UmaiCakes Report post Posted August 17, 2012 very cool, are those SB.Garu necessary for the sideswitch unless you get CH 5D? Also for the SP totals I guess you are counting the first combo to setup as 75, and the meter cooldown should be over after Mahamaon > sweep, so you should be able to build a little before landing the next mixup into IK...else 125-150 SP cost (if you used SB.Garu in the setup combo) seems steep for Liz since she can kill in 2 combos with that much meter anyways Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 17, 2012 This is midscreen. Like, dead center midscreen. There's a lot of characters she can't kill from highly prorated combos midscreen, which is what the SB.Agi 236236C setup is for. Use SB.Garu as you see fit: if you need to cross up in order to get them into the Mahamaon, use SB.Garu. If not, you can get away with D.Garu and just walking forward through Agi to get them on the other side. You can also attempt a standard reset here from SB.Agi 5C(1) j.D to airthrow. The Mahamaon is there to secure a kill if you start a really highly prorated combo, and to force your opponent to react. The threat is huge and I don't think anyone in their right mind would simply ignore it. Making your opponent fidget is just as important (maybe moreso) that straight up mixups. (see: staggers) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted August 17, 2012 by no means is this a bad setup at all. i'll have to test this out myself later! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 17, 2012 I was messing around with the setup a lot more, and I noticed some things: -You cannot use Mamudoon unless you don't mind simply having SB.Agi knockdown. Mamudoon is easier to hit confirm into, however. (goes off faster because it has a longer cast time) -If the initial combo for the setup is 5AA 5B sweep SB.Garu 5B 5C(2) 2C 214B SB.Agi Mahamaon sweep, the final sweep won't knockdown (at least against Yukiko). Mayhaps there's an air unblockable setup with this WITHOUT Mahamaon involved. I know without Mahamaon, you can 5D and catch anyone who techs on the ground. Some thoughts. Requires testing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diveman Report post Posted August 17, 2012 This actually sounds quite interesting and scary for the opp, it might need some testing but I can see it having potential. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuchoyei Report post Posted August 17, 2012 5AAA D.Garu 5AA JD resets in corner against back, front tech. (They can't mash out of this) the JD timing is to jump cancel the 5AA and JD as soon as you jump. Also you can opt to finish the combo and reset after 5C(2) like normal (beats back, front, up tech). You can even do it after a JD reset, doing JD, 5B, 2AB, D.Garu, 5AA JD for another reset. 5AAA D.Garu 5A 2B dj.D works midscreen against back tech. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 17, 2012 we can OMC 5c guys, but not just by pressing abc like for other moves, you have to press 2abc for w/e reason. anyway, this means we're equipped to punish chicken blocking with 5c(2) OMC bufu or j.5d. no more waiting for paralysis to do a scary mixup. however there is no invul on these moves so mashing can definitely beat bufu and maybe j.5d. also, as with all her pressure, guess wrong and you're back to neutral with 1 less persona life. other things -there's a minimum time to press 2abc, in between the gap of 5c(1) and (2). any earlier and you get 5c(1) 2c(whiff). -pressing 2abc as early as possible will give liz a good amount of +frames as 5c(2) hits, though there isnt much that can be done from this? maybe short hop mixup? 2c c agi has been great for me so far. Ha! I messed around with this a little bit! Did you know you can OMC after the first hit of 5C, but the second hit will still go through? It looks like 5C(1) OMC (2) You can dash in and do whatever you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UmaiCakes Report post Posted August 18, 2012 Thinking on the IK setup...could you possibly drop Mahamaon after a blocked SB.Agi from fullscreen and still be +? Like say after Shuffle Time or bursting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlolxlolx Report post Posted August 18, 2012 yeah youre + a few frames but no one's gonna respect that lol, waste of meter tbh cuz shit disappears on block =/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 18, 2012 yeah youre + a few frames but no one's gonna respect that lol, waste of meter tbh cuz shit disappears on block =/ I don't recommend doing it on block, but as Oki it's useful. On block you leave yourself + as Elizabeth, but Thanatos still has to recover so be careful. Fun note: friend of mine said that if Thanatos gets hit while Mahamaon is going off (Elizabeth blocks the attack) that I don't lose a Persona card. I didn't see this for myself, but three other friends said it happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryofoong Report post Posted August 19, 2012 That IK setup is so cool. I want to see someone post a video on that because it's quite intricate. I'd do it myself but I'm about to leave on a trip for 5 days. If by the time I get back that isn't done, I'll put together a video myself! See you guys in 5 days! Looking forward to the new gimmicks I get to find out!