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Kiba

[P4A] Elizabeth Tricks and Gimmicks Compilation (Updated 3/11/13)

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With your opponent's back completely against the corner, you can cross them up using j.B while remaining in front of them. On it's last hit, j.B actually hits behind Elizabeth if you do a backwards IAD before inputting j.B.

Visual example. I feel I must apologize for dropping the combo, recording gives me a bit of input lag.

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I'm sorry but against good players, it seems telegraphed. it seems like they'll realize they need to delay tech after the second 5c. I'm wondering though, can you react to the delay tech with a j.c instead? like timed correctly, can they beat both options?

EDIT: sorry meant to quote your post. this is about the bufu 5c reset.

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That is the inherent nature of gimmicks honestly. Once someone has seen a lot that Elizabeth has to offer, they'll come to expect a lot of it. The bufu > 5C reset is just a variation of the SB zio > 5C reset. That reset works because 5C is a discreet way to keep your opponent in the air as they tech. You could even do something like FC stuff > 2C > 5C > j.D, or even stuff > 5B (opponent is in air) > 5C > j.D. So long as the opponent is in the air, 5C > j.D will catch them on backward, forward, and neutral tech.

I can check that j.C thing tomorrow, it sounds interesting. If you were going for the j.D reset, you would be air turned, right? Wouldn't j.C not hit then (assuming Thanatos spawns on you as he does with j.D)? If they get hit with j.C at that, the only combo options are falling j.C CH > omc or falling j.C FC > omc. It's harder to confirm.

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i forgot about the air turn but what i meant was if they delay tech, can you do 5c j.c (yellow beat ) for knockdown

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I don't think anyone has mentioned B Mabufudyne > D Maragidyne oki yet. If the opponent shakes out of ice on time, they're forced to block Maragidyne and Liz gets one or two mix-ups for free. Best one is IABD > air turn jA or IABD > land > 2A. She can also do jump forward > air back dash - varying the timing slightly will have Liz either land on the same side or the opposite side, it's quite ambiguous.

I really like this oki situation so I got for it whenever I can. I found a use for SB Mabufudyne to set it up: 5AAA > SB Mabufudyne > 2C > meaty D Maragidyne. Unlike the above setup where the opponent can choose to not shake out of ice, this is much more difficult to avoid.

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I asked sansprotocol ( or was it kiba?) to test this for me before USA got the game, i think one of them had a chance to play before us.

He said that it was(quite) unsafe, I forgot why but have you tried it on higher level players?

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I think that 214B > 214D oki isn't very good. It's really easy to get out of since if your opponent is fast enough, they can just shake out, and jump away. Even if the person isn't really fast on the shake, you'll just get a yellow beat ender. Low prorate 2C > 214D oki is better since you're getting hard knockdown before the 214D, and the opponent isn't just going to jump away. 214D oki has been really popular in high level JPN play with players like Okusan.

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5C > 2ABC [for OMC] > dash 5B > 5D

Grab reset, except the persona starts right next to them and gives less time to react. I caught lots of people with it at Final Round.

CHARACTER SPECIFIC: 5C > 2C > B Bufu > 5C

On some tall characters (Yu, Mitsuru, etc) the 5C hits and you can squeeze in a bit more damage. On other characters, 5C whiffs and Thanatos runs behind them! It's really hard to tell the difference between 5C and 5D (both fatal counter for huge damage) and it's very difficult to stop him.

I think that 214B > 214D oki isn't very good. It's really easy to get out of since if your opponent is fast enough, they can just shake out, and jump away. Even if the person isn't really fast on the shake, you'll just get a yellow beat ender. Low prorate 2C > 214D oki is better since you're getting hard knockdown before the 214D, and the opponent isn't just going to jump away. 214D oki has been really popular in high level JPN play with players like Okusan.
It's only really bad against characters who escape it for free (Naoto, Teddie, Yosuke). if they jump forward then they risk eating 2B or unbreakable air throw. If they jump back then they're still brought into melee range eventually for elizabeth to get a mix-up (2B OMC for example). If they don't shake out at all, then Liz gets more damage without having to spend meter on SP Maragidyne. In my opinion it's strictly better than just doing SP Ragi every time.

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Active discussion in a Liz thread makes me very happy :yaaay:.

