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Urichinan

[P4A] Shadow Labrys vs. Mitsuru

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Really silly question but how do you guys punish her full screen charge? Is it unsafe on block? Should I try to airdash and hit her out of it?

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I think the way to fight against her is to stay the most deffensive as possible, her pokes are just too annoying just to risk, the matchup is like 6-4 mitsuru favor, or 7-3 in the worst case.

Bait the DP every time, and just be careful with your pokes, and 2C a lot, don't risk too much.

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Yeah... This is one of the matchups where I just let Asterios turtle until I get into poking range. That 5B is too strong. :<

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Indeed, staying across the screen is the best thing to do.

5B and 2B behind 2C and a command grab are the best ways to keep Mitsuru from approaching. And it stuffs her Coup Droit when Asterios is in front of you.

When going for oki never try to pressure, just bait a DP. After you do it they'll more than likely not try to DP, and you can go for a mixup or two. Then go back to baiting DP's. You can act like you're going to do a mixup by running up and then blocking, or airdashing over their head for a cross-up and block when you land. Normally you'll want to go with a laser mixup, since that gives you cover and it's hard for her to hit Asterios out of it.

Just play very cautiously, turtle, and when applying oki try to make them respect it.

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Gonna add: watch out for a possible super cancel after a blocked dp. I got caught by a couple of those and lost quite a significant chunk of health :vbang:

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Mitsuru definitely has the clear advantage against Shadow Labrys in terms of ground-to-ground and air-to-air. In other situations....not so much. Mitsuru's charge moves will get snuffed by j.B. And it's hard to anti-air her moves on reaction, so get used to cancelling her 2B into a 5B or 214A if it gets blocked. Also, you're gonna find yourself playing very defensively in this match, as Mitsuru has a lot of moves that can break your persona and get in on you for free. Just play very patiently, hold that 5D until the right opportunity, and play a careful oki game (as Getsu-ei has amazing hitbox).

On an interesting note, I found myself hitting Mitsuru in the air with a late 2B sometimes, simply because her jump normals hit my persona on her way down, which pauses her in the air for a few frames.

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What are some options out of the corner? The only things I've been able to do consistently are the obvious: DP, and Burst, which are risky choices by nature. Mitsuru's 2A easily outranges all of Slab's A normals, and punishes all her B normals before startup. I've tried to wait for the aerials, but her jump in isn't even touched by Slab's 2B it seems, on top of being seemingly too fast to react to. Cycling through my other choices, Asterious will never have an opportunity to move when I'm in the corner (typical, but just throwing it in there), Evasive roll is beaten out by what seems like everything because of where she sit, and I'd consider j.B (jumping in general) but she also has amazing anti airs.

This seems like a matchup where I can't do anything but react to her, but at the same time I can't figure out my tools to react to her with. :/ Can I get any help here?

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the 2A+B goes under her 5A if timed well, or more like it as slightly more range and can break it. It's not easy to do, but it's certainly one of the key of this matchup, as it gives us a free mixup behind this.

[rant]Mitsuru is so broken tier it's not even funny [/rant]

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214A is actually -7. It's still safe on block against most people due to it stepping back, but critically it's not safe against Mitsuru.

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Yeah, can't say I haven't noticed that :( For the life of me I can't seem to find any safe string vs Mitsuru whatsoever. Generally Asterius can cover the recovery on most of her moves, But vs Mitsuru it seems like nearly every single ounce of pressure I try to exert is dp'ed, and anything I try to do with Asterius that isn't EX is poked out. Most of the damage I've managed to get on Mitsuru comes from counterhit 5B's , DP's, and seemingly lucky j.B's...

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Its a hard matchup straight up, no use sugar coating it. Honestly most of S.Lab's hard fights only require the opponent to do basic things and you have to find a way to get around it. The thing you need to learn when you fight someone is whether they respect what you do or just mash dp when they see fit.

Unlike the Yu matchup Mitsuru's dp is airblockable so testing an opponent's habit of dp'ing on wake-up is important. My thought process is to always empty jump on the first knockdown, if they dp you'll get a FC off of 5B or 2B (and make them have to respect oki), or they may simply block and this is where Asterius comes in. Until you determine how dp happy they are use of 8C and D command is very good since Asterius is less likely to get tagged and 8C will catch most dp's you block (normally CH so you already have a 2K+ punish from it) or D will catch turtlers (again...2K). S. Labrys normally wants to make the enemy come to her and while Mitsuru can just AAA into mixups use of your sweep can catch her since sweep lowers your hitbox enough to dodge it (I believe). Awakening will give you a high risk / high reward reversal known as Brutal Impact A, this move makes people respect doing anything unsafe since its fast enough. Random Mitsuru 5B's to catch throws will eat this and this can also be an option if Mitsuru like to Coup' Midscreen in response to Asterius starting any move.

Be patient, you have alot of disadvantages in this match and you will eat dp's if you start airdashing in hoping Asterius can cover you. Don't instantly try to throw tech after AAA since 5B has throw invul. and that can lead to many FC 4K in the corner, just wait and test out dp, AOA, or evasive action...but don't try to tech until you see the exclamation point.

