[P4A] Yukiko vs. Yu

[MikelAL93]

Discuss the matchup between Yukiko and Yu here.

Matchup Summary

Yukiko's Tools

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans: Her fans aren't highly recommended for this matchup, but they can help Yukiko counter against Yu's Persona attacks during their startup or active frames. The second fan that was thrown during Yu's Zio can also help take a card away from him if you are lucky.

Dia: Dia can help Yukiko heal up her lost HP and even protect her against Yu's projectile attacks at all costs. A good way to bait Yu out of his physical attacks is to summon Dia before they strike down on her. Doing so will result in Yukiko guarding or countering against such attacks, and for Swift Strike, take a Persona card away from him.

Agi and Maragi: Yukiko can time her Maragi detonations and Agi placements to counter against Yu's Raging Lion and Swift Strike attacks, even going as far as to take a card away from him when Agi counters against the latter attack. Maragi also has an advantage against Zio and Ziodyne because if you block while the fireball is active, it will not disappear.

Yu's response to them

Her 5B/2B/JB Fans: Swift Strike can easily go under her fans during the active frames of the respective fans. D Zio also eats her fans up thanks to its invincibility against projectiles.

Dia: Dia is completely vulnerable against all of his Physical Attacks, even Raging Lion, Swift Strike and Cross Slash. Keeping Dia active during its active frames will instantly result in him taking a Persona card away from Yukiko.

Agi and Maragi: Summoning C or D Maragi after Yu actives Zio or Ziodyne and A or B Agi after Swift Strike's startup frames can put Yukiko at a great risk and can take a card away from her. The later you are, the better the chance he will counter and break your Persona.

Yu's Tools

Zio and Ziodyne: Yu's basic projectile attacks. Zio can counteract against the first fan Yukiko throws at him, but the recovery for his Persona after this attack is lengthy. SB Zio can also paralyze Yukiko if the projectile makes contact with her.

Persona attacks: Izanagi's C attacks start up rather quickly, but his D attacks have lengthy startups and recovery frames and are not recommended when fighting against Yukiko, in which she can use her fans to counter against his D attacks.

Swift Strike: Swift Strike can easily dodge all of Yukiko's high attacks, even her fans and C Agidyne. Be careful when battling against this attack, you should also remember to block low against it because he can super cancel into Ziodyne or Cross Slash if it attacks you.

Raging Lion: If there is anything that needs to be said, do not block low whenever he uses this move as it hits high. This will allow Yu to create crossups and mixups if you don't guard it properly.

Yukiko's response to them

Zio and Ziodyne: Highly recommended that you use C Maragi against Ziodyne and D Maragi against the C and D versions of Zio. Yukiko also has a great chance of taking a card away from him since the recovery on his Persona with Zio is lengthy compared to his other attacks. You can also use Dia to protect yourself against both because these two are projectile attacks.

Persona attacks: This is where Yukiko's fans come in real use. J.D can easily be pulverized by her 2B fans before it lands on the ground. Her 5B fans also have a great advantage against Izanagi's 5D attack due to its lengthy startup. If you can break his Persona, you are at a great advantage while fighting against him.

Swift Strike: Place your Agi's accordingly whenever Yu executes this move. If successful, it will bait him away from the attack and take a card away from him. Startup timing and Agi placement are key factors to countering against this attack. Dia can also help bait against this attack if Swift Strike is caught at the start of Dia's active frames.

Raging Lion: Like Swift Strike, you should place your Agi A or B at the exact position Raging Lion lands at. If successful, it will result in a counter hit. You can also use her 2B fans and Maragi against it, but remember to detonate the fireball on the latter before Raging Lion lands on the ground.

The verdict of this matchup

[supahN10doh]

I main Yukiko and hav a friend who plays Yu. He has a scary pessue game and can easily stay in your face (exactly where you do want him to be). Learn to respect his Swift Strike (electric slide attack) and don't be tempted to spam fans at fulscreen (slide goes beneath them). A well-timed Agi will knock him out of the slide, as will an early Maragi (slide comes out and will hit you during startup). Her All-Out attack will also beat out the slide if time properly, leading to a nice combo using a One-More Cancel.

[IllogicalDreamr]

I just played a super annoying Yu player. He wouldn't leave me alone and I couldn't get him off of me. He jumped around a lot and I found it hard to punish. I was under the impression that his sword dive was punishable, but every time I tried to punish it he was beating me with 5A first. This isn't the first Yu that's given me a hard time.

