[P4U2] Labrys - Speculation and Discussion Thread

[Appledash-]

Better defensive options. Don't really care what they are. I just want something that I can use when I use Shadow Regular Labrys since I won't have a burst.

This, 100%. I'd like it so that you at least have a fighting change after Chie gets a knockdown on you. -_-

Also new moves sound cool.

[SteelCoil]

Labrys doesn't absolutely need a better reversal. She already has the mixup of charge or not charge to dissuade people from cancelling into their DP. And then she has usable reversal supers, especially in awakening. You don't immediately lose from getting knocked down into a mixup, if you use her reversals intelligently, you can get out fine enough. Or you could just, you know, block.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Current Labrys Info:

- Only has 3 persona cards

- New move: Persona shoots bubble. Traps opponent on hit

- New move: Similar to Testament's Gravedigger.

- Fully charged 2B is unblockable, Charge time too big for unblockable setups

- Fully charged DP is unblockable

- New gatlings:

5AA>2B

5AA>5B

5AA>2AB

- 5AA>5AA Loop doesn't work anymore

- 5AA has been changed. Doesn't knockdown though

- 5AAA has been changed. No info how this has changed.

- 2B has changed. Opponent floats higher? Not sure about this yet.

- 2B > jc > j.B > jc > j.B no longer works

- Original jBB is j2B now

- jBB input is still there. Doesn't rise Labrys in combos

- SB Beast does more damage. Burns Axe meter

- SB Tsurugi

- SB Brutal Impact

- Starts at blue axe instead of green 1st round

- D Beast/Mojuu still drains all axe meter

- Still carries over axe meter each round

- SB Gears cover the whole ground.

- 5A > 5B > 236A still works on yellow/red axe

- 236A>A> dash 5A works. Not sure about axe lvl yet

- jb hitbox weakened

- brutal now activates as soon as it takes an attack from an enemy (!?)

Info comes from Koma Labrys Twitter.

Also from here. http://pastebin.com/7nVu8TBk

[Surf]

Sigh thank you. Those are pretty much the exact gatlings i was asking for. The only problem i have is her Axe starting at Blue now. Youve got to be kidding me

SB gears sounds silly. Im hoping a new axe gaining combo path is found sincw 5AA loops are gone.

[SteelCoil]

I actually like blue axe start. Now, gray axe isn't some thing that you only see after burning the meter. It makes more sense for gray axe to exist from a design perspective.

The trick is to not see these changes in a vacuum. It's likely that Labrys has easier ways to level up the axe via better oki and better combos, which seems to be the case with the new moves.

Also, now that Labrys starts with blue axe, I'm wondering if there were any other changes to the axe mechanics. Like not losing axe meter as fast while being comboed, then it would make sense for Labrys to work harder for red axe because it's easier to maintain.

Or, since Labrys doesn't start with green axe anymore, what if green axe gives extra hitstn like current yellow axe? Then yellow axe becomes the new red axe, and red axe becomes....

We should hold our complaints until at least the Japanese can play the game full time. Remember Hakumen being crap tier in CP? If we lose something here, we'll get something else to beat people with. This is ArcSys we're talking about here....

[Surf]

Yea. Itd be crazy if green axe was the new yellow axe, and red axe being even better than the red axe we have now.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks for compiling a list of changes Tectal. It's looking quite good so far. The new gatlings from 5AA is pretty much what I've always wanted. j2B being Labrys jBB is pretty good. It has a nice horizontal hitbox so it'll be pretty good for air-to-air battles, even more so if we can combo off it on CH. 2B floating higher sounds a bit weird. I'll wait for clarification. Red Axe SB Beast could be really good so long as they don't just nerf regular D Beast and make SB Beast it's replacement damage wise. SB Gears sound pretty interesting. Hopefully, it leaves us at enough advantage to close the gap between us and our opponent to start pressure. Also, I'm very curious about SB Tsurugi. I hope more details on this trickle down the grapevine. I'm guessing it'll either improve it's use as oki or it's use in neutral by summoning multiple blades at once but going to have to wait and see.

[SteelCoil]

I'll just put the new info in the OP now.

I'm pretty sure D Beast still hurts, but I don't think there will be much of a reason to use it anymore? 25% isn't much to spend on a more damaging super, and it's a round ender anyway so in the cases where we would normally use D Beast, we wouldn't care about throwing away some more meter. Although, Shadow White Labrys (assuming she shares axe mechanics) has more incentive to use D Beast because of meter being carried over between rounds...which makes me even more interested in playing that character. I'm hoping Shadow White Labrys gets a better mixup game to compensate for lack of burst on top of not having a braindead reversal like most of the cast.

The simplest way to make an SB Tsurugi is to make it homing, imo. Otherwise, you'll have to do specific combinations of buttons to make it appear where you want, or it'll just appear in a fixed location.

Having 2 blades come out at once (one per button) does sound interesting, though. Either way, Labrys gets slightly more midscreen/fullscreen presence which is a definite buff.

Or I could just be wrong and we get an oki setup with a command akin to Taskmaster's arrow super.

