[CP] Bullet Gameplay Discussion

[Dawn of Musou]

The thought of canceling D moves into Miquelet/Snaphance really broadens her combo potential. I'm actually looking forward to CP2 Bullet.

[Digital Masta]

I made a mistake earlier.5D doesn't floor bounce.

[Lunais]

I made a mistake earlier.5D doesn't floor bounce.

 

So you can just do your command grabs/D commands from hard knockdown 5D? Or you meant from the wall bounce from Wadcut Engage?

[Digital Masta]

Wait, my bad. By two times in a combo I meant doing both grabs once each.

EDIT: Now I am confusing myself. When I upload the video you will see what I mean.

I am running on like 3 hours sleep and it is a long day today. Orz

[Digital Masta]

I said fuck it to making it smaller and vimeo and I just uploaded it to google drive and made it so that anyone with the link can view it. I am assuming that this goes to youtube because it's google and is viewed within the YT player.

 

Also I apologize for extended periods where the video veers off, I had to do this in a way that wasn't noticable and there was a guy from Arksys walking around as well.

 

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B63typRM_B96LWc1OEhzVklSRkE&usp=sharing

[Lunais]

I said fuck it to making it smaller and vimeo and I just uploaded it to google drive and made it so that anyone with the link can view it. I am assuming that this goes to youtube because it's google and is viewed within the YT player.

 

Also I apologize for extended periods where the video veers off, I had to do this in a way that wasn't noticable and there was a guy from Arksys walking around as well.

 

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B63typRM_B96LWc1OEhzVklSRkE&usp=sharing

 

You are awesome. Will you be attending the next couple tests? What are your/others thoughts on these current changes? 

[SoWL]

The main loketest thread made it look like she got worse nerfs than 1.1 Makoto, but these changes do sound pretty cool, even though they might take time to adapt to. The hype is real.

[Mikros]

Those new routes should enable double heat combos w/o meter investment. I don't know how this is supposed to be bad,

[Sadeyo]

Well I admit her performance in combat has definitely changed quite a bit but it seems like every character is taking it pretty hard but command specials after drive alone is enough to get anyone rocking, that's a super buff all on it's on if I watched this video correctly and seen what happened.

 

I make the thread myself if I was permitted to juggle so many things at once but who here thinks a "Bullet BBCP 2.0 loketest" is necessay? We can keep all of her changes in one thread with any video content instead of navigating through this whole thread. It also gives us a better chance to speculate on combo options as more changes are revealed or what is lost. Probably just me but it seems like After Burner took on some more animation during the charge for lvl.2

[Sadeyo]

 

 This means what for Bullet?

 

Bullet:

- D Frame Advantage reduced. 

- If you hit D, the opponent floats and can Air Ukemi.

- Heat 1 Piercing Engage doesn't really wall bounce anymore.

- Bullet's Capture's Brake only registers in the last half. Looks like it has recovery. 

- Capture's changed so picking it up off a 5B is tough now.

 

change 1- Instead of getting proper frame advantage on charged 5D/jD for a red ring to appear on your opponent I guess they made it more unsafe so we have to be more selective instead of abusing it.

 

change 2- Basically giving your opponent the option to tech in the air at any given moment so jD or 5D possibly causes higher float making it difficult to combo off of.

 

change 3- well when you're in heat 1 (orange) after pressing 5D/jD to initiate the attack pressing 5D again removes wall bounce so they probably just slide or pushed against the wall to immediate tech. This removes the 5B jB jC 6B jC jD in the corner now.

 

change 4- Her new break after Miquelet doesn't enable instant cancellation until a few frames at the end. I knew it was too good to be true so you can still be punished or baited for just throwing it out there instead of mid-combo.

 

change 5- I don't know if they're speaking of her DP B or Miquelet because they can both be followed up with 5B with specific positioning. She screams capture in both of those moves so we need clarification between which of the two.

[SoWL]

Those new routes should enable double heat combos w/o meter investment. I don't know how this is supposed to be bad,

It's not bad, it's great. I was talking about this list from the general discussion thread:

- D Frame Advantage reduced.

- If you hit D, the opponent floats and can Air Ukemi.