So, what are some strategies to keep him off of me? Yukiko sucks in the close-range department, so it's hard to get him away once he's close.

[supahN10doh]

I just spent a few minutes testing possible counters to his sword dive in training mode. Dia (BD) will beat it out clean on reaction, you'll absorb the sword hit and knock him back as well, at worst you'll absorb the hit and you'll both recover at about the same time. You can also tag him with crouching B (direction depends on spacing) or j. B and knock him out of the attack. Dia will be your best bet to counter sword dive tho, heal and room to breathe.

As for keeping him off of you, utilize dashes to stay out of the corner and Dia to keep him out of your bubble. Don't be obvious with this or else you'll get baited and punished hard for it. Also, never do Maragidyne (236236A) when he is close, if he has meter he will use his lightning sword super and if not he can just BD you, both on reaction. Smart zoning with fans, 236A/B and 236C/D (remember to hold it for manual releasing) and tons of patience will net you the match. Personally, I think this one of her toughest matchups and will severely test your skills as a Yukiko player.

[MikelAL93]

As a side note; one of the best ways to counter his 214A/B is Yukiko's 1B/2B/3B fans before he gets near you, but it all depends on the direction and the timing.

I guess that will help too, I tried it against other annoying Yu players online and it did the trick. Besides, that 214A/B is annoying to evade.

[aRBy]

I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread. In my short time playing this game, this is the one matchup that is getting me frustrated. It just feels like anything I do when he's at close range gets stuffed, and granted having the patience to just sit and block on wakeup is one of the things I'm desperately trying to train myself to do overall (too used to chicken blocking things in Marvel) I'll try out the suggestions by supah next time I play

[SenXXi]

One thing I learned playing against other Yu's is to just sit there and block once he gets in. Don't yomi block otherwise YOU WILL get hit. look for openings to roll out or counter assualt if you need some breathing room. Another thing I learned is that if they go for Izanagi summons mid blockstring without sweeping you first you can ALWAYS net CH 2C and go for either SB Agi or regular Agi. I kept punishing this Yu that kept trying to reset pressure with Izanagi summons before knocking me down and I hit 2C on reaction everytime for a free CH

[IllogicalDreamr]

Ugh! This is the stupidest match-up for Yukiko. Yu has this annoying cross-up utilizing slides and his persona to trap you between the two. Be careful when trying to slide out of the corner, because if it's predictable you'll get grabbed and then it's a free combo.

I find it super hard to get out of the corner if I don't have burst. Sliding has to be done at the perfect time, otherwise you're sliding out, but then he's just waiting to hit with a 5A or something. Jumping out is impossible as well.

All in all this match-up has caused me the most frustration as a Yukiko player so far, which I didn't think would be the case because I thought Yu was the generic Shoto character of the game. Turns out he's not.

[blakmaphia]

When I have some free time to fight against Yu and nothing but Yu I will post what I know about it. What I know so far:

He doesnt really care about 5BB. It stops his lightning ball but he can slide right under it so he can get in on us quickly.

His mixup is crazy scary. Be prepared to Dia alot seeing how he WILL be on you. Also bait his DP as much as possible.

This match-up is scary...

[farplaner]

Yeah... it's hard to keep him out, and when he gets in, I feel like the match is over lol.

[Moy_X7]

A well-timed Agi will knock him out of the slide, as will an early Maragi (slide comes out and will hit you during startup). Her All-Out attack will also beat out the slide if time properly, leading to a nice combo using a One-More Cancel.

lol, just hop over it if he's using it randomly from full-screen. I he's doing it on reaction to your fans then there's not much you can do.

Well this match-up is pretty damn gay.

Full-screen: Slide shuts down your fans.

Mid-screen: 5B molests you.

Close: His jabs are hella fast.

Air-to-Air: j.B has more range than your j.A and his j.A is faster than it too.

Aerial Approach: His 2B is godlike and DP knocks you out of your anti-anti-air j.Bs. In the other hand, he can anti-anti-air your 5A with le dive kick lol.

WHAT DO?

lol, just gotta completely outplay him.

[IllogicalDreamr]

Taken from the Yu boards against Yukiko. This is what Yu can punish with. Scary. 50/50 mix-ups all the time with this guy. Is he going to do stupid sliding move, or his going to go for sword dive?

