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Zakuta Asura

[^C] Baiken [STRAT]

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WTF FRC ON YZS! O_O THat's cool! But it's too bad it won't hit if you FRC it. Hmmm... I would say it's not being too useful. But hey, I don't know. I'm just saying.

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I was talking to the person who gave me the news, I thought it'd make her hi-lo game a bit better, as you should have height to land an instant overhead as well as air dash. Dunno if it'd be worth the 25% but more options are always good. *plans sum fuzzy guard shit*

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i see gimmicks a la air BR FRC.

Ditto. But take this into consideration:

Yozansen rc overhead to loop is 50% tension. Any jc'able move to a yozansen frc -> airdash, j.hs, land, s, hs, board, penguin loop (or however loops work now I haven't been watching as many ac vids as I should be). Therefore you now have penguin slide loop abilities with 25% tension that will probobly do more damage than a 50% tension rc'd yozansen that connected.

think about it

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if that shit is true, then we can combo from jHS!!! think about it, the only thing you can cancel from a jHS is YZN or Tatami, the tatami wont hit (if you like in a combo), but if you cancel it in to YZN, FRC, and then do like... jS jD... nice... jHS (c.hit), land, HS, Tatami (frc perhaps), jS jD (frc) dash jHS yzn (frc) jS jD and so forth... that was just an exampel, but i hope this is true...

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btw. Zakuta, how did you get hold of that information? I'm still kinda suspicious, and photots från the magazine or something?

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yzs frc...i think it might not be good unless its gonna stop you while your jumpin esp for those who are predicting it gives them time to air throw but for those that dont predict may lead into some nice setups/ corner combos but still risky esp if like you said it doesnt hit

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it isn't going to be risky 1) they will fear it not being frc'd 2) low yozansen frc -> airdash j.hs will fish counterhits like crazy, then land, s, hs, kill please learn mindgame. thank you.

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Shinjin: Zakuta said he got that info from the latest Arcadia magazine.

Ditto. But take this into consideration:

Yozansen rc overhead to loop is 50% tension. Any jc'able move to a yozansen frc -> airdash, j.hs, land, s, hs, board, penguin loop (or however loops work now I haven't been watching as many ac vids as I should be). Therefore you now have penguin slide loop abilities with 25% tension that will probobly do more damage than a 50% tension rc'd yozansen that connected.

think about it

Are you talking about low YZS FRC ad.j.HS against an opponent in the corner (so that the airdash doesn't take you past the opponent)? or are you already implying that YZS is low enough that the airdash will "push" you into the opponent?

In either case, I can see what you're saying, but I think you may get better results by doing YZS FRC cross-up on wake-up. You might be able to airdash early to cross back over, or airdash a tiny bit late to airdash into the opponent, and you might then do either j.HS or j.S to lock them down (the way Sol will do falling j.HS or j.S on okizeme).

Additionally, once you condition your opponent to expect a YZS FRC on okizeme (which may not take much conditioning, depending on how popular the tactic becomes), you could use it as a slightly expensive wake-up uppercut bait. It may not balance out, depending on how poor her ground punishment options are, though >_>)

BTW, I don't see the comparison between YZS RC stuff and new YZS FRC ideas. When I attempt a TK YZS mix-up, I can usually hit-confirm on the YZS itself (if it hits, you have more than enough time to negative-edge your RC into falling tatami), so I don't see why you would try to sell YZS FRC as a better alternative to YZS RC just because one uses less tension than the other. Their uses are different.

This isn't to say you're incorrect in assessing the damage possibilities from YZS FRC mix-ups; rather, the way you're trying to compare is like trying to compare "apples to oranges", so to speak.

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it isn't going to be risky

1) they will fear it not being frc'd

2) low yozansen frc -> airdash j.hs will fish counterhits like crazy, then land, s, hs, kill

please learn mindgame. thank you.

i dont know bout your comp there mr kevin but mine tends to read a lot and see a lot and a ad hs would not work against the ppl i play, but you know whatevers. now rtl makes a good point w/ the cross up yzs frc into a back dash k is a good idea

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back dash k

This reminds me -- for anyone that was watching the Beru matches from the 26v26 team matches at GameChariot a few months ago, do you know why he kept doing "meaty j.K" on okizeme? I thought he screwed up his air tatami input at first, but there were too many times where he couldn't have been trying for a tatami.