Labrys seems really fun now.

[toanenadiz]

Labrys doesn't absolutely need a better reversal. She already has the mixup of charge or not charge to dissuade people from cancelling into their DP. And then she has usable reversal supers, especially in awakening. You don't immediately lose from getting knocked down into a mixup, if you use her reversals intelligently, you can get out fine enough. Or you could just, you know, block.

They can cancel into DP on reaction to Labby swinging her axe forward so there isn't really a mix-up of charge or no charge. Gear super is amazing though. If we could use that in non-awakening mode, I would be happy.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

I'll just put the new info in the OP now.

I'm pretty sure D Beast still hurts, but I don't think there will be much of a reason to use it anymore? 25% isn't much to spend on a more damaging super, and it's a round ender anyway so in the cases where we would normally use D Beast, we wouldn't care about throwing away some more meter. Although, Shadow White Labrys (assuming she shares axe mechanics) has more incentive to use D Beast because of meter being carried over between rounds...which makes me even more interested in playing that character. I'm hoping Shadow White Labrys gets a better mixup game to compensate for lack of burst on top of not having a braindead reversal like most of the cast.

D Beast super will probably still have it's uses. Green to Red Axe combos into D Beast ender come to mind. Spend 25-50 meter to get to Red Axe and then another 50 meter on the D Beast. But I think overall, D Beast will remain the most used version of the super simply because we might not always have 75 meter to spend. The new gatlings might lead to not having to spend meter on OMC mixups but our defensive options haven't really improved much. We're probably still going to have to spend meter for defense. But I guess we'll see how things play out with D Beast vs. SB Beast.

The simplest way to make an SB Tsurugi is to make it homing, imo. Otherwise, you'll have to do specific combinations of buttons to make it appear where you want, or it'll just appear in a fixed location.

Having 2 blades come out at once (one per button) does sound interesting, though. Either way, Labrys gets slightly more midscreen/fullscreen presence which is a definite buff.

Or I could just be wrong and we get an oki setup with a command akin to Taskmaster's arrow super.

.

SB Tsurugi have a homing property would be pretty good, so long as the homing can't be beaten by just continuously moving.

[Omex]

sorry, can't check if everything's been posted already, but i translated changes from ho-chan's evernote.

http://pastebin.com/7nVu8TBk

i think tectal covered most of it but hey, safety post!

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks Omex.

eh, I'm going to wait and see how bad it is before I start crying about jB Hitbox being weakened but Brutal Impact activating as soon as you are hit sounds like a massive improvement to this super.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Thanks omex.

I'll update my post with this info.

Edit:

changes are on the front page now.

Thanks

[Tari]

Not really that excited for the new P4A, unfortunately, but I'll keep my eye on it and I'll still probably play/lab it if it gets released on consoles. I like Labrys as a character, so that'll probably still carry on for a while.

That aside, the new Labrys changes sound interesting. If they don't actually adjust her normals and startups, there still won't be much going for her as a character (and the persona card nerf + axe level nerf are pretty hilarious, even if they don't really affect Labrys much), so I'm hoping to see some more concrete information on how she's changed.

Random comments on the changes:

- Unblockable 2B sounds literally just as useless as unblockable 5B, unless they remove the unblockable-flash effect before the move goes off.

- BI activating as soon as an opponent hits it sounds interesting. Does it work like Yukikaze, does it have invuln super armor (like her DP), or is it just a move that happens if the opponent tries mashing a button (ie: it activates on the opponent's attack whiffing)? All three are quite different, so it's somewhat important to know.

- People did tell me yesterday about the 5AAA auto-combos all being changed, and I was laughing about whether Labrys still had any of her decent combos anymore (DP loops, etc.). Would like to see the new 5AAA in action. I like the new gatlings, though I don't see them being useful at all in mixup or pressure unless 5AAA is now an overhead.

- j.BB not lifting Labrys is a nice change, quite useful, may be more practical as a falling air-to-ground thing after j.B, now, though it'll probably still be gimmicky.

- j.2B sounds very nice. Curious about its startup, as it sounds like it may function as a replacement to her current j.B in terms of air-to-air spacing. If it's too slow, it'll still be useless against rising mash against certain characters (though some of the faster characters are slower, I believe).

- SB Tsurugi and SB supers are pretty good sounding. I wonder if the SB Beast super startup will be equivalent to the C version, D version, or have its own startup value. Same curiosity applies to the new SB versions of the other moves. Would like more info on SB Tsurugi.

- Unblockable DP sounds pretty much useless, though somewhat funny. I imagine it'll mess with people who aren't used to playing against Labrys in the future, but not much else.

- j.B weakened hitbox, 3 persona cards, and starting at blue axe are all pretty much negligible changes as far as I'm concerned. The most concerning one is the j.B change, of course, but it sounds like the j.2B is probably going to replace its utility in some ways.

- The new bubble move is funny sounding. I imagined Platinum's bubble. Can't comment on it without more info, though.

