[P4A] Chie Okizeme and Mixup Video and Discussion Thread

[Amadeous]

Thanks for your work Magz, I just merged your two threads together to keep the information in one place. If you want, let me know and I'll try to edit the first post to have all the information and such. And from now on, anyone can feel free to post videos focusing on okizeme and mixup and discuss new options and the like.

[rivals]

I've got a question on the midscreen oki. I haven't had enough time to test this yet, I just noticed it when I was playing earlier. I have a hard time keeping Aki in the 2DD (I'm not sure if it's all 5f jab chars but I've only really noticed it vs him). My normal midscreen hitconfirm is usually something like 2A 5B 2B 2A+B or 2A 2A 2B 2A+B -> oki, but vs Aki he's always too far away and the 2DD just straight misses him, he jabs Tomoe so I lose a card and my pressure. Is there any way around this while still having a decent hitconfirm?

I'm assuming the problem is that my string is pushing him out of range, since the video tends to show everything off just 2A 2A+B. I can't confirm off just 1 2A though and I assume that 2A+B is unsafe (at the very least it's at disadv so I'm going to lose the momentum more often than not). Does anyone have suggestions for dealing with this? Should I just change my midscreen confirm?

[ZomB]

A few things: Sweep is jump cancellable, so it's pretty safe even on block.

Midscreen off a sweep knockdown you can use 5DD, which goes further than 2DD. The downside is it's slower, and characters with 5f jabs will be able to get out of it. You can however do 5B2B2AB and then go in to j.2D oki instead.

[Coma]

5DD still can meaty after a sweep but you have to delay the first 5D. Midscreen, delaying it pushes the opponent out of tomoe after a few hits but in the corner it's the preferred choice since it lasts much longer than 2DD and the opponent still can't 5A or 2B(in mitsuru's case) nor evasive action on wakeup.

Delaying just 5D after a sweep midscreen is a meaty and all the hits of it fatal counters despite the text just reading "counter". So if someone mashes out of that you can get over a 5K combo using 50% meter or about a 3.4K meterless one with AoA knockdown.

Dash 5DD after AoA knockdown is meaty and keeps the opponent inside Tomoe, even midscreen, so those are the knockdowns to go for.

[rivals]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!

Zomb - I didn't know sweep was jc, so that's awesome. I'll try out j2d tonight too.

Coma - IIUC, 5DD doesn't work vs 5f jab chars because it's too slow so they can jab out of it (midscreen, of course), so delay 5D would have the same problem right?

[Coma]

It's not that 5DD/5D is too slow which makes it lose to 5F jab characters, it's because the first few hits of 5DD/5D whiffs if done immediately after a sweep. You can see the ripple effect occur when you do it after a sweep showing that the opponent is invincible through those hits on wakeup. Set Chie to sweep>late cancel>5D/5DD and try to 5A out with an applicable character. You shouldn't be able to.

5DD doesn't work after late cancelling midscreen because getting the first few hits before the spin pushes the opponent out of it during half of the followup. Late cancelling 5D is the preferred choice since it looks like 5DD and the last hit fatal counters which cause the hits before it to fatal counter too because of counter hit carries. If you make your opponents respect this option, you can start doing 5DD right after a sweep again.

In the corner, you want to late cancel 5DD after sweep.

[Dusk Thanatos]

I'm guessing Coma = Matt Coma, MD Millia player?

Good shit, damn good to have you

Do you think you could make a video of delay 5D, btw? I'm just as confused as everyone else.

[rivals]

Awesome, thanks for the explanation. I have definitely not spent enough time with this game in training mode yet so it looks like that's what I'll be doing tonight.

[Coma]

I'm guessing Coma = Matt Coma, MD Millia player?

Good shit, damn good to have you

Do you think you could make a video of delay 5D, btw? I'm just as confused as everyone else.

This is he.

I don't have recording equipment unfortunately but I'll try to explain to the best of my ability and someone else can record if they get what's happening.

5D is 4 hits and 5DD is 19 hits. When you do 5D and 5DD right after a sweep, the first two hits are whiffing the opponent and it's the 3rd hit that makes contact. How late the 3rd hit connects is what makes it so characters with 5F 5As can hit the persona. If you just wait a bit after a sweep before cancelling into 5D or 5DD, you can get the 1st or 2nd hit to make contact. When you're cancelling into it immediately, these hits are too fast and are whiffing while the opponent is still teching.

You can see this easily by setting the training dummy to jump and knocking it down with a sweep then first doing 5D or 5DD right after a sweep as you would normally. The dummy should be airborne when the 5D or 5DD hits. Now do the same string into sweep and cancel into 5D or 5DD a little later so the first or second hit connects as opposed to the third hit. The opponent should be hit on the ground if you're timing it correctly. It's a lot easier to get the first hit to connect than it is for the second hit but you have to late cancel 5D really late for the first hit and makes it obvious that this is what you're going for.

