[^C] Baiken [MEDIA]

[rtl42]

what file format are the vids?

[tolore]

They are AVI's.

[Rinse-n-Repeat]

I don't know if everyone saw yet, but i have some matches of me using Baiken and i would like to get everyone's take. Critique are always welcomed and thnx ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFKgRhzsXYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_n4NsTdWss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaFIo5NBe5M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=creg9UEocKI&feature=related

Sorry that the last two have lack of audio...something was up with my video capturing device then, but the other vids show that I dealt with it.

[tolore]

I'm in the middle of the first video, so far it seems pretty good. A couple things though, you waste a lot of meter in your combos. Sometimes you do blue romans that you can't combo off of, and some times you roman stuff during combos and get only a tiny bit of extra damage. Meter is REALLY important for baiken, without blue romans you can't pressure very long, and without red romans you don't have good mix up. So once you're looping them in the corner doing a blue roman to extend the combo is often not worth it, and using 2 blue romans is absolutely not worth it. 5A is an awesome tool for wake up that I haven't seen you use at all. It's low/throw mixup when you're low on meter. If you have 50% for TK yozansen red roman it's high/low/throw completely unreactionable mixup. It's super cool. I'll edit/post again when i'm done watching. edit: Beggining the round with suzuran is high risk low reward, don't do it. wake up super is also usually not that good. Most of the stuff it beats is also beaten by block counter/block run away. Also if you tag someone with a j.d and roman and air dash, if it's going to kill them do AD->j.s->j.d It's guaranteed to work while AD->tatami is harder to time and won't work from some spacings. edit again: Just finished the second one. More on wasting meter. You need to learn your spacings so you know when you need to FRC/RC and what to follow your FRC/RC's with. there's a lot of times where you FRC when you could have combod them without spending meter at all, and there were times when you FRC/RC'd and followed upwith something that didn't work. Your pokes also need a little bit of work, sometimes you throwout moves when the enemy is really far away from you that have very little chance of hitting. edit the 3rd: use your anti air(6p) more often, it's an excellent anti air that nets pretty good damage, it's very useful against ino. Gold bursts in general aren't very useful, your bursts in general are in weird places. work on your IAD tatami's.

[Rinse-n-Repeat]

Alright thnx tolore. I definitely see what you were pointing out. I do tend to waste meter too much =/ I have one question, which is ummm... wat is 5A?

[Hellmonkey]

5P I'm sure he means, lol.

[zdravkelja]

BlazBlue sneaked in

[Shinjin]

I only watched a bit, I can quickly give some general advice: research combos (waste less tension, get knockdown, etc.) waste less tension (partially in the above) research counterhit-properties (so you can optimize the reward from them) there is pretty much no reason to do 2P in the way that you are using it. 2K is faster, and has a certain forward-momentum that will give you better options for combos. optimize okizeme and mix it up more than you are (but since you have to score more knockdowns aka optimize your combos it kinda comes with that) since you seem to pretty new to baiken, but not supernew to GG so. Just try to understand baiken better and think about how to optimize and utilize her abilities even better- start of by doing that and keep it up and you and your IN-friend should discuss the matchup more, so it won't look as mashy as it does atm. still pretty decent though, keep up the good work. as away if you have more questions nice that even in the states some ppl are still playing Guilty Gear (aka best game ever)

[tolore]

haha yeah, as much as I would have like GG to remain my main game my whole area is BB now, gotta stick with the times. 5a is totally supposed to be 5p.

[Hellmonkey]

over my winter break some of the people around my area might want to play casuals again, i'll see if i can get some recorded for fun

[rtl42]

this isn't in particular reference to RnR's vids, but i was wondering if you could elaborate this point a bit more:

Gold bursts in general aren't very useful

?

