Following N-O-sama's footsteps with Venom

[ky0n01]

Not too sure about that one. Most of his execution is based on anticipation and situations. He definitely utilizes ball formations more than any other Venom player though.

Ah I'll explain it later . My head still hurts right now

[Klaige]

Tiger has the right idea, what N-O has is over 5 years with the same character playing the best players in the world time and time again. He gets matchup knowledge with every character and he gets countless amounts of experience that an American player is pretty much completely unable to recieve given how the American GG scene works. I don't doubt N-O uses training mode, most good players do, but his strength is that he understands his human opponents better than 99.9% of the people who play the game, and that comes from matchup play and experience.

[Tigerofthewind]

It seems that most of N.O's victories are attributed to his experience rather than practiced execution. He just knows what to do.

[ky0n01]

It seems that most of N.O's victories are attributed to his experience rather than practiced execution. He just knows what to do.

Of course experience is the most important . But if you're saying that N-O just instantly thinks of the best formation on the spot you're wrong there. I saw a vid where N-O looks like he is unprepared for Gibsons invite hell and drunkard shade spamming (prolly he lacks info on player at that time) hahaha.. But after some few months N-O trashed Gibson in SBO 2007

@Klaige

Yeah it sux to play Venom if you don't have good players to fight with. Actually back then I always whine about having no good players to play with. Good thing I've got someone to practice at that time.. Anyways theyre retired already hahaha.. But you can still polish your pressure skills in training mode..

[ky0n01]

I noticed N-O seldom uses triple balls on okizeme after the throw combo. What do you guys think about this. I think summoning more balls is better particularly H>P>K, H>S>K.

[Klaige]

More than likely it's becase two ball formations are much harder to escape since it takes less time to have the formation prepared. 3 ball formations are nice, but you sacrifice a lot of time in prep for a setup that doesn't give you that much more of an advantage after a throw, 2 ball setups are more than ample to setup Venoms best oki games after that.

[Tigerofthewind]

2 is usually sufficient. The extra ball may deter time away from the oki and may not be the best use of the balls. When you have a 3 ball formation, most likely you're going to hit all the ball. If you're going to hit all the balls anyways, then you might as well get 2, have more time to summon or see what the opponent is going to do. The 3rd ball is good, but the options from it are, either you're going to hit all of them or only 2 with the last one, really not being that useful. You're going to most likely have to summon into another formation or either let it dissapear because most good venom players will know that it's not about trying to hit every ball you summon. Most formations that N.O have been using lately don't really require anymore than 2. HS>S is a decent midscreen. HS>K is good all around. K>S>2P split can get an instant 3rd ball with the help of Stinger. 1 ball is also sufficient for retreat teleport or to start off the ball Seisei pressure. An example P>S>K formation. useful but really just functions the same as S>K. It just provides a bit more blockstun during bridge between when the S ball and the K ball hits. Pretty much if you can have time to make a 3 ball formation, do it. If not, 2 is enough because from experience, trying to summon that particular formation, the opponent can just super jump and avoid all 3 balls altogether so you okizieme summon is a bit of a waste.

[ajinkris]

The most common tri-ball setup I see N-O use is usually: throw > 6P > 6HS > P ball > 6HS > S ball > short dash > HS ball > 5P It creates two balls that flow forward in a line and a K ball that you can use either for overhead mixup or in another formation.

[ky0n01]

If you're going to hit all the balls anyways, then you might as well get 2, have more time to summon or see what the opponent is going to do.

The 3 ball formation I mentioned up there can all be used by summoning S-ball [ho----os] using SA on the last ball. And if you hit your opponent you can also use the last ball for more DAMAGE.

If your curious about my setup here it is:

throw> 6P> 6HS> SUM H> 6HS> SUM P> SUM K> j.K> airdash> j.S> j.H> 2S> 5H>DC S> 2P> SA

-Tested it on anji. Fuujin can't pass through even if DC is IB. But jumping after IB is the best option if you want to escape..

I wish we had N-O's IM or something... Do you know where to get it?

