17, 2012 Well, most of the time you can block for a second, then do the j9 into the airdash/land mixup(beating DPs). Just make sure you get your normal out a couple frames after Tomoe's last hit so they can't mash DP in between.. It's super easy if you're in a situation where you can setup 5dd (compared to 2dd). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk Thanatos Report post Posted August 17, 2012 Well, testing it out, it didn't beat Yu's DP. I can't really think of any advantages it has over normal airdash mixup if this doesn't beat DPs, so I'm unsure of why you would do something more complicated for the same effect. Anyone else know why? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZomB Report post Posted August 17, 2012 It would avoid wakeup burst. They're essentially the same mixup though, just a different style of doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mMarikom Report post Posted August 17, 2012 If you watch the video... the mixup run is j.7 Airbackdash low or j.7 Airforward dash high. These aren't bad mixups although I think the ones you've listed are stronger overall (In part due to Tomoe obscuring vision). But for real, j7 airbackdash low hits at about hte same time as j7 forward dash high does. The low I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLJzWCoF3Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=48s The high I'm takling about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLJzWCoF3Y&feature=player_detailpage#t=57s Chill. This is what I've been doing (or at least attempting to do). Although I use j9 Airbackdash High/Low sometimes. Someone really good I played said that in hindsight they could tell by the type of dash if I was going to high or low but didn't notice it while we were playing...but honestly I don't think it's a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZomB Report post Posted August 17, 2012 It's just fast enough for you to notice it when you get hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mMarikom Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Ok so I guess my new oki Chie flowchart starts at j7 airbackdash low j7 airdash high and j9 airbackdash crossup high/low... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TexasTim Report post Posted August 20, 2012 Just in case people don't know, a couple of times during this video Chie does 2DD oki into j(9).B into the 2nd 236A/B rekka for a double overhead into low for 25 meter. You can see this at the end of the video (black and white portion) on the 3rd mix-up. Since I don't see the input for doing this anywhere, I'll just list it here. j(9).B > j.236AB > A/B This works by doing a deep j.B and doing the input for j.236AB. If you are low enough, you will burn the meter, see the blue flashing on Chie, and landing recovery will eat the attack. But the 236 motion is still buffered and the game thinks you did 236AB. So hitting A or B again when you land will produce the 2nd part the the rekka. It took me a while to figure this out, as I thought this was a move that was just not listed on her moveset. I think the A version comes out faster, but does less damage, but I'm not sure on that. Regardless, it's very hard to block. This will also work with: j(7) > 66 > j.BB > j.236AB > A/B Edit: J8/9 JB > 236AB Land 236B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 5C > 5AB (25%@2319) 236AB will whiff but Chie will still glow indicating followup potential High/Low order is: JB (High) > 236B[1] (High) > 236B [2] (Low) Can use 236AB Strum B as well. So looking again it was listed, I just had no idea what he was saying. I read it and thought, 236AB whiffs means some of the kicks don't hit, not that the input does not come out at all. So I had no idea that this quote was the same thing I was trying to find out about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magz Report post Posted August 22, 2012 Dakanya just linked me an amazing mixup video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18680585 Setup 1+2 - Double crossup off blocked 5C midscreen 5C (blocked) IAD JC (crossup from back) OMB (crossup from front) If the IAD JC hits and you combo into OMB the combo goes 5B 5C JC JBB J8D land 236B 236B 214D 236236D (50%,4764) If the IAD JC is blocked but OMB hits the combo is the same as above but for 50%, 4801 damage. The third part shows that it beats out Yu's DP (and thus probably a lot of others except maybe Mitsuru?) Burst does not get used if they DP. I did a little testing with the help of Manabe yesterday. It will not beat Mitsuru, Kanji, Yukiko, or Teddie B+D. All other DPs will whiff or lose outright. All counter DPs except Teddie's will be triggered, but they will whiff and are punishable. The 4th and 5th parts show how you can use OMC to do the same type of mixup off 5C midscreen: 5C (blocked) IAD JC OMC falling JB The followup combo is 5B 236A 236A 236236A 66 (under opponent) 5C 44 5B 5C J8D JA Next is a section about a corner crossup setup: 5AAA (blocked+pulls opponent out of corner) IAD JB (crossup) JA 66 5AA 5B 2B JBB JA JC 66 5A 5B 2AB (0%,2228) Note: I think there was some discussion on these forums about how the auto combo pulls the opponent out of the corner but I don't think it was as fleshed out as this. Last section is a blockstring ending in 236A 236A (1) OMC (only works on tall people): 236A 236A (1) OMC JBB JA JC 5B 2B JBB JA JC 5A 5B 5C 214C 236236D (100%,4036) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmachaser Report post Posted August 22, 2012 I'm suprised no one has commented on this. This is great stuff. I have been doing the j.B cross up for a bit now but it never occured to me to use OMB. Those combos on the video are so swag too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmachaser Report post Posted August 22, 2012 Also I have not had a chance to try this yet but normally I can't pass under the opponent with my dash after A skull cracker because they tech too early. Does the OMB give it more hit stun? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsubasa Report post Posted August 22, 2012 The third part shows that it beats out Yu's DP (and thus probably a lot of others except maybe Mitsuru?) Burst does not get used if they DP. I did a little testing with the help of Manabe yesterday. It will not beat Mitsuru, Kanji, Yukiko, or Teddie B+D. All other DPs will whiff or lose outright. All counter DPs except Teddie's will be triggered, but they will whiff and are punishable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magz Report post Posted August 23, 2012 You are cancelling out the recovery of the 236 A 236 A with the A charge super which gives you a fair amount of time to dash under. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meowmix Report post Posted August 30, 2012 This isn't related to the video, but it is related to Chie's oki game: Does her j.2D have any utility as an oki tool? I tested it out in training mode, and when timed right it seems that it can't be mashed/DP'd out of (tested against Yu). You can also airdash into pressure/combo off of it as well fairly easily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TG_Sneak Report post Posted August 30, 2012 it is the preferred oki option vs Kanji Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meowmix Report post Posted August 31, 2012 Having tested it out at TNT tonight, I've found it to be fairly effective. Bueno. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Furok Report post Posted August 31, 2012 The crossup OMB gets auto-blocked. Any tips on getting j.b to connect after 2b in the second to last combo? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rivals Report post Posted September 4, 2012 Thanks for taking the time to translate all of this and the other thread, magz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