Blue/gray is fine. Axe gauge is manageable and honestly Labrys spends a lot of the time going 100 meter/OMB green to red super anyways. I'd like to see more offensive presence in red/yellow. (PLUS?!) Possibly a command grab. But most importantly, system changes so Labrys doesn't instadie from a vortex autopilot.

Honestly, if P4A had a barrier or faultless system in place, the game would be pretty okay. It's the lack of a defensive option that moves the opponent away from you that makes the game so terrible in certain ways (like the theoretically 10-0 Chie-Labrys matchup). When your only defensive options are "block" or "block and make the opponent come closer", it's pretty unfortunate.

[argorok]

JB more easily to counter and start with the blue axe no like me,but for the else changes look good if you win with the red axe continues in the next round?

[Tecta1Eastside]

Axe gauge still carries over into the next round like the current version.

[WintySoSolo]

she can 5aa5b

holy shit I am so fucking happy right now i can't even begin to explain it

it's like robot axe girl finally has equal rights with the rest of the cast

[TransientFaith]

The real question is, what does this mean?

*Air moves can now be used after backdash.

Can I j.D after baiting something with backdash or will I still eat a poke like (chie 5a > lab backdash > 5a whiffs, chie 5c eats my backdash recovery)?

Or maybe even something dumb like air gravedigger (if it's not ground only) after backdash

[Tari]

she can 5aa5b

holy shit I am so fucking happy right now i can't even begin to explain it

it's like robot axe girl finally has equal rights with the rest of the cast

Yeah, now 5AA doesn't have to cancel into 214A in order to be safe. Whoo! :|

Mind you, it's a nice change, but there isn't a large gain gotten from the gatling into 5B on block in the current game, so hopefully something else will surface for her... like 5B > 2B. (I wish)

Curious if 5AA still launches the opponent, because I can't see 5AA > 5B being useful on hit at the moment, either. There needs to be more information in general.

The real question is, what does this mean?

*Air moves can now be used after backdash.

Can I j.D after baiting something with backdash or will I still eat a poke like (chie 5a > lab backdash > 5a whiffs, chie 5c eats my backdash recovery)?

Or maybe even something dumb like air gravedigger (if it's not ground only) after backdash

Perhaps another interesting question is whether you can double-jump out of your backdash.

That line needs clarification, because it's pretty ambiguous as is.

[argorok]

"SB tsurugi" is a new special?

[Appledash-]

"SB tsurugi" is a new special?

It's a meter-burn version of her existing 'tsurugi' special. It generates two swords instead of one, I think.

[WintySoSolo]

Yeah, now 5AA doesn't have to cancel into 214A in order to be safe. Whoo! :|

Mind you, it's a nice change, but there isn't a large gain gotten from the gatling into 5B on block in the current game, so hopefully something else will surface for her... like 5B > 2B. (I wish)

it really depends on the frame data of the new autocombo. 5AA pause 5A was DECENT but the ability to catch stuff by canceling straight to 5B/2B would be nice.

I'm also interested in what SB tsurugi actually does.

[Tecta1Eastside]

Here's all the notes from the loketest.

Thanks Omex for the translations.

http://pastebin.com/hySvs98W

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Thanks for posting the up-to-date changes again Tectal and Thanks Omex for translating wherever you are!

So, they changed jB's hitbox so that the top is similar to 5B? Hmmmm, yeah, I think I can live with that. So long as the middle and bottom are still roughly the same. SB Tsurugi summoning the B and D swords sounds just about how I imagined it. With both the B and D Tsurugi out, it'll pretty much shut down all ground movement for anyone not at close range for a short period of time. That's going to be pretty useful for me. I'm not 100% sure what "Mojuu (seems) to combo no matter the proration" means but I hope it means that the timing for comboing into Beast from Air Guillotine isn't as specific as it is now. It's not a big deal if this hasn't changed though since I'm sort of used to it now.

Woah, woah, woah. Time out. There's an SB Brutal Impact? Trying to imagine what it could do. Faster startup? More damage? Comboable? Interested in seeing how that turns out. SB Beast getting good damage even at blue axe is delightful to hear. 5C's hitbox getting more vertical reach is always nice since I like 5C. 5B now having a dash cancel and 5D having a faster start up peak my interest. I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of things this will allow us to do.

Overall, this was a pretty good loc test. Our robo-girl with a giant axe has so many new toys to play with that the wait for this to reach consoles is going to feel like a lifetime. It is a bit strange though that we didn't hear anything about what sort of things she can do with the new S-Hold system but I guess people may not know which specials work with it or it can be hard to tell what the effects are. Oh well.

[Omex]

Thanks for posting the up-to-date changes again Tectal and Thanks Omex for translating wherever you are!

hi.

afaik if you have a really high end, long combo with labrys when you combo into D axe super you can actually end up having the opponent tech in the middle of the hits, leaving you wide open for punishment. I'm assuming they mean that that can't happen anymore with the D mojuu issue.

as for brutal impact yeah. it's likely the move is getting a rebalance since it can be triggered earlier than usual now, so maybe SB deals nearly as much damage as the current C version lol.