[Hellmonkey]

I wouldn't say it's not useful, because Baiken requires meter to play both offensively and safely, but it's almost always a better idea to save your burst to either prevent any big damage on you, or to force the opponent into burst safe routes/straight out baiting it when they are about to get a big combo or finish the round. Not using your burst is an important habit to get into, or it will just get read every time once your opponent picks up on that fact that you don't save it. One case gold burst really comes in handy though is if you try to wakeup throw someone who doesn't seem like they can get out of range. If they don't manage to get a jump or backdash in, you are practically guaranteed to either throw them or goldburst their throw bait (option select it). I have found that saving your burst to use defensively (only after you get hit) can be extremely effective at reversing the momentum of the match; however, throwing out a gold burst on wakeup seems more like folding to me, admitting you can't block them, and generally doesn't shift the match as much (I certainly don't mind getting gold bursted, since it means I don't have to worry about it when I do land a hit). To me, it's much more annoying to connect with something nice and be ready to do full combo, even blow meter on it, but get that taken away than it is to adjust my game to take the opponent's full meter into consideration. Once you know the opponent likes to use gold burst, it's pretty easy to watch out for too.

[tolore]

Yeah, it's not that gold bursts aren't useful to HIT with, if you get 'em with a gold burst it' great. But the advantage you lose by not saving it to use on defense(especially with baikens defense rating) is tremendous. Also like hellmonkey said, if you notice someone gold bursting it's really easy to read them.

[Rinse-n-Repeat]

nice that even in the states some ppl are still playing Guilty Gear (aka best game ever)

I second that sentiment! ^_^ thnx for the advice.

over my winter break some of the people around my area might want to play casuals again, i'll see if i can get some recorded for fun

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more of your fights Hellmonkey.

[Vyers]

I'll throw in my two cents. Baikens ideal dust combo is: 5d>8>j.s>j.h hold 8 (up)>j.s, release 8,j.d>j.sd > j.d> AD j.sd =181 damage vs Sol This one has very strict timing and it's difficult to get the last two hits in. You can reverse the order of j.s and j.h after the 5d connects, but that only lands you one more damage, and j.h won't connect after 5d at max range. An easier, but not as damaging one is: 5d> hold 8, j.sssd, release 8> j.sd> AD j.sd> j.d = 173 damage vs Sol You won't get quite as much damage, but this is much more effective then what you were using, and you can switch to the high damage one once you're comfortable with it. Also if you miss the last j.d you (usually) still get a knock down. Against Ino you don't need to frc tatami to connect with BnB. Super jump after the tatami and you can connect j.psd. It's a little easier to catch her with j.p if you SJ straight up instead of forward. If you do launch with FRC tatami use j.sd it nets you damage equal or greater to j.psd. (always more if you follow up the j.d with something) Be careful using 2H> 2D. It's possible for your opponent to shake out of stagger in time to block/ beat out 2D if they're paying attention. If you connect 6p against standing opponent you can combo it into TK youzansen. I noticed that you rarely use counters other then Sakura/Ouren. Ouren is very dangerous to use I recommend using Mawarikomi instead, Most people I play catch me with air throw or something every time I use Ouren, even if it's the first time I've used it in like 6 games. Sakura FRC is very good, Sakura without FRC or RC gets you killed, make sure you have 25%. I never saw you use Youshijinn, this move is very risky I recommend only using it after blocking a move with guaranteed counter hit, normal hit/ blocked youshijin = pain. I didn't see you use Baku either, like Sakura it's very good. Baku comes out faster then Sakura, but has much less frame advantage on block and somewhat less invincibility. You need a counter hit Baku to combo off it, but you can get more damage with it then Sakura in nearly all situations. Unlike Youshijin normal hit/ blocked Baku is safe. You can also have great fun with Baku followups. block>412D>P followup> H seal, will prevent your opponent from jumping, dashing or using the H button (no throws:keke:) for a limited time. (also you can do curse followups after normal hit Baku). If you're close enough when you land 2s on standing opponent you can follow it up with f.s> JC j.d for knockdown/ frc the J.d into dashing tatami into dustloop. J.d whiffs on short characters though. Overall your Baiken's not bad. I hope this advice helps you out. Non typo edit: I just realized you live in Mass. You should check out the New England thread, we have a decent scene spanning VT/NH/MA/CT. We have the occasional meet up in MA or CT. The ACT series is a bimonthly GGAC/SF4/BB/Random games tournament that used to be held at Digital Mayhem in Wallingford CT, DM closed so ACT will probably be moving to Battle Grounds in Vernon CT. New York and New Jersey often come to ACT as well.