Block punishes vs Yukiko:

B+D

- (dash) CH 5C

- FC 2C

A+B

- (dash) 5B

Agidyne

- (dash) 5B

- (during flash) A+C > FC 214B/FC 2C

- (during flash) Ziodyne/Cross Slash/Myriad Truths

Maragidyne

- (during flash) dash B+D

- (during flash) Cross Slash

Full Bloom

- FC 214B

- dash CH 214A

- dash FC 2C

- (during flash) Ziodyne/Cross Slash/Myriad Truths

[LuminAbyss]

If you block his dive kick standing, he's not really plus. If you block it in the air, he's punishable. Same goes with this sword dive. Don't block them crouching, that gives him frame advantage. Otherwise, he's barely safe and you can use it to gain momentum.

2C is negative, if he tries to frame trap you with it in a blockstring, you can block him and punish in most cases. His only real safe option is backdash cancelling, as none of his specials are safe to go into outside of C Projectile (which is punishable on block), and either way, it's a guaranteed persona card lost.

Slide is also negative and leaves him crouching, so if you block that, make it hurt. His AoA is REALLY negative.

And if you get him to whiff his 2B, he's in recovery for a good amount of time, in counter hit state too.

[susano]

Just fought a Yu that wasn't mashing A. Well, let's just say my jaw dropped.

Keeping an eye out on this thread as well. Hopefully I learn some things.

[choysauce]

everytime you block a narukami DP, always move to the other side, so you don't get ziodyned.

roll his cross slash awakening super and punish it. it is safe on block

make sure you do true blockstrings when up close, cuz if they're mashing B+D you'll get DP'd

agi's are your friend in this match, wait till they get frustrated and use random slides and sword dives to get in, punish accordingly (jump in attack on slide, 2B on dive)

watch out for his meter, he can punish any of your zoning with ziodyne on reaction. bait it and get free meter.

always tech when knocked down by a good narukami player, they will always convert the damage.

never throw 2 fans or spam j.B's

save meter for dead angles

block alot look for gaps (patience)

[IllogicalDreamr]

Choy's advice really helped me a lot. I was able to dissect a Yu player. We had a conversation after were he told me he was scared the whole match and it was really hard for him to get in. It's funny because I felt the same. I was scared of Yu's pressure, so I did everything in my power to keep him the hell away from me.

[E3vE3 WAZ HEA]

I was scared of Yu's pressure, so I did everything in my power to keep him the hell away from me.

thats easier said then done. i find it impossible to get out of his 5D oki once i'm knocked down, i block (sometimes i still get hit anyways >.> i don't blame lag) and his mix up during it is too strong to keep up with. sometimes i even find myself mashing out of desperation (panic mode much xD)

[susano]

thats easier said then done. i find it impossible to get out of his 5D oki once i'm knocked down, i block (sometimes i still get hit anyways >.> i don't blame lag) and his mix up during it is too strong to keep up with. sometimes i even find myself mashing out of desperation (panic mode much xD)

When you panic, Yu wins the match. ._.

I can beat the crappy Yus but the good ones are scary...especially when I'm still trying to learn this game.

[Warhound]

Getting real tired of fighting this stupid little shit, him and Aki.

[W7ngless]

Yesterday, I spent upwards of two hours fighting the same 6 Yus in Ranked (it was a pretty big pain in the ass). I did, however, learn a few ways to keep them out that I feel like I should share. I won't pretend that I'm the best Yukiko in the world by any means, but it helps to have something to chew on, right?

What I've seen a lot of in C+~ Yu-play is that they'll rely a pretty good deal on Raging Lion (sword-dive) that has to be blocked high, which was an issue because I typically try to block low to avoid any surprise lows. The general mix-up here is his 5D (low) into Raging Lion (high), so my strategy thus far is, as soon as I see Izanagi appear and set up for the dash, block low, then anticipate the high and switch up really quickly, and try to wake up with 2A into the usual BnB, or 5A+B in case he tries to follow up with 5A or something.

The other pitfall I typically fell into was falling for the slide, too. I would try to evasive dodge out of it, but either due to mistimings or the hitbox being too large/lasting too long, it generally failed. SupaN10doh mentioned about countering it with an all-out attack (page 1), which is my personal preference on beating it (but I feel like I use all-out attacks more than anyone else I ever play against, which I think is partially due to me learning via stick. A friend commented on it, saying that I used it a lot more than most other people he's come across, and we deduced that hypothesis), however, I'm completely out of sync with him on using a One-More Cancel. I just follow up with the launch->j.A->j.A->j.C->JC->j.A->j.C->Agi combo outlined in the combo thread, as it does fairly hefty damage and, if timed properly, you can get out a Maragi before they hit the floor for another follow-up of your favorite flavor (I haven't really experimented with this, though).

