[P4A] Shadow Labrys vs. Kanji

[Urichinan]

Discuss the Kanji match-up here.

This post will be updated with information about the matchup as things are discovered.

[Crevox]

Any ideas on how to deal with shock? Specifically Kanji, but it's a problem for me in general.

[Urichinan]

Any ideas on how to deal with shock? Specifically Kanji, but it's a problem for me in general.

Shock is without a doubt the worst ailment to get hit by aside from Rage. Since she doesn't need meter that much, Charm doesn't affect her and the other ailments don't really hinder her gameplay. (Panic is confusing, but you can still play by pretending you're switching sides)

During Shock you can't walk, dash or jump, but you can crouch, short hop and roll. Since you can't block during a short hop or a roll, it's really risky to try and do those. Most of the time an opponent will try to run up and throw you, since you can only short hop and poke out of that. The best thing to do is just block the character coming in to attack, and if you see a throw coming use your R-Action or a quick short hop > j.A.

[Adelheid]

I know this is not... Particularly legitimate, but one thing I've been doing if I get shocked from further away and see them coming in, is to hit 2C, wait a short bit, and DP as they're getting up to me, so that even if they block the DP they still get pushed back by the advancing flames. I played like 50 matches in a row against an apparently decent Kanji yesterday, and it doesn't seem like there's an obvious way for him to punish it aside from knowing you're going to do it and going through it with one of his own moves. I might be totally wrong on this though.

[FunkyP]

If he's got meter for his chair toss super he can blow that up, EX leaping grab he can also time to wait till after the DP

[Urichinan]

If he's got meter for his chair toss super he can blow that up, EX leaping grab he can also time to wait till after the DP

"If you see a throw"

Meaning, reaction, in which case there is nothing they can do. Shadow Labrys' R-Action also goes through all throws until it's auto-guard frames are over.

[Adelheid]

If he's got meter for his chair toss super he can blow that up, EX leaping grab he can also time to wait till after the DP

Well, right. That situation is bad for you and no matter what your plan, if they have you read you lose. Thankfully though he can't really react with either of those from the distance you would ever try to DP from, it'd have to be him specifically calling you out.

[FunkyP]

"If you see a throw"

Meaning, reaction, in which case there is nothing they can do. Shadow Labrys' R-Action also goes through all throws until it's auto-guard frames are over.

D throw beats out S.Labs DP everytime

[Urichinan]

D throw beats out S.Labs DP everytime

Not if you DP during it's active frames and after the startup.

EDIT: Also, another way to deal with Shock is do do her command grab, forcing them to jump and then doing 2B as an anti-air. If they try to poke Asterios then you can 5A/2A/5B depending on the range.

[Adelheid]

Oh, yeah. If you actually see him D throw, you can absolutely react with DP to win. Him trying D throw is him predicting you already want to do something, which is a bit risky for him since guessing wrong means you get your okizeme, which is bad times for Kanji. Again, saying "If he guesses right he gets a huge advantage" doesn"t offer much, since you were already shocked so of course you're in a tough spot.

But all this should probably be in kanji matchup discussion

EDIT: Also, another way to deal with Shock is do do her command grab, forcing them to jump and then doing 2B as an anti-air. If they try to poke Asterios then you can 5A/2A/5B depending on the range.

... But of course, if Kanji is cautious, he can jump in and poke with j.C trying to bait your aa and fatal you ;_;

[Urichinan]

Oh, yeah. If you actually see him D throw, you can absolutely react with DP to win. Him trying D throw is him predicting you already want to do something, which is a bit risky for him since guessing wrong means you get your okizeme, which is bad times for Kanji. Again, saying "If he guesses right he gets a huge advantage" doesn"t offer much, since you were already shocked so of course you're in a tough spot.