[Shinjin]

You need a counter hit Baku to combo off it (baku)

Actually you dont need a counterhit to combo off Baku. On normalhit you can combo into 2k 5s etc. Just be careful so you don't time the 2k wrong, 'cause then you will get the followup and it wont combo aka you die. So you do a baku, confirm if its either coutnerhit or normalhit. If it is a normalhit, do 2k 5s. Then confirm if they are crouching or standing. If they are standing and are tall enough, do 5s to jD (Ino is also tall enough). If they are crouching, and close enough, you can do 2k 5s tatami etc. Otherwise, do 2k 5s 2s. And of course, if its counterhit you can do dashin 5s 5hs tatami or 6k tatami etc for that broken damage (and aircounterhit is untechable, do dashin 2s 5s jS jD or like 5s 2d js jD etc.)

Me and Yonasu(sl) capped some games yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x9a6TePjUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7UjB9dr1CQ

Feel free to watch.

[Vyers]

Cool I didn't know you can connect 2k after non counter hit Baku, I'll practice confirming normal/counter hit.

(and aircounterhit is untechable, do dashin 2s 5s jS jD or like 5s 2d js jD etc.).

For air counter hit followup I do 6h>2d>JC>j.sd. It nets you a little more damage midscreen, might do less if you extend it in the corner since 6h lowers the guard bar so much.

Does 2d hit higher then c.s? I noticed in your first video you used 2d to catch Slayer on the way down after landing a counter hit tatami, and later after connecting a j.k. I've caught him with c.s on the way down from a j.k launch before, but the timing is very tight.

[Shinjin]

Does 2d hit higher then c.s? I noticed in your first video you used 2d to catch Slayer on the way down after landing a counter hit tatami, and later after connecting a j.k. I've caught him with c.s on the way down from a j.k launch before, but the timing is very tight.

Yeah, 2D has a pretty huge vertical hitbox. Its pretty much bnb by now to do 2D after jK or a close kabari-tetsuzansen hit and then go into a aircombo. And of course you also have the tatami into 2d hj-combos on potemkin and robo. So yeah, rather use 2D than c.S to make sure it hits.

And 5s 2d, and especially 2s 5s are pretty brustproof so I like to do those off the counterhit instead (i might not always succeed with it though, but thats just execution). I only use 6H if I want to focus on okizeme midscreen, and then I do like 6H iad jP jD for a fastfall. So its all active choice's by my.

[Vyers]

So I finally have some matches recorded. (The videos are low quality so it might be hard to make stuff out):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axakmU813Eo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0pvUzOKwZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbDyFup60nE

I would appreciate any advice/constructive criticism.

[tolore]

I'll be commenting as I watch the videos. First thing, random suzuran is really dangerous against HOS, his forcebreak is a low and leads to damage, and it's like his longest ranged move so they like to use it at neutral sometimes. You only got a light punish, but it could have been worse. The okizime fire spikes(I forget what they are called) are really dangerous and really confusing, they aren't low so you don't need to crouch them, and I believe faultlessing or not faultlessing and standing or not standing all change whether it's a cross up or not. Also watch out for IAD's against HOS, he can sue the same move to slide under you and get a counter hit into MASSIVE damage. Also don't burst the fire spike until he jumps up and tries to hit you, if he's gonna bait your burst MAKE him bait it, don't let him auto bait it. after mid screen throws why don't you do IAD tatami oki? I'll watch the other 2 and post comments later

[Rinse-n-Repeat]

Saw the first vid...nice match against marlin. I'm not one to really speak especially since i lack matchup experience against HOS, but u seem to get hit by his fire spike overdrive a lot. Also, I'm not sure but i think the CH P-counter even caught you off guard lol. I like how you began to adapt to HOS's attacks as the matches got on, with the S and 2S poking. And you have to watch out for the tick-throws although there were times where you reacted perfectly with 2P's and such. Enjoying the match vids and hope there are more to come. ^_^

[Vyers]