The main issue I have is getting to know his mix-up, because he can practically string one combo into another complete combo with very little room for punishment, particularly in the corner. However, once you learn when and how to block your opponent, like what Choysauce85 was saying, they'll have to go to other moves in order to get damage, which are, in my opinion, easier to counter out.

5BB will counter out Zio, obviously, and I've had Yus try to zone me from being able to, say, 5D with Zio, or bait out 5BB with one, then slide under the second to get in. Be wary of the traps, but for the most part, I think that Yukiko is too underplayed for Yus to know that we have two fans, haha. At least, I've never ran into one.

Typically, my opening gambits are low-guard for 5D or slide, high-guard or evasive action in if he jumps to block out that stupid sword-dive or instant-dash j.A if I'm feelin' aggressive and he looks like he's gonna jump or do something silly. Mostly, I go with low-guard, and if he evasive dodges in, I'll try to catch him in a throw, and follow up with 5D combos.

Thoughts?

[Ciddypoo]

I'll throw out some thoughts.

First, like it's been repeated over and over in this thread: block. Narukami's buttons are really good and very hard to beat or mash out of. He also has a lot of ways to lead into jump-cancellable situations to bait DPs and Bursts, so you have to keep an eye out for that as well. 5B is a total nightmare since it leads to combos, is JCable on hit, leads to 2B (also JCable) and has a large enough range to stop almost any roll.

When you're blocking, just block low unless you're going for IBs. 5D (correct if I'm wrong) looks like a low, but it's a mid, so you mostly just have to worry about overheads and throws. Sweeps usually just reset the situation, which is better than eating a fat combo.

It can be kinda difficult when you're cornered, but you can spot grab attempts and tech them, jumpins are pretty easy to see and it doesn't feel like his j.5BB is as scary as something like Chie IAD j.5BBA/BS-mixups. 214B is extremely easy to spot, and AoA is pretty short-ranged if a little tricky. The main thing you'll probably be getting hit by is 214A, which is fine if you aren't pushing buttons because he can't combo off of it unless he gets a CH (you were pushing buttons) or he spends the bar to OMC, which can be hard to confirm.

Another thing is that in order for Narukami to pressure effectively, he needs to throw his Persona out there, so if you want to Dead Angle out, try and wait until you can break a card before you do it. Same thing goes if you feel the need to Burst.

You have to respect Narukami when he has meter, because he can Ziodyne you from almost anywhere on the screen safely (if he has 100 meter), and you really have to keep your blockstrings tight like Choy said, or you'll eat a DP or Cross Slash in the face the second you start using 5C > 2C.

If you happen to block a Narukami DP, like Choy said, move to the other side before you punish, because he can cancel the DP into a Ziodyne (grounded or mid-air) or a Cross Slash when he lands. Punish him when he lands. If he Ziodynes in mid-air after the DP, I like to charge up fireboosts and wait till he lands to punish rather than going for the punish immediately (the hitbox on Izanagi is ridiculous, it's broken my Persona before when I tried to punish him in the air). If he cancels DP into Zio near the ground, it's a free IK for you, so don't forget that.

Also remember that Ziodyne super has a reactable startup. If he's doing it randomly, you can perform an action before it hits, which robs him of the chance to OMC. So if he's dumb enough to do it in your face for no reason, either roll and punish or just IK straight through it. You can also Dia it on reaction, which I think also prevents him from OMC since it isn't hitting anything (anyone wanna test?).

[W7ngless]

So, Yu's slide can go under our 236236C. Just a heads-up. Kinda' salty about that.

[Senovit]

Dia won't prevent Yu from being able to OMC his Zio.

You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENe3q6o7Jw0 at 5:26

[MikelAL93]

First post has been updated to include the matchup format for details on their respective tools and how they have an advantage against them thanks to the info posted in this thread. I have yet to start on the verdict, and corrections can be made to what has been filled out thus far.

[gli]

On the subject of confirms:

Nice way of punishing Yu's DP (safest when he whiffs or has no meter) is to do 5B CH > OS Maragi D > Maragi loop (omit the first 5C on first explosion to get 5BB > B Agi ender). As long as he is not too high up this always combos since 5B should CH as he is falling from the DP.

I call it OS Maragi D since you can input 5B and then cancel Maragi D like normal. If 5B connects Maragi D comes out, if 5B misses then Maragi D never comes out (if I tested this correctly).