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TITANIUM BEAST!!!

[+R] Order-Sol Critique Thread

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The Brandinolian good points:

Great sense of awareness. You generally have good positioning, momentum, and are able to read the moves.

Good pressure, even though it doesn't really work on ABA due to the bullshit of her DP and that command grab.

Those grabs / air grabs were on point. Don't lose that.

Good damage conversion off of pokes.

The Brandinolian points to work on:

That level 3 BRP combo you did was whack. Were you burst bating? I say go for maximum carnage all the time.

I strongly suggest run up -> FD -> block first hit of Danzie -> DP the second hit and get a KD vs ABA.

Those were some pretty horrible bursts. I say hold your burst until you can get something nice out of it, such as if she tries to keygrab you and you burst it, she is now stuck in normal mode. Or burst when they use some meter. Try to not do an "Oh snap I got hit!" burst.

The Brandinolian differences:

You do a lot of HJI combos. I don't really do HJI unless I want to turn them around to the corner. I like the lower ones because you can get 2 reps, lots of meter, and a knock down. Remember what TB said: "Don't end your combos in level 1 BRP". Stuffs dangerous. I have been weeding it out too.

I'm not a fan of c.s -> f.s -> lv2 BHB -> lv2 BHB -> air combo. Can't you get a level 2 BRP + knock down if you only do 1 lv2 BHB?

-----

Stay fast, stay furious; stay Bronoli.

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The Brandinolian good points:

The Brandinolian points to work on:

That level 3 BRP combo you did was whack. Were you burst bating? I say go for maximum carnage all the time.

The Brandinolian differences:

I'm not a fan of c.s -> f.s -> lv2 BHB -> lv2 BHB -> air combo. Can't you get a level 2 BRP + knock down if you only do 1 lv2 BHB?

- That was me going for draining her Moroha Meter than max damage. I wasn't confident in doing HJC J.S > J.HS > J.D > Lvl.2 BRP since I wasn't sure if I had the meter and I know that combo is a bit wonky on her.

- I knew that combo was gonna kill. I did it for shits lol

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- I knew that combo was gonna kill. I did it for shits lol

Talkin' bout the one you did before that at 42:30. Didn't kill her; so OoooOOooOOoouu.

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Oh the double lvl.2 BHB combo? I was hoping he'd burst between the 1st and 2nd lvl.2 BHB. It's pretty burst safe at the range I did it.

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Mitsu: while it is good theory, none of it really applies here. The thing that went wrong was that 4r5 was guarding air and Sesshryu tried to occupy air. Sesshryu: just take a look for yourself, when you are in the corner, you decide you have to jump out. So forcibly even that it cost you a round as 4r5 just kept attacking you in the air. Next time, just try running out or using GB.

Secondly, a bit more minor but still important: when waking up, running at your opponent to attack him isn't really going to work. 4r5 has been baiting you like this and you fell for it quite badly.

Well, you may have a point reaVer, highlighting that playing it all airborne was the biggest point in Sesshyru's matches.

Nonetheless, I can assure you with OS that dash FD, dash 2D and throws are staple and not theory. At the very least for this specific OS-JO matchup. Maybe it was not the most blatant points in the aforementioned matches, yet having not seen them, I thought it would be good to mention it. I can't watch it again right now but IIRC I saw him run and got hit several times.

For what is is worth, I have seen other OS players doing it against JO (Japanese and Western players). Even a guy playing both JO and OS does.

Besides, as another Johnny player getting annoyed/blocked/counterhit by such, I dare say it works and helps OS getting respect from JO. Though as many tools, your opponent have ways around it too. IMO both our points are valid.

Note that jumping is not necessarily bad when JO is pressuring you in ther corner but if you are baited, it is.

Sesshyru, have we hurt your feelings or something by pointing these flaws? I find it strange you don't bother to reply and prolong the discussion yet commented on other matches.

Therefore I hope that is not the case. If it is, I apologize in advance, meaning no harm and wanting everybody to discuss nicely and improve, to get more insight. If I did not point your strong points, it is not because there aren't but because other OS/knowledgeable players are more likely and more suitable to do so.

Sorry Brandinoli, I can't comment that much since I couldn't watch your matches, Twitch makes my comp lag. Except for the beginning of your OS-SO match I saw by randomly clicking the time bar, where you did a good job at baiting VV (too bad you depleted your Tension thus got hit by the VV you saw coming!) and so many manly Respects haha!

Edited by Mitsurugi

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Note I specifically said 'good theory' and not 'good in theory'. Yes, the tools you listed can work for you, as can a lot of other things if they are used well, but he cannot use them if he's jumping around like commander Keen on a pogo stick.

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Less getting hit by 6p.
More grabs.
Better block strings... Workin on it.
There is more footage but.. lol..

I tried to make that bronoli air-dash after teh HJ combo work; never worked for me. lol

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I keep forgetting you can combo after air-grab now...

Other thoughts:

Slayer has a ton of invincibility, seems like more than AC.
Trying to cut down on unnecessary blocking. Blocking Slayer just doesn't seem worth it.

There are a ton more videos on 4r5's channel if anybody is interested, I assume not. No action in this place. :blue:

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I keep forgetting you can combo after air-grab now...

Other thoughts:

Slayer has a ton of invincibility, seems like more than AC.

Trying to cut down on unnecessary blocking. Blocking Slayer just doesn't seem worth it.

