[P4AU] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "TIME TO MOVE"

[RWA Announcer]

Interesting observations guys.  I'm looking forward to the regular buffs FOR SURE, but I hope S. Naoto can still find a niche in the metagame in the wake of all of the Shadow changes.  I just want to use BOTH, without one being outright superior to the other in the majority of situations.  That's not too much to ask for, is it ASW?  I'm pretty optimistic though.

[Kikirin]

Asking a Japanese player on Twitter, the general change for traps is more likely to be a bug fix for scenarios where fate isn't reduced when it should. The TL has been adjusted accordingly. Sorry to get hopes up. 

[Doonpa]

Asking a Japanese player on Twitter, the general change for traps is more likely to be a bug fix for scenarios where fate isn't reduced when it should. The TL has been adjusted accordingly. Sorry to get hopes up. 

 

Ahhh thats unfortunate but understandable. I had no idea that traps were bugged in such a way last game lol. Oh well. Is there any word about what they mean about shortened poison duration? I was talking to other players and everyone seems to agree that what it means is that poison does its damage more quickly but still does the same amount, which is definitely a nice little buff so far. 

[Kikirin]

Ahhh thats unfortunate but understandable. I had no idea that traps were bugged in such a way last game lol. Oh well. Is there any word about what they mean about shortened poison duration? I was talking to other players and everyone seems to agree that what it means is that poison does its damage more quickly but still does the same amount, which is definitely a nice little buff so far. 

I don't think I've seen anything in the notes to confirm that the same total damage is done over a shorter duration, but I can ask to get that confirmed.

[Kikirin]

Some twitter stuff for Shadow-type:

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555579493671112707

D Zapper is super fast. Sweep > D Zapper connects even from max range.

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555579600961404929

When at 0 bullets, Naoto can act immediately after B and SB Aim since it doesn't go into the shooting stance.

(Back to corner) Stuff > A Fang > B Shots > SB Aim > 5A didn't pick up. Might've connect if a bit higher.

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555579649359495169

6D shot's untechable time was lengthened but couldn't pick up from it in the corner. SB has a rather high float.

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555579827135078400

In the corner: ~2C > SB Trap > 5A connects. C Trap, D Trap doesn't. C Trap hitting directly might be character-specific.

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555580134497849344

Shadow Berserk midscreen combo

Stuff > Sweep > C or D Zapper > SB C Shot (ricochet) > Sweep > D Zapper > A Fangs (whiff) > SB B Shot > B Fangs > ender is possible.

Not sure how necessary it is, but it's cool.

 

https://twitter.com/kou30c/status/555580248926871554

(Back to corner) Stuff > Sweep > C or D Zapper > SB C Shot (ricochet) > Sweep > D Zapper > B Aim > SB B Shot > B Fangs > air D Trap > A Fangs > ender.

Can combo up to the A Fangs off a 5B or better starter. 

Might also be able to sideswap from Sweep > SB Zapper > A Shots x 4 > C Shot and such. Not sure though.

 

 

Someone earlier was curious about whether Raid B Shots took 2 fate per shot, and it is confirmed.

 

https://twitter.com/green_cocoa_/status/555729057862914048

2C > A Shots > Raid B x 3 = 8 fate.

12 fate with SB Raid B x 5.

Combos even off a 5A starter.

[Ichipoo]

I would really love to see something like this being used/set up more. The idea of Naoto having okizeme is delicious. 

http://youtu.be/XB_U12NggFA?t=10m7s

[Syklone]

Naoto is looking really good this time assertions around. Hi midscreen damage. Welcome back

[Bossadai]

Hey guys,

 

I currently live in Japan right now (gonna be here for like 2 years lol), so if you want me to try anything out with Naoto, I can definitely do it. The only problem is that I've been playing on a controller since P4:A Day 1, so arcades here are my first exposure to fighting with stick...also, I'm not 100% familiar with upper-level lexicon ( e.g. I know what DP is but not "fuzzy", sorry), so you'll have to bear with me and explain things to me...I'm totally willing to learn!