More than likely it's becase two ball formations are much harder to escape since it takes less time to have the formation prepared. 3 ball formations are nice, but you sacrifice a lot of time in prep for a setup that doesn't give you that much more of an advantage after a throw, 2 ball setups are more than ample to setup Venoms best oki games after that.

I'll go give it a check in training mode. ^o^

Edit: I can't even make a jump after those 3-ball summon ^_^. The okizeme is still perfect like those 2-balls.

@Everyone

N-O just probably goes for more mixup and doesn't want to ruin the next formation ^_^.

ex. throw> 6P> 6H> SUM S> 6H> SUM K> j.K> airdash> 2K> 5S> 5H> DC> P> dash> 5P> Madstruugle> continue presure

[Tigerofthewind]

Like I said. It all depends whether you have time to set up the balls or not. With the setup you mentioned then yes, 3 balls works because it's really just a 2 ball summon. However doing something like P Dubious>S>K ball the opponent can escape(easier at miscreen).

[ky0n01]

Oic

[ky0n01]

I'm thinking if we should create a new thread about ball mixing combinations .. So that players won't get confused with ball formation..

[Tigerofthewind]

what do you mean ball mixing? EDIT: Do you mean shit like? HSb>Kb>hit the HS ball>summon S formation>2P?

[ky0n01]

what do you mean ball mixing?

EDIT: Do you mean shit like? HSb>Kb>hit the HS ball>summon S formation>2P?

Exactly~! But everybody should post their formation as well..

[Tigerofthewind]

Some of your combos are a bit off. 3. N-O™- 2K> 5S(2hits)> 5H> DC S> SUM S> 2S> SUM S> 2S> 6HS> TELEPORT> j.P> continue pressure Why, would you do S dubious>S ball summon? Also I dont' think it's possible to cancel 2S>6HS? Sweep to SA2- 2K> 5S(2hits)> SA [FRC]> 6P> 6HS> CR> 6H> SUM S> SUM K> j.K where's the sweep in this combo? Shouldn't it be something like 2D>Stinger>FRC>6P>6HS>whatever? Some other ones have inconsistancies as well.

[Boss]

how exactly r u suppose to do a carcass raid after a 1 hit 5S? please help?

[Tigerofthewind]

It has to do with some weird thing involving charge buffering and negative edging. It's like charge 2>5S[1 hit]>8S or just 8. the 5S is just at neutral so it's still a part of the charge motion I guess, so when you press 8 right away, you don't lose your charge. This is why you see how Venoms can do stuff like c.S>CR loops. They do 2>Carcass>2 immediately(you charge during the carcass animation)>5S(the stick is in neutral)>8S>repeat. It's a somewhat useful combo, but I don't do it because the timing is pretty hard and the opponent has to be crouching. But the trick itself is useful.

[Boss]

hmmm.....thanx. man, venom requires a lot of work:psyduck:

[ky0n01]

@Tigerofthewind OH thanks for noticing!! I'll fix the other typos later after I get back..

[ajinkris]

Hey, a few other things I noticed that need to be fixed: 1. FB DHM- throw> 6P> 6HS> CR> 6HS> SUM S> FB DHM>[Hard] There's usually a 5S after the SUM S. And also on the sweep to SA combos, you forgot the 2D after the 5S(2).

[ky0n01]

Okay, thanks for the help.. ^_^ I'll double check everything

[axel]

I wish we had N-O's IM or something... Do you know where to get it?

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nisikyougoku/

N-O's blog with a section dedicated to Venom's gameplay guide. His email is there as well but I don't think it's such a good idea to just blindly email him.

[ky0n01]

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nisikyougoku/

N-O's blog with a section dedicated to Venom's gameplay guide. His email is there as well but I don't think it's such a good idea to just blindly email him.

Then I'll send him pics of bishie guys.

[sangredeus]

http://blog.livedoor.jp/nisikyougoku/

N-O's blog with a section dedicated to Venom's gameplay guide. His email is there as well but I don't think it's such a good idea to just blindly email him.

Argh. It's in japanese! Can anyone translate the vital parts? I tried running it through a translator but I got junk.

[ajinkris]

This is a reminder to myself to transcribe this tri-ball crossup warp setup off a throw I saw N-O, Nanashi, and NNN use.