But all this should probably be in kanji matchup discussion

... But of course, if Kanji is cautious, he can jump in and poke with j.C trying to bait your aa and fatal you ;_;

You shouldn't be anti-airing them until they are right at you, or have pressed a button anyway. There's no reason you should ever be hitting 2B before they are in range, because it's got head invincibility on the 1st frame (I think) so you'll be safe no matter what they do from that point. I try not to anti-air until they reach the tip of where 2B would hit, because from there, unless they hit a button it'll hit them before they touch the ground, and if they touch a button, they get counter hit. Obviously they could airdash or double jump, but you'll still be safe from that as well.

[Gyokuran]

I think that the match is in favor of S.Labrys, 2C makes too difficult to Kanji to approach and it have to take some risks to even touch you.

Just wait and punish their risks.

[Arifureta]

Your defence needs to be really top-notch when he does score his knockdown though.

[Sechs]

I agree about maintaining patience & defense, Kanji can break Asterious as easily as Mitsuru if given the chance. Maintaining 5D while you're not on the offence is key.

There are Kanji players that will literally bully Asterious to dictate the pace of the match and try to force you into Kanji's loving embrace. Those guys may be a rarity for now, but as time progresses their tactics will become more common.

[Adelheid]

Well, it's key to remember that while you're vulnerable without Asterius and need to protect him, Kanji is even more vulnerable without Take-Mikazuchi. If you can call him out and break his persona, then he has neither burst nor DP with which to escape from Massive Slaughter reset loops.

[Angry Guy of DE]

This matchup is a pain, not unwinnable or any real disadvantage, just a pain.

Getting shocked can easily cost you the round since Slabrys' wake-up isn't all that hot and it really becomes a 50/50 guess: will he throw or will he DP? Luckily outside of Counter-Hit, Kanji's combos don't add up to much without meter or OMB. Every Command throw hurts and a 2K health difference is really felt in this match. Getting the persona break is really good in this match as all of his options outside of just blocking go away so you can now start your pressure.

Slabrys' best strength, the oki, is crippled in this match since his DP will stop asterius if he touches him and you can't even safe jump it...only empty jump. Luckily its air-blockable but its heavily advised to spend some time in training mode to really learn when the active frames for that end as one mistake can really cost you in this match. 2C is useful but I have seen Kanji's j.B trade or beat it out if it isn't done before he jumped, some serious disjointed hitboxes or something.

It feels like you need to be the smarter and more patient player in this match as his DP can shut down most of your aggressive options and if you don't punish a whiffed command throw he can go to DP faster than you'd expect. EX's and Tetrochondria might be very useful here since his DP won't stop them and his supers aren't an option if you keep just out of his throw range.

[Adelheid]

Slabrys' best strength, the oki, is crippled in this match since his DP will stop asterius if he touches him and you can't even safe jump it...only empty jump. Luckily its air-blockable but its heavily advised to spend some time in training mode to really learn when the active frames for that end as one mistake can really cost you in this match.

As a point of reference, Massive Slaughter + rising j.A does in fact awesomely beat Kanji's general wakeup plans, since if he DPs j.A will go over him, recover, and let you block on the way down, jumping is unblockabled by the j.A to a combo to knockdown, and standing/rolling gets him eaten to a combo to knockdown. Not something you can always go for, but when you have the spacing right it is pretty good.

[Angry Guy of DE]

That so...I'll have to practice that to see how consistent that is. I figured that his hitbox would be too large and the j.A would catch him...I'll look for some match footage to see it in action. If thats true then oki is back in action and that also results in a card break for Kanji as well isn't it?

[Adelheid]

That so...I'll have to practice that to see how consistent that is. I figured that his hitbox would be too large and the j.A would catch him...I'll look for some match footage to see it in action. If thats true then oki is back in action and that also results in a card break for Kanji as well isn't it?

You don't break a card for beating his r action, unfortunately, lol. I should state that when you do the rising j.a this way, you have to delay it a bit, 'cause it will hit him on the way up. It needs to be active above him. If you need footage, though, I think I have a replay somewhere of me doing this to a Kanji, but maybe not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO6B-dgaF5c

found this not too long ago. you can pretty much completely disrespect and invalidate his r-action as an option.

This is awesome.

[Gyokuran]

So...5B while 5D active is just baiting DP, but without it don't, that's so good to know, thanks man.