 

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the notes is that Naoto can't "double death" people anymore, i.e. use Hamaon/Mudoon and in-between the animation and KO sign, do Hamaon/Mudoon and kill the opponent...again lol. This version it just hits them and nothing happens. D:

 

Also I tried Shadow Bursting with 100 meter, I was only able to get 2 SB Gun moves in.

[Ichipoo]

Hamaon and SB Aim being used as combo extenders

 

http://youtu.be/UvSpexBpZtk?t=6m44s

 

http://youtu.be/UvSpexBpZtk?t=11m33s

 

Giving SB Aim more utility other than a ghetto reversal to get our of the corner is probably my most favorite Naoto change so far.

[Syklone]

So glad to see Waka back with Naoto. Any word on Denpa? I need him back on Naoto as well, S.Naoto the cheapest.

[Syklone]

Oops double post. Sorry!!!

[RoanYagyu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglzkA51p4g#t=95   Safe jump off A fang ender midscreen now wooooooo tho looked too far for fshiki stuff tho if you can then thats really helpful for normal naoto vs yu and marg because grime. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglzkA51p4g#t=371 C shots safe jump auto timing setup now? Pretty nice i guess tho i think its mostly for show.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mglzkA51p4g#t=486 2C>hc jC>j236B into stuff works so maybe using 2C to poke at people in the corner with hc jC as a way to confirm the situation might be a thing?

 

new stuff all looks so silly lol 

 

 

Hey guys,

 

I currently live in Japan right now (gonna be here for like 2 years lol), so if you want me to try anything out with Naoto, I can definitely do it. The only problem is that I've been playing on a controller since P4:A Day 1, so arcades here are my first exposure to fighting with stick...also, I'm not 100% familiar with upper-level lexicon ( e.g. I know what DP is but not "fuzzy", sorry), so you'll have to bear with me and explain things to me...I'm totally willing to learn!

 

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the notes is that Naoto can't "double death" people anymore, i.e. use Hamaon/Mudoon and in-between the animation and KO sign, do Hamaon/Mudoon and kill the opponent...again lol. This version it just hits them and nothing happens. D:

 

Also I tried Shadow Bursting with 100 meter, I was only able to get 2 SB Gun moves in.

 

 

Is trap canceling out? I remember there being some change to SB moves taking meter out sooner so i wonder if thats out. Uhhh do 236A>214CD in shadow frenzy and see if you can get A fang to land without aimstance but without the meter being used up from SB trap

[Ichipoo]

Her new corner safejump is pretty silly haha.

 

Also, it seems like stuff > IAD > j.A/j.B > j.C > air fangs > new stuff is the new sex? I still like my old school double IAD combo route though.

[_mk40_]

I will forever love this character

[Syklone]

They will never nerf the cuteness

[wnee]

im sad, i really wanted to play snaoto in the next version but normal naoto is looking so much better right now

[RoanYagyu]

S naoto still got some stuff.

Shadow frenzy being tied to a burst instead of needing 100 meter could let you start a round with whatever into shadow burst SB raid to remove all/most fate

A lot of new naoto stuff should work with her and again because of Frenzy being tied to burst you can use meter if you so wish

5AAA can be special canceled a lot sooner so she got new routes that reduce a lot of fate without the need for meter (believe one corner route builds 50 and uses it to remove all 13?)
Shadow Frenzy combos are now burst safe so that may lead to newer routes  (on top of other stuff like air fangs having more untech) 

Having access to raid whenever can be helpful either as a reversal , or fate removal (easier to combo into it than shotgun and both remove 6) and raid can help make her dmg more on par with regular naoto 

This one still needs more time to develop i feel 

[Ichipoo]

http://youtu.be/j9v7p4Wljjk?t=5m54s

 

Inconveniently placed C traps still costing us games I see.

[Bossadai]

Is trap canceling out? I remember there being some change to SB moves taking meter out sooner so i wonder if thats out. Uhhh do 236A>214CD in shadow frenzy and see if you can get A fang to land without aimstance but without the meter being used up from SB trap

Just tried it. Still uses meter!