Midscreen, you will find that late cancelling 5DD rather than 5D makes it so that the opponent is pushed out of the followup so you don't get much of a mixup but if you just do 5D so that it meaties, all of the hits will make contact. You won't be able to get much of a mixup but the opponent may still try to mash 5A and since the 5D is meaty, they will get counter hit. The last hit of 5D is a fatal counter so the counter hit carries from the first 3 hits and you can pick them up for a 5.05k combo if you end with super or 3.4k meterless with an AoA knockdown and corner carry.

[Akiro]

Good shit, I tested delaying 5D against all characters who have a 5F jab and it definitely works and seems preferable if someone is mashing 5A on wakeup.

but what I want to know is if giving up anything by using j.2D in place of 5DD/Delayed 5D in midscreen knockdown mixups? If not, why isn't j.2D the goto oki?

[Coma]

Every character except for Mitsuru can 2A j.2D oki on wakeup since j.2D doesn't hit any crouching character but her no matter how low you do it. Even if they couldn't 2A it on wakeup, j.2D doesn't last very long and can be late teched really easily. Chie's mixup is 1-dimensional after this too because of how far j.2D pushes back. She's pretty much always airdashing after it to get back in. You could do things like airdash>land>low or triple overheads using a low EX rampage>skull cracker but overall, the mixup options are limited.

[Primiera]

Just in case people don't know, a couple of times during this video Chie does 2DD oki into j(9).B into the 2nd 236A/B rekka for a double overhead into low for 25 meter. You can see this at the end of the video (black and white portion) on the 3rd mix-up. Since I don't see the input for doing this anywhere, I'll just list it here.

j(9).B > j.236AB > A/B

This works by doing a deep j.B and doing the input for j.236AB. If you are low enough, you will burn the meter, see the blue flashing on Chie, and landing recovery will eat the attack. But the 236 motion is still buffered and the game thinks you did 236AB. So hitting A or B again when you land will produce the 2nd part the the rekka. It took me a while to figure this out, as I thought this was a move that was just not listed on her moveset. I think the A version comes out faster, but does less damage, but I'm not sure on that. Regardless, it's very hard to block.

This will also work with: j(7) > 66 > j.BB > j.236AB > A/B

Edit:

So looking again it was listed, I just had no idea what he was saying. I read it and thought, 236AB whiffs means some of the kicks don't hit, not that the input does not come out at all. So I had no idea that this quote was the same thing I was trying to find out about.

I'd like to come back to this. I find this nigh impossible for me to do for some reason. I can consistently get Chie to flash blue from 236AB in the air low to the ground after JB or naked, but I can only on the rarest of occasions get the follow-up Skull Cracker to come out. Most often I get a 5AB when I attempt this. Is the input definitely just aerial 236AB > land A/B/AB?

[ZomB]

I input it as 236AB > 236B. Once you get the timing down it's not too hard, but while learning it you might get power charge sometimes

[Celerity]

Same. I haven't tried the method described to know if it's easier, but I just do 236AB > 236B. If you can get the blue flash you've got the hardest part down.

[Primiera]

Thanks guys, I'll try that out later. Why the B version? Just preference?

[Celerity]

After messing with it a little more, I do find the version without 236 to be a little easier. It doesn't seem to matter what you input between 236AB and A/B, just do it very fast and right as you're about to hit the ground.

I use the B version because it does more damage. I don't know if the A version comes out faster or not, but if so it's ~1-2F max.

[Primiera]

After messing with it a little more, I do find the version without 236 to be a little easier. It doesn't seem to matter what you input between 236AB and A/B, just do it very fast and right as you're about to hit the ground.

I use the B version because it does more damage. I don't know if the A version comes out faster or not, but if so it's ~1-2F max.

Why not AB though? Would that use 50 SP instead of the standard 25 SP because they're separate moves?

The B ender not only does more damage and is safer on block, but it gives a much stronger juggle opportunity than A. This is unrelated, but no one should ever do a 236A ender to 236A on block if you're banking on a high/low guess.

[Celerity]

Why not AB though? Would that use 50 SP instead of the standard 25 SP because they're separate moves?

The B ender not only does more damage and is safer on block, but it gives a much stronger juggle opportunity than A. This is unrelated, but no one should ever do a 236A ender to 236A on block if you're banking on a high/low guess.

Yup, 50SP if you use AB again. Didn't know about 236B being safer on block, but that makes sense. I figured there's a reason I never see anybody use 236A.