@ tolore: Yeah I shouldn't be using Suzuran so much against HOS and in general. I've been trying to run in FD cancel block to gain ground instead, but I find Suzuran to tempting sometimes because you can block multiple hits and usually get closer in. It's almost like learning not to reversal super or throw on wake up; it's easier then trying to guess and block a mix-up, but leaves you open longer and is easy to punish. Regarding Gunblaze: I try to block Gunblaze crouching, because if you crouch it doesn't cross you up; you can guard either direction. However if you crouch and FD it does cross you up as he passes you which makes you automatically drop the FD and take the hit. I automatically FD most specials/overdrives to avoid chip damage; I know I shouldn't against Gunblaze, but it hasn't translated to my muscle memory yet. I didn't know HOS can use Gunblaze as an antiair. I'll try to be more careful jumping in on him in the future. You're very right about not bursting Gunblaze; I'll work on that as well. I don't usually do IAD tatami for oki on far opponents, because I still can't quite do it consistently, especially on the right side of the screen. When I screw up IAD tatami I either get IAD j.k (which does nothing, but get me close to them, maybe leaving enough time for a mix up before they stand), or jumping tatami (which fails to close the distance with the opponent or recover quickly enough to do anything else). I'll try to get in the habit of using IAD tatami for oki once I can do it more consistently. @ Rinse-n-Repeat: Yes MarlinPie was using Savage Fang in ways I didn't expect, as a counter to my pokes, and to chip me to death during a Suzuran run. I need to watch his meter more carefully. Tick throws are the bane of many Baiken players, myself included. I especially have trouble with May's jump in meaty j.h tick. Sometimes I accidentally throw out a counter when it's too risky. When this happens I often assume I'm about to be punished and start looking for my chance to burst or tech out of the coming combo, this time I actually got the counter hit, and was too late to follow it up because I wasn't expecting it. Thanks both of you for your comments and suggestions so far. I might have some more match vids after Final Round next month.

[tolore]

I used to do the same thing for gunblaze, I've only recently trained myself not to faultless it. as for no IAD tatami's, that's fine for a tournament, just make sure you attempt it every time in non tournament environments. It's important to try the stuff you SHOULD be doing as much as possible in casuals(not sure if you are or not since those were tournament vids). Another thing about HOS, F.s rapes everything he has except sweep. Yes that includes super(the fire one, not the punch one, punch super probably wins), and forcebreak, and rocket. For faust the biggest thing I can say is learn the faust specific stuff. Everytime you sweep him jump dust(or possibly jump j.p->normal loop). After tatami mat j.p->j.KICK->j.d instead of jump slash. Everything else it looks like you learned as you were going(IE don't challenge fausts j.hs). Faust is one of my less known matchups, I fight it like twice a year if even. In general get your spacings down, there's a lot of times where you try and do combo's that don't work from the ranges you're hitting at, and a lot of times you could be getting combo's that you're not. This happened a lot vs venom. F.s also rapes venom almost as bad as it does HOS. kick countering through projectiles against people as fast and damaging as sol is REALLY dangerous. Even if he was farther away he coulda FRC'd it and chased you down. Also his command grab i spain in a can. also 5p is an unbelievably awesome meaty if you knock em down close enough to do it(it's a lot easier with tatami oki). Needs more TK yozansens!

[Hellmonkey]

A lot of times hos gunblazes you, he is right next to you on your wakeup and you can do 6PH which will either throw him or standing FD the gunblaze if he crosses you up in time, unless he reads it and does 6K which will CH you. It's still pretty useful.

[Nakkiel]

As tolore already pointed out, f.S and 2S are really strong normals to use against HOS. Sweeping under it is easy but the main problem is it's active frames, length and start up. I couldn't reliably get 2D to HIT tolore, HOS needs momentum or Baiken to be sliding towards him to connect 2D from f.S max range. It also connects with Tatami on CH. I only watched the first vid but you really need to be wary of when you tech in the corner. If you don't get out of there HOS has some pretty threatening things to keep you from attacking on the way down. Marlin really stuck those 5HSs to you and as you saw that nets great damage. Pay more attention to his meter. LVL2 Savage Fang is 0 frames after it's startup, so play it safe in those situations. Everything else I noticed has been covered.