Anyway, you make a good point Eshi. I was under the assumption that any character could jump away from D flames though, kinda like how you could jump away from SB flames. The problem with the opponent jumping towards is that they have more control of the situation than you do, at least the way that I'm looking at it. Air grab is easily stuffed, and some characters have options that can subvert 2B. I do agree though that it is better than just ending combos in SB flames, and if they get yellow beated, you can still end the combo in 2AB > 2D for some extra poison damage.

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air throw beats most of the options that beat 2B though. the first videos where I saw this tactic, the japanese Liz player kept air throwing players trying to avoid it. The situation is much more favorable than jumping away from SB flames where Liz is stuck in recovery. What worries me most are the times that people instant block the fire and randomly back dash out, but I don't think it can be executed consistently. o_O

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So air grab is covering 2B then, huh? Is it possible to go for 2B clash OS then (against characters like Yu/Mitsuru)? This seems more interesting now than ever.

You don't have to IB > dash to get out of SB flames afaik. I believe you can dash & evasive action to get out for free.

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So air grab is covering 2B then, huh? Is it possible to go for 2B clash OS then (against characters like Yu/Mitsuru)? This seems more interesting now than ever.

You don't have to IB > dash to get out of SB flames afaik. I believe you can dash & evasive action to get out for free.

Yeah it's possible, ZomB does it every time I leave a small hole. It just annoys me that even in times where they HAVE to block it, they can still avoid it sometimes by accident.

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In regards to 2C > 214C oki setup, I was thinking of things that you can do while your opponent is in blockstun. Rather than just air turn IAD > 2A/j.A 50/50 mixup, I have realized that air turn IAD j.A or j.B (as in, with your back facing the opponent still) is really good. J.A as well as j.B have these really cool hitboxes where they'll hit behind them on the last few frames (which is really more noticeable on the last few frames of these attacks). I had posted something about using j.B to cross-up on the same side, and it's pretty much the same with j.A. The only issue here is that after the first time, it's not so much of a guess for the opponent if you're committing to pressing j.B when you're in the air; other than that, the timing can be kinda weird as well.

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David, if youre still doing that gimmicks CMV

Corner combo: 5AAA(blocked) DP Microdash 5A 5C(2) 2C B.Bufu AoA OMC Ghastly Wail

it'll only work maybe once or never at all :(

Also got corner FC 5C(2) 2C SB.Zio 5C(2) 2C B.Bufu 5C(one of the hits whiff) 2C(whiffs) Ghastly Wail

for those non hoppers.

This is the stupid stuff that i practice instead of grinding out garu combos and liz fundamentals. :v:

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On DP FC, can't you get more mileage off of it? I'm not sure of it's exact proration value (but I expect it to be shitty, like 500+), but I think you may be able to get like 6k off of it maybe? Is the 5AAA after 214C oki? I imagine it being retardedly hard to see after flames + the pillar of cards.

I haven't tried it, but that bit about discouraging jump-outs makes me wonder if you can do Ghastly Wail post j.C air hit; if so would Thanatos stay at his spot relative to where he was in the air? It might be cool instead of just doing meaty 5D. Would be cool if you could combo maragidyne SB after it from fullscreen, too.

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Well its definitely got shitty proration.

Without the ghastly wail, we're talking like 2k damage here. Although i didn't try any garu stuff, maybe you can throw one in? SB zio is definitely out.

well the idea is to do it after a failed mixup attempt so 214C oki would be one of those situations.

ghastly wail after j.C doesn't sound like it could work at all

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Sweep > SB Maragidyne combo ender in the corner. You can do Memento Mori or whatever you want. If the person jumps out, they'll get hit by flames (or at the very least, be forced to block the returning flames). If they don't jump, you get your grab or mix-up.

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Against a person blocking near the corner, do 236AB OMC > run up AOA. SB Zio stays active super long and covers almost the whole startup animation of AOA, then ends just before AOA connects. No one sees this coming the first time!

This doesn't hide Elizabeth very well, and unfortunately this is a one time mixup compared to the others. The limitation weakens its usefulness.

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This doesn't hide Elizabeth very well, and unfortunately this is a one time mixup compared to the others. The limitation weakens its usefulness.
Yes. Of all the things in this thread it is the most definitionally accurate "gimmick", lol. I was wondering if imitating AOA's start-up with nothing and then briefly running forward to 2A would look convincing enough to trick people that have seen it before.