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cause if you time it right you cant be thrown, and it has mixup-properties... thats why he did it. (and I think we all should call him Bell, I kinda think thats what he is going for) and yeah, I know he said he got in arcadia, but ppl @ dustloop tend to talk alot of smack so I would like some raw piece of evidence.

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i dont know bout your comp there mr kevin but mine tends to read a lot and see a lot and a ad hs would not work against the ppl i play, but you know whatevers. now rtl makes a good point w/ the cross up yzs frc into a back dash k is a good idea

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

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I thought I posted again on the arcadia subject - I guess I didn't actually hit the post button :/ In any case, I'll probably get the latest arcadia next week so I can clarify for anyone here who ain't buying into it yet (there's a lot of information regarding the game apparently, so I'm gonna see what I can fish out from it). I think the combo aspect from this FRC sounds cool. Would make up for the lack of cool D-Loop combos from Slash :)

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If you're looking to stop 6P's on wake up with AD stuff, then a low AD to [P-P-K] is usually used as the j.P can hit low and fast enough to stop 6Ps ([s-P-K] is only better used once the opponent has realized that they can't 6P a low AD j.P (especially tall characters)). The meaty AD j.K was delayed lots and unless there's some hidden properties to it then it shouldn't beat 6P's on wake up. I'll probably test soon ;0

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Erm, a j.HS from a low YZS (FRC) will NOT work, IMO. I'm sure you guys know how slow Baiken's j.H starts up. You might see her sword out already but if it hasn't started up completely it doesn't have a hitbox.

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Only against characters without uppercuts? I thought the whole point of it was making it reversal-safe

Could someone please clarify this? What makes Baiken's j.k unfit as a safe meaty?

The frame data doesn't say anything about landing recovery or anything, so why would a properly timed j.k be vulnerable to uppercuts?

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No priority/invincibility/not Sol/not Eddie/not Slayer (/end badjoke) etc (just about anything AA beats it in my experience). Although I sometimes get a free CH on my buddies when I mess up the IAD tatami, you'd have to take a chance with it. I guess someone means getting that kick out so that the opponent eats the kick and can't do anything about it but even then I don't know if it's worth doing. Tatami Tatami Tatami.... If for some reason I miss my IAD Tatami, which nowadays is quite a lot, I improvise be it guarding and countering or just FDing said opponent back out of my face. Not alot of okizeme (I spell that right?) options with her though that's not saying you can't get lucky with a couple of her normals or two.

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No priority/invincibility/not Sol/not Eddie/not Slayer (/end badjoke) etc (just about anything AA beats it in my experience).

Well, ok, but all of this shouldn't matter if you are doing it with safe meaty timing (you know, like in street fighter 2? When you time the air move as meaty and land just after it, forcing the opponent to block, cuz you can land and block the reversal if they choose to use it? Also called safe jumps?), which is how it looks like the japanese are using the move...

And if they aren't using the move as safe meaty, there's not much of a point in using it on oki, is it? So why would they be doing it? I don't think that's just a case of missed tatami, because... well:

1-they are japanese, and therefore robots.

2-those are way too much of those missed tatamis even for us flesh bags.

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I understand what you're saying, all in all I say that this is rather difficult to explain *the J.k anyway* and what have you for Baiken because I don't think this has ever really crossed my mind. When I think of the wakeup game J.k just does not cross my mind at all for meaty wakeup though I'm not saying it couldn't be used for such... As a Baiken player I want to be as safe as possible without putting myself in deep shit (Yeah I do that enough already) and not take any risks with fruitless rewards. I'd say it matters - if say the person were to IB the kick you'd probably be fucked at that point unless you did it at a good height to maybe throw in a little dust, jump away, YZN etc ...but again I'm no frame expert and I do not study frame detail so I'm sure someone with the knowledge can set us all straight and why put yourself in a bad position as Baiken? - just going by what I've done in my experience. I'd sooner come down with J.HS/Tatami all day. By the way, what are you referring to as the Japanese using the normal as a safe meaty? Are there any new AC Baiken vids of this showcasing what you are talking about?

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