- Heat 1 Piercing Engage doesn't really wall bounce anymore, it seems?

- Bullet's Capture's Brake only registers in the last half. Looks like it has recovery.

- Capture's changed so picking it up off a 5B is tough now.

- Bullet's Snap Hands Fist damage reduced

- D gets blocked and you bounce up and back.

- In addition to confirming You can't really combo off Piercing engage anymore and D being a small bound (so folks can Air Ukemi it) instead of a down

[Lunais]

Well I admit her performance in combat has definitely changed quite a bit but it seems like every character is taking it pretty hard but command specials after drive alone is enough to get anyone rocking, that's a super buff all on it's on if I watched this video correctly and seen what happened.

 

I make the thread myself if I was permitted to juggle so many things at once but who here thinks a "Bullet BBCP 2.0 loketest" is necessay? We can keep all of her changes in one thread with any video content instead of navigating through this whole thread. It also gives us a better chance to speculate on combo options as more changes are revealed or what is lost. Probably just me but it seems like After Burner took on some more animation during the charge for lvl.2

 

I think a Bullet 2.0 Thread would be good to have. Easy to find the changes and can even link https://drive.google...RkE&usp=sharing if its ok with him/everyone. Based on the footage you see there you can draw some conclusions on what new potential she might have/changed.

[natearistata]

The new combo paths look cool. Being able to roll straight from heat 0 to heat 2 with a proper combo is awesome. Kind of random that they swapped miquelette capture follow-up and regular D follow-up.

 

My issue, really, is that they're not doing anything so far to help out her neutral game, which is where she needed the most help to begin with.

[Shin Oni]

changes look great.Especially if we're able to get to heat 2 off a hit confirm.

 

the H2 swap between piercing engage and capture SHOULD mean you can do the main combo route from capture without having to combo off overhead or doing a risky 3C>41236C. Which i'm fine with because the way i've been ending it lately puts them back into the corner and sets up a reset. But it all depends on how the proration and all the other moves work now. So now when we get capture H2 wall splat we can should get the main combo instead of guessing our spacing is on/off from the wall for the 5B followup.

 

still pretty happy they allowed her to get her other D route moves off her drive. It's a start at least.

[Digital Masta]

You are awesome. Will you be attending the next couple tests? What are your/others thoughts on these current changes?

I like that the changes allow her to essentially keep on her opponent while having easier access to heat levels. Also exploding Flint can lead to confusing opponents who think it is a regular one.

I should going back for at last a little bit everyday. One day I definitely want to devote to Celica.

[SoWL]

My issue, really, is that they're not doing anything so far to help out her neutral game, which is where she needed the most help to begin with.

The question is, does she really need good neutral game that much when her offense and damage potential is so good? Sure, BB as a whole puts a lot of weight on neutral game, but she must have some kind of weakness to compensate for her strengths.

 

My only worry right now is that Drive is more difficult to use to approach people, but I'll just have to wait and see how it goes.

[natearistata]

I actually disagree that her offense/damage potential is good, lol, especially to justify a poor neutral game in general, which jumps down to abysmal with no heat up.

 

The issue is that she has high max damage potential when the stars align, but without heat level 2 her damage is sub-par at best, and terrible at worst. You're netting like, 1.5k - 2.5k without those level 2 follow-ups added into the mix, so you average it all out and she has average damage output despite a high damage ceiling. Add into this a weak mix-up game that's almost rendered entirely irrelevant by barrier blocking thanks to her poor reach, and I think having at least a decent neutral game is vital to her success as a character. I think her oki is also damaged by the D move changes. Now to get a knockdown, you probably want to be ending with 623B to put them on the ground, but I don't think you have time to safejump after that anymore like you could off of D knockdown. This means less time to set up your first couple moves on wake-up, which are vital for Bullet.

 

Obviously I'm just theorycrafting at this point, but I don't think better combo paths are going to suddenly take her into good character territory, let alone mid-tier territory when the tools required to even get a hit in the first place remain the same. Combine this with the potential loss of D moves to begin pressure and she could have even more problems than before.

[SoWL]

I believe Digital Masta has tweeted that the D moves still cause hard knockdown, it's just that you can also follow them up with command grabs.