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Yea that's an option. Perhaps I ought to experiment with it more, though I'm not really one to use SB.Zio on an opponents guard.

Also, thanks to the guys for coming up with the gimmicks. They've been very useful.

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Yay, We European finally get to have fun with this game !

I found something funny, though not incredibly useful, and I didn't really know where to post it so.. Don't know if it has already been said, but 5A jC OMC allows Liz to do various things

-The usual high /low, mixup involving jA or 2A/throw, though it is unsafe and quite easily readable, compared to 2B OMC jA/2A. Careful with the distances, though, as the jA has quite a poor range.

-Air dash jC D magarudyne : the crossup that has already been found you can make this really ambiguous by pressing the second jC early to avoid the crossup effect.

-Air turn dash jC D magarudyne. pretty strict timing and works only on crouchers, but it does fake cross-up/cross-up EDIT doesn't work, forget it^^ ,

-fun fact (though useless) : if you do any persona attack after crossing up with the air dash after the first or second jC, the persona is summoned behind the opponent. As if someone would ever let you do that, but we never know^^

Problem is that pretty much all of this loses to jump, evasive action, decent anti-airs or DP, but if you feel like you know your opponent well enough :

-Backdash jD : This will catch any normal jump. Since Thanatos stays in place, the command throw comes out pretty fast. Liz recovers quickly from the backdash, so it is possible to punish DP mash against a few characters, in exchange for a persona card. if you opponent resort to high jump, you can throw a 2B on anything except backwards movement. Loses to doing nothing, or evasive action, or moves with 3/4 or fullscreen range (Coup Droit...) but it is still quite safe after that.

- You can follow-up with any other persona attacks, as Thanatos stays in place. Although it is asking to be Persona broken, you can get out of trouble without much harm. jB can be also a good option in this case

Then again just watching/reacting makes this pretty useless, but it is still surprising the first times you use it, and can lead to pretty decent combos on a feared opponent.

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Elizabeth fuzzy guard setup by Bace. As you can see by looking at the inputs, this setup is unmashable. In other words, there's no escape and the opponent has to eat the mix-up. To more-or-less quote Bace:

"Spin state in this game has recovery on it; you can block but your character is forced in the standing animation even if you crouch. The recovery doesnt allow for you to do anything but block or burst, you cant mash at all."

I'll also post 5Comcダッシュ5B5D by Okusan Nikuya. This is practically the same thing as 2C OMC > 5B > 5D, but with extended range.

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Elizabeth fuzzy guard setup by Bace. As you can see by looking at the inputs, this setup is unmashable. In other words, there's no escape and the opponent has to eat the mix-up. To more-or-less quote Bace:

"Spin state in this game has recovery on it; you can block but your character is forced in the standing animation even if you crouch. The recovery doesnt allow for you to do anything but block or burst, you cant mash at all."

I'll also post 5Comcダッシュ5B5D by Okusan Nikuya. This is practically the same thing as 2C OMC > 5B > 5D, but with extended range.

I already saw the 5C OMC > 5B > 5D and worked it into my game plan. I didn't notice Bace uploaded a new video, though, so thanks for pointing it out Elochai.

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Well even if P4A Elizabeth is not really the center of attention these days, I think I found a neat mixup with Liz, based on what we already knew about C garu mixups . If people get a bit too used to 2B OMC trick you have a nice option midscreen that is C Garu OMC. Depending on how you're able to control the tornado you can get some pretty sick stuff. You get the usual high/low/throw mixup but you can also get cross-up options and both standing and crouching opponents. it's a bit unsafe and very hard to get consistently though. still here you go

High : 2A/5B> C Garu > hold [9] until you're just above the opponent 2>OMC>jA

Low/Throw : same but with empty jump 2A/throw

Cross-up High : 2A/5B> C Garu [9] 3 > OMC> 44>air turn > jA

Cross-up low/throw 2A/5B> C Garu [9] 1 > OMC >2A/throw

Double cross-up : 2A/5B> C Garu [9] > OMC> 44> jA/jB

If you feel confident that the opponent will be surprised by this, you can replace the jA by D garu for big combos. Unfortunately, I can't record this, but, however hard it is to pull off (mainly because the timing is different on standing and crouching opponents so you really have to look at where you are when you're doing this and adapt), and even if it can be DPed, the mixups are for the most part really hard to see. Oh and you can jD if your opponent is holding jump back. Hope it can be somewhat of use !

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