There are a ton more videos on 4r5's channel if anybody is interested, I assume not. No action in this place. :blue:

Only thing I really have to say is that you seem really passive for a character that thrives and shine on offensive momentum. Also I personally just find your offense to be underwhelming, but then again I think this about just about every other HOS except for like Inoue and Sanma.

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Only thing I really have to say is that you seem really passive for a character that thrives and shine on offensive momentum.

Hum, I might be a product of my environment. Many players around here advocate safety, punishes, and blocking above all else.

but then again I think this about just about every other HOS except for like Inoue and Sanma

Interesting statement. How would you define/describe a(n) whelming / overwhelming offense?

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Interesting statement. How would you define/describe a(n) whelming / overwhelming offense?

IMO it should pretty self-explanatory or it seems like that to me since before GG I was a MB player and having a overwhelming defense was more or less the name of the game for a lot of characters.

To answer your question though I think having an overwhelming offense pretty much just means pushing for the advantage whenever you see an opportunity or force your way into a advantageous situation and stay in that situation for an extended period of time and I've always felt that HOS in +R had a much easier time doing this as opposed to his past iterations. When I watch other HOS players (US or JP) I just don't see them trying to take advantage whenever there's a clear opportunity to take it (I'm guilty of this too) and I've always see them being overly passive at times giving up ground. It's really funny how I see this about /every/ other F-Ciel player aside from myself, but that's for another time.

Also, I see HOS players NEVER making use of tension + charge meter in a way that allows HOS to have good amount of charge and positioning. It's so much easier to gain a level.3 with his changes it's almost a joke. Again...this is something I always found to be much easier in +R as opposed to AC or Slash, but again this is just my personal opinion about what I see.

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Personal opi is cool.

The reason why I asked is because the way I see it is there are 3 phases of the game at any given time: Advantage, neutral, disadvantage. These 3 situations are unique to each character, therefor unique to each match-up. The 3 situations come with options (buttons). These 3 situations also come with risks and rewards to further complicate the tree. In my head, there is a huge amount of information to take in very quickly at any given frame of the game to make a 'winning' move / decision.

My point:

The way I see it is neutral and disadvantage states vs Johnny and Slayer are far too risky given the buttons that HOS has at level 1 which is most of our play; however, the advantage state is very beneficial at level 1. I call it 'respecting the character' when you sit there and defense properly until an opening presents it's self (neutral state) and you can go from there to an advantage state by using advantage moves like 5p and lv2 stuff.

Support:

I went back and watched a Sanma vid and I saw some similar logic. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20667049) He back dashes a lot. He keeps his distance, which is about 3/4th screen. This to me means he respects Johnny's neutral / advantage state. Lot's of blocking and defense. He isn't really putting a lot of pressure on Johnny and he is trying to charge up as much as possible with out putting himself in the disadvantage state.

Conclusion:

I would change 'underwhelming' to wise / cautious. I am ok with being underwhelming while playing Slayer and Johnny because I respect them a lot. Fk both of their 6p's and Fk Johnny's 2S and fk Slayers 2D / Stomp / 5p / invinc dandy / cross-wise. I feel much more comfortable going all out vs Pot or Anji etc. etc... We have an Axle player over here as well. The beginning... 20 seconds of every match I am full defense, but when I find that opening, I don't let up. Gotta go in, block burst, and no gunblazing away because you need to stay in.

If my logic is different from yours, by all means, explain.

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Re: overwhelming offense, how do you really define it? IMO HOS doesn't have it, even with his buffs. You still have to read people. As far as always pressing for the advantage, GG is a game where one guess can turn whole matches around. You have to have good defense and a sense of when to back off or you will get hammered repeatedly by these characters who can generate massive damage off of just random stuff. Having this sense also works to your advantage in that you will be able to punish people who just swing for the fences; it's another form of offense and is also known as giving someone just enough rope to hang themselves. When you play a character like HOS, who thrives on making smart reads, you need to just take a step back occasionally and let the other guy kill himself for you.

That being said, I kind of agree that Sesshyru is too passive. Especially in oki, I think I mentioned this before but you NEED to be decisive. There is a difference between being cautious and being too hesistant. Also, charge more plzkthx.

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You about to go to a tourni right bronoli? Record it -.-

I'm going to Frosty Faustings so I'm sure whatever matches I play on stream will be recorded

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I'm going to Frosty Faustings so I'm sure whatever matches I play on stream will be recorded

GL.

Don't run into a 10 year GG vet who play Venom like I did. :v:

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GL.

Don't run into a 10 year GG vet who play Venom like I did. :v:

You referring to Blacksnake? I played him a bit in AC+ and in ACR so I don't feel too worried about him

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Hah! Confidence.

I couldn't move. Locked down in the corner. Not like Johnny where I can sweep my way out.

There's a set between us. It's a bit older, but you should still be able to get a better idea on what how to play the neutral game still. IMO it's the same like how it was in AC+ but it's a lot easier for HOS to deal with it. Venom's 6P got nerfed pretty hard to the point where it's completely plausible to jump in on him and with lvl.2 RI causing a hard KD on hit it makes it more practical to toss that move out as a surprisingly fast neutral poke. When Venom has you blocking his pressure is still the same, but the key difference is that Dubious Curve is not a lvl.5 (or 6 I can't remember atm) move anymore so once he commits to it he's more or less ending his pressure unless he FRCs it.

I can understand if you had a hard time fighting him if you had little to no Venom EXP in AC+, but between playing against him in AC where I had the same problem you're having now and AC+R...on top of fighting other Venom's since then...I feel like the MU is a lot easier for HOS to deal with. Mostly in neutral...where Venom killed him in AC.

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