 

The impression I get from 2.0 Bullet is that landing a hit with her leads to either Heat 2 (which fixes her neutral game right there) or tons of damage (which is even better than in 1.1). So, not only does she only need two combos to "break even", she goes even higher than that now - of course, as long as stars align. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to ponder here is, how much must her combos be buffed to make her good even with her current neutral game? Something tells me that you just can't compensate one with the other, but I'm just stuck in the mindset that winning in neutral game is more of a matter of personal skill than character's tools (probably because I've mostly been playing Tager, who just doesn't have any of those).

[natearistata]

I think the most ideal example of that question would be CT Hakumen. That character hit like a goddamn truck IF you got hit, but he was still considered bottom tier because his ability to actually land hits was so limited.

 

And you're certainly right that winning in neutral has a ton to do with player skill. Bullet's not a hopeless character by any means, it's just that her tools in comparison to the rest of the cast are less effective, and someone that isn't a reckless nutjob is very hard to crack open and get a hit on.

 

Edit: Actually, hm. The charged flint didn't really click with me the first time I read it, but now that I think about it, is it just Unlimited Bullet's version of it? Does it hit multiple times? Wonder if that'll affect combos.

[Lunais]

I think the most ideal example of that question would be CT Hakumen. That character hit like a goddamn truck IF you got hit, but he was still considered bottom tier because his ability to actually land hits was so limited.

 

And you're certainly right that winning in neutral has a ton to do with player skill. Bullet's not a hopeless character by any means, it's just that her tools in comparison to the rest of the cast are less effective, and someone that isn't a reckless nutjob is very hard to crack open and get a hit on.

 

Edit: Actually, hm. The charged flint didn't really click with me the first time I read it, but now that I think about it, is it just Unlimited Bullet's version of it? Does it hit multiple times? Wonder if that'll affect combos.

Yea I was wondering about the new charged Flint Shooter with the explosion and travel. I have not seen it in action yet. 

[Digital Masta]

I believe Digital Masta has tweeted that the D moves still cause hard knockdown, it's just that you can also follow them up with command grabs.

The impression I get from 2.0 Bullet is that landing a hit with her leads to either Heat 2 (which fixes her neutral game right there) or tons of damage (which is even better than in 1.1). So, not only does she only need two combos to "break even", she goes even higher than that now - of course, as long as stars align.

I guess what I'm trying to ponder here is, how much must her combos be buffed to make her good even with her current neutral game? Something tells me that you just can't compensate one with the other, but I'm just stuck in the mindset that winning in neutral game is more of a matter of personal skill than character's tools (probably because I've mostly been playing Tager, who just doesn't have any of those).

Last night I went back to Taito really late and got to fool around and can confirm that drive is NO LONGER a hard knockdown. During the day I thought it was still a hard knockdown then I thought it wasn't but playing against the computer I realized that they were teching instantly after.

[Lunais]

Last night I went back to Taito really late and got to fool around and can confirm that drive is NO LONGER a hard knockdown. During the day I thought it was still a hard knockdown then I thought it wasn't but playing against the computer I realized that they were teching instantly after.

 Alright, thanks for the confirmation. Are you seeing overall higher damage on average compared to 1.1 and lv.2 Heat mode being more frequent from your impressions? All we can do here is speculate here.

[BatousaiJ]

If most D moves allow for command grab, couldn't you 214D charge after the command grab safely regardless of spacing in basically every match up leading to minimum two heat gain for all combos unless you expand the heat for damage? 

 

That sounds pretty good to me. 

[WintySoSolo]

yes

 

actually tho if you can capture/snap after 5D and 5D gives heat you can just get 3.4k~ and get level 2 heat back off any confirm by doing like 5B 5C 2C 5D->snap->engage-> 5B jB jC jD capture 214D right?

[Assassinine]

Judging by that video you dont actually get the heat level until Bullet returns to a neutral stance, so H0 5D snap wont allow you to engage.

 

This seems to be the way Bullet's drive has always worked, as rapid cancelling a drive gives you the heat level immediately where otherwise you would have to wait until you fully recover.