[RoanYagyu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPrizB9gE_w incase someone hasnt seen this yet. Seems shotgun change...didnt go through? Double shotgun still worked to reduce 12. Tho im really curious as to how S naoto will turn out. Regular naotos reward off basically everything went up and with the change to shadow burst i wonder if there will be a more distinct  choice between the two, not in terms of which is better but more of a goal choice i guess? Regular being the general meter use and dmging one while shadow spends resources in bursts to remove fate and kill that way tho i havent seen any dmg focused routes for s naoto just yet so who knows. Plus theres still the meter gain increase that shadows have that might be useful on non fate related stuff (hamaon mixups, SB fang/Aim routes, maybe some nifty sb trap stuff) 

[Doonpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPrizB9gE_w incase someone hasnt seen this yet. Seems shotgun change...didnt go through? Double shotgun still worked to reduce 12. Tho im really curious as to how S naoto will turn out. Regular naotos reward off basically everything went up and with the change to shadow burst i wonder if there will be a more distinct  choice between the two, not in terms of which is better but more of a goal choice i guess? Regular being the general meter use and dmging one while shadow spends resources in bursts to remove fate and kill that way tho i havent seen any dmg focused routes for s naoto just yet so who knows. Plus theres still the meter gain increase that shadows have that might be useful on non fate related stuff (hamaon mixups, SB fang/Aim routes, maybe some nifty sb trap stuff) 

 

Shadow might still be the way to go simply because of unburstable shadow combos and having access to Raid > B shots for fate as well as shotgun stuff at any time for 50%. It would be cool if regular turned out to be better, but Shadow mode as a whole is a pretty kuso mechanic that might make her better overall. Probably will have to wait for console 2.0 to drop to see S.Naoto develop again because I can't imagine an arcade being a good environment to sit for hours on end testing routes with her. 

[Ichipoo]

In some of the LINE groups that I'm in, we actually discussed how Shadow Naoto seems to be more focused on removing Fate all on one go like RoanYagyu said previously. Interestingly enough, one of the people in those chats, (I think it was TheBiter, a pretty prominent player in SoCal) suggested that Shadow Naoto can simply save up 100 SP, (since Shadows still gain more meter than their normal counterparts) burn it all in a double shotgun combo that takes away 12 Fate, then on the next combo, Shadow Frenzy into Hamaon or Mudoon (ie: Grab > Shadow Frenzy > Hamaon/Mudoon).

 

Yup, Shadow Frenzy combos not being Burstable is a big thing.

[RoanYagyu]

Alternatively you could spend 75 or just burst early to go with an sb raid ender for a minimum of 10 (more likely 12 since almost anything can go into 2c shots ) which probably will be more common. Tho the versatility of using shadow frenzy to replace meter requirement for supers outside of the fact we get more combo routes with it is really really nice. Early shadow frenzy might be a common thing for her depending on how fast we can get burst back and just take the fate we can off of the first touch. Though then that makes getting hit after scarier

[Ichipoo]

Alternatively you could spend 75 or just burst early to go with an sb raid ender for a minimum of 10 (more likely 12 since almost anything can go into 2c shots ) which probably will be more common. Tho the versatility of using shadow frenzy to replace meter requirement for supers outside of the fact we get more combo routes with it is really really nice. Early shadow frenzy might be a common thing for her depending on how fast we can get burst back and just take the fate we can off of the first touch. Though then that makes getting hit after scarier

That you could also do. At this point, I guess it just depends on the player on what 'route' they want to take. Personally, I like saving Shadow Frenzy for an unburstable Hamaon/Mudoon combo so far, but since Auto Combo in general also increase the Burst meter faster than normal, you could get "greedy" and remove all your opponents Fate in one go with a Shadow Frenzy combo off the first hit and proceed from there. 

 

Either way, with both "routes," assuming your opponent was smart enough to hang on to it, you still have to deal with your opponent Bursting at some point. At least that's how I see it.

[ludwig van]

Hi! I'm come to announce that Doonpa is now Naoto co-mod, he'll post info, I'll make it look pretty~!