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It's pretty difficult to deal with, yeah! But it's not insurmountable by any means. As always with playing Shadow Labrys, when you have offense, the name of the game is "restriction" and you need to shut down your opponent's options. It's hard to do that against Mitsuru but it isn't impossible. Timing your Asterius moves to cover your mixup even if you can't time them to get combos out of your blockstrings is important. Just don't be stupid and predictable and get yourself DP'd out of your blockstring, and you can work your various mixup options when you're there with her. Neutral is where you really falter, though, but you do have ways to get in. Angry Guy, you say "S. Labrys normally wants to make the enemy come to her," I think that's you projecting your playstyle? That's not my feeling. I always want to press my offense and carefully work my way towards the opponent, and this isn't too different. Yes, you have to be patient, but that's not the same as being passive! I think if you wait for Mitsuru to get in, you are conceding the neutral game, which I think is really, really bad against her. It comes down to, I think, making her respect your options. If you know she wants to droit, 9j rising j.B for instance can be cool to make counterhits happen and get a minor combo. Sometimes I think it is okay to sacrifice cards by throwing out persona moves that make her "want to punish them." 5C DP is an important tool. Getting in your opponent's head is important especially in this matchup, because if you are passive then Mitsuru can really do whatever she wants and you want to make sure that's not how it plays out.

Likewise, when you get a knockdown, the name of the game is "Bait that DP!" 5C knockdowns especially can be good to set up safejump stuff to immediately press things to your advantage with your most obvious option, but otherwise recognize that they want to get a free out and exercise your various options to deal with that. When you can get inside your opponent's head, you can be "Shadow Labrys," and you can win, even against Mitsuru.

I wish I could write more but this train ride just ended so I have to leave for several hours ugh

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For the most part it feels like the match is over if I reach the corner without burst, so I've mostly been working on playing as conservatively without reaching the edge. I mainly feel like Slabyrs course of action depends on what she does which move she use with Asterius (mainly 2C, 5C for defense; 8C, 236C, or 5C for offense) but against Mitsuru the only way I've managed to get Asterius to cover an approach is with the 25 meter...

Anyway, thanks for the advice! if you have anything you want to add later, I'll take any I can get. For the most part I'll try working on safe jump setups in training mode and more refined blockstring/pokes and see how that goes. It's nice hearing multiple opinions on it regardless.

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@adelheid: Yeah I didn't really explain it in the right way...I'm not so much defensive as I am focused on baiting things and then pressing after the knockdown.

Due to mitsuru's dp (7x7 ass hitbox) 8C is a good option if you can't get a laser in a position where Asterius can't be hit. Be very hesitant on doing lasers raw since mitsuru's D moves have alot of range, pull you in on block, and lead to a painful combo if you get caught. Honestly this matchup has a large wager on how much the mitsuru player can throw out dp's and whether or not you can utilize (and protect) Asterius's moves so he won't get broken and leave you very exposed...always be aware of coupe's speed and range...but if a mitsuru always tries to punish with it perhaps it can baited, meter provided with 236236C or BI A...I might test that out on "unsafe" block strings.

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Well after some more tournies and playing Mitsuru's I tossing in some advice that I can give in relation to this matchup...

This matchup honestly is determined once you score a KD, after that is simply to learn whether you are playing the average person, or somebody that learns to respect your oki. I would say its best to stay in the air in this match for a couple of reasons, mostly because Mitsuru's 5A can shut down your normals due to its range and because her AAA > 5B > sweep / sweep feint / feint into throw / feint into 4B / feint into j.B overhead. The other reason to stay in the air is because any coup's done as an approach or to hit your persona leave her open for you to hit as you come down. As far as what you should persona-wise; 2C will help with screen control and any stray hit can convert into a KD, 8C helps to keep her from doing j.D to tag Asterius, and 236C for oki on the KD's you score in this fight.

Mitsuru's 2B can stuff alot of airdash j.B so approaches should be normal jumps to let you double jump and bait 2B and her dp. It has a good angled hitbox but it isn't as bad as Yu's so try to go over her to avoid it and also to help protect Asterius. Be careful of Bufudyne however, it is air unblockable and you won't be able to jump over it so its another reason to try and go over her on wakeup so it will miss you. If you play careful the dp will be nothing more than a 5B fatal counter magnet since it is air blockable and she can't do anything in the air until she lands, its adviced to start respect once she has 50 meter since 5B and 2B are slow and might not catch her in time.

As for Oki, you want this to go two ways: She just dp's and you airblock it into a fatal counter, she chooses to block and you get to do mixups into another KD. Getting broken is bad in this match so you might think that if she dp's your oki 4 times you'll get broken, this is why its important to be in the air and airblock the wakeup dp. If you get the KD from the air guillitine, the laser oki can actually be done so if she does wake-up dp you will block it and asterius stop the laser and often not get tagged at all. This should be done until the opponent learns and thats when the command grab should be used. alternate between empty jump and the j.A setup so that even if a wake-dp is done you can punish it.

As far as defensive options go, being in the corner is very dangerous and outside of blocking here are a few things I try to use depending on the situation. Challenge authority D might have slow startup but the amount of auto-guard time is valuable and can catch unwise button presses. The other reason to use this is because unlike the C version, the frame disadvantage is only about -4 (if I'm wrong please correct me) and even if asterius gets tagged by a super you will still be invulnerable while you are in your pose. Another thing I'm looking into is to jump and use the Challenge Authority coming down to bait wake-up dp's or wake-up bufudyne's and see whether or not your safe or even at advantage once you land from doing it.

My favorite option is Brutal Impact A, its a very fast, uninterruptable, reversal that is also very unsafe on block...but that is where asterius starts to come in. I've done it twice on streams where Mitsuru does AAA > 5B > sweep you can instant block the 5B and catch them on the sweep. Most people don't respect that move and unsafe moves can be punished with this move if done properly. Its actually funny to use in this match because you can use asterius and simply watch for the coup and BI A in response to it, just be aware of the range of it and what you can use it in response to. Asterius can help cover you if its blocked with 2C or laser so it can work as a strong way to stop people from trying to take a "safe" shot at asterius when you are midscreen from them.

This fight isn't that bad once you learn how to deal with her moves and start what you do best off a KD.

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