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 19, 2012 I don't recommend doing it on block, but as Oki it's useful. On block you leave yourself + as Elizabeth, but Thanatos still has to recover so be careful. Fun note: friend of mine said that if Thanatos gets hit while Mahamaon is going off (Elizabeth blocks the attack) that I don't lose a Persona card. I didn't see this for myself, but three other friends said it happened. Scratch that: Useful on block. Landed it against a Teddie player that lives near me. He's really good (awful matchup. D=) I did SB.Agi 236236C and you recover fast enough to do whatever. I landed it twice. Once, he bursted right when I recovered to get rid of the setup, but I rolled through it into 5C. The second he tried throwing me out of my roll, but instead I got 5AA into whatever. It was hot. It's also useful to use against Teddie's unblockable super for the invincibility, but use Mudoon since it lasts longer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 20, 2012 Sorry, but I keep coming up with gimmicks because I can't land hits otherwise. This one is off AOA OMC Ghastly wail in the corner: Standard bnb > Mind Charge AOA OMC Ghastly Wail 5A 214A The 5A will catch them as they're falling, and they'll tech into the airunblockable 214A. Haven't tested it against forward teching yet. Will do that later. EDIT: Doing 5A 2B is MUCH better. It beats everything but Upwards techs and gives you an airunblockable setup all the same. Can combo into j.C SB.Garu for death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kiba Report post Posted August 20, 2012 The more the merrier! Tis all good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malakyoma Report post Posted August 20, 2012 Has anyone figured out a good D reset after a high proration tornado loop fatal counter combo? The j.B after SB Maragidyne they can tech after the first hit so jump cancel D wont catch them in time. j.a jc j.d works on forward and up tech, but doesn't reach back tech. J.C puts them on the ground and they can tech right away so no time to land 5.D. seems if you do Garu loops off fatal counter theres no good opportunity to reset. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 21, 2012 Has anyone figured out a good D reset after a high proration tornado loop fatal counter combo? The j.B after SB Maragidyne they can tech after the first hit so jump cancel D wont catch them in time. j.a jc j.d works on forward and up tech, but doesn't reach back tech. J.C puts them on the ground and they can tech right away so no time to land 5.D. seems if you do Garu loops off fatal counter theres no good opportunity to reset. Why not let them land and 5D/5C meaty mixup? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 21, 2012 Resets off throw in the corner: Throw FC 5C 2C 214B 2D dash 5AA 5B sweep SB.Garu 5B 5C(2) j.D reset Throw CH 5C 2C 214B 2D dash 5AA 5B sweep SB.Garu 5/2A 2B reset I'm really sorry about the double posts. =/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malakyoma Report post Posted August 21, 2012 I'm talking long fatal counter combos, like when feared 5b sweep SB.Garu[8~2], D.Garu[2], sweep, D.Garu[depends], 2.a 5.b sweep D.Garu[depends] 2.a 5.b 5.c(2) 2.c B.mabufudyne SB.Maragidyne. If i do j.b at the end of this then they flip out immediately and the typical j.b xjcx j.D doesnt work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synthesis Report post Posted August 22, 2012 I'm talking long fatal counter combos, like when feared 5b sweep SB.Garu[8~2], D.Garu[2], sweep, D.Garu[depends], 2.a 5.b sweep D.Garu[depends] 2.a 5.b 5.c(2) 2.c B.mabufudyne SB.Maragidyne. If i do j.b at the end of this then they flip out immediately and the typical j.b xjcx j.D doesnt work. Oh. Just do Maragidyne > Sweep into airunblockable resets/5D Sweep is special cancellable so you can do it into 214A or 214B. Since they'll be in the air, these will catch them. If you would rather not work with the timing on these resets (they can be difficult) you can instead just do Sweep > 5D. I know that sweep SHOULDN'T be cancellable into 5D, but it seems to work in this case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted August 22, 2012 I'm talking long fatal counter combos, like when feared 5b sweep SB.Garu[8~2], D.Garu[2], sweep, D.Garu[depends], 2.a 5.b sweep D.Garu[depends] 2.a 5.b 5.c(2) 2.c B.mabufudyne SB.Maragidyne. If i do j.b at the end of this then they flip out immediately and the typical j.b xjcx j.D doesnt work. you can do all of this from fear command throw? wow... what's the damage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlolxlolx Report post Posted August 22, 2012 like 5.1 or 5.2 iirc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted August 22, 2012 oh my goodness.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlolxlolx Report post Posted August 22, 2012 well....standard ch 5b 50 meter combo alrdy does 5k Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted August 22, 2012 what? ok, i'm definitely not doing optimal 5d combos. l need to get on that ASAP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xlolxlolx Report post Posted August 22, 2012 5d? youre reading it wrong bro ;o well standard fc 5d 25 meter combo nets like 4.5-4.6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
