[+R] Sol Badguy Critique Thread

[VR-Raiden]

Been a while, but posting my most recent tourney matches.

Got at least 2 more +R tournies this year, one being this weekend. If anyone (like Orrax ) has any advice on matchups or Sol in general and can find the time, please share.

 

I'm mainly concerned with my performance vs Axl, Millia, and Eddie (this matchup forever torments me). But advice on any is welcome.

 

UFGTX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n8m-hULXuU&t=1m20s vs Justice (win, win)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJZPnIhCrM&t=1m19s vs Baiken, Anji (win, lose, win)

- Don't know what to say about the first Anji match, I got kinda overwhelmed and forgot what Anji was? dunno

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzuJ9laW7kk&t=8m33s vs Axl (lose, win, win)

- I feel like I make a ton of risky choices in general in this matchup. I hate his 623S, I always mistime safejump j.S, so I will probably just use j.P on him from now on unless I can really get the timing. It sucks when it trades.

Oh yeah this one cuts off but it ends in 5 seconds after that, I run up WT to kill.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB6VY8XCvbo&t=7m44s vs Millia (lose, lose)

- Can't say much here I made really stupid choices and got mixed up to death. I feel like I usually play this matchup better but alas.

 

 

SJ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knRyx6MWiQQ&t=0m10s vs Johnny, Sol (win, win)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoO-gXtKE1c&t=0m10s vs Ky (win, win)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exVxyAzhZhg&t=10m02s vs Potemkin (win, win)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5DUE7UQXHE&t=1m00s vs Slayer, Eddie (back and forth, I win in the end)

- I drop a horrendous amount of dustloops. At some point I should've just said screw it and done easier combos, but it did pay off when I actually got it last match. random 5D's were FB Fafnir, and the last one was me thinking I had a burst lol...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgCok7KM5Kg&t=16m42s Eddie (mostly lose)

- Kinda same as above matches. But I felt like I played more scared and didn't make as many big reads.

[Orrax]

I'll try to go through these and make some more specific comments when I have time, but after watching through them once:

 

In general, I think you're winning because you are winning the neutral game. Which is very good! But I think the reason that you're having trouble against Axl, Millia, and Eddie is simply that you're dropping too many combos. Axl, Millia, and Eddie tend to win the neutral game against Sol even if your neutral game is strong. The way Sol beats those characters is that they don't have the best answers to Sol's game in close (especially Eddie), so you CANNOT let them out once you get in. Every time you drop a combo, you let them out. Go for easier combos if you have to, but don't let them get away.

 

I know I'm not the best person to tell people to stop dropping combos, because I drop plenty. But keeping momentum is crucial against Axl, Millia, and Eddie because they have a definite edge against Sol when it comes to neutral, so not dropping combos becomes even more important than usual.

 

Also, I thought your oki was good overall, but I don't know why you sometimes jump over an opponent and then air-dash backwards into them. Is there some tech you're going for? I'm asking because I've never found a good use for it.

 

And that Millia player was amazing, which is exactly what I've come to expect of Sym.

[VR-Raiden]

Indeed, I drop an alarming amount of combos. I'm gonna work on consciously recognizing when I'm dropping in matches and switch to easy mode stuff.

On the backwards airdash thing, I've been trying to eliminate it completely but I think it reared it's head again vs Slayer if I recall. I typically used it to give myself better positioning, and CH a throw attempt during my airdash with j.P/j.D when their throw whiff extended their hurtbox forward. Better players aren't mashing throw there so it's highly gimmicky and I'm not gonna jump over like that anymore if I can remember. Until we get glorious cross up j.K in Xrd.

Yeah I can't be tooo disappointed getting wrecked by Sym, he's hands down best Millia I've faced.

Thanks for the advice as always.

[Orrax]

I know I said I'd do some more specific comments, but I've had a ton going on lately, so the comments are now well over a month overdue. I'm sorry about that. But I thought I could at least go through and make more comments for Axl, Millia, and Eddie, since those are the matchups you're concerned with. So, here are my comments.

 

Vs Axl: 

 

- Delayed 5H was a good start to the round, and I think you meant to cancel to Fafnir, but accidentally hit D instead.

 

- Way too much jumping. The ground is much safer against Axl. He's one of the few characters it's not safe to stall from a distance with j.H, since he can hit you out of it from pretty far. Generally, if you're in the air against Axl, it should be to move in. Bandit Revolver and Bandit Bringer can also help to close the distance, but they tend to be riskier than a simple air dash. Also, I find Bandit Bringer goes over more of Axl's stuff, but it's also easy to Axl to deal with if he sees it coming. That said, you seemed to make good use of Bandit Bringer, and made some nice reads with it.

 

- Riot Stomp has some situational uses against Axl, but I saw you do it midscreen twice, which seemed somewhat questionable to me. It got you out of pressure the first time, though, so it worked out, but the second time you got punished for it. And then two midscreen Riot Stomps in a row in the last round! You got away with it, though. And then the third counter hit.

 

- Seeing you get a CH GF after sweep because Filthy Lucre kept hitting buttons was pretty satisfying. Axl's burst after it seemed pretty predictable, though, considering the damage it would have led to.

 

- I saw you try to do 2S from far away, which is ordinarily a decent move to stall with, but not really against Axl. General rule against Axl is to not hit buttons from full screen because, unlike other characters, he can actually hit you out of them.

 

- Axl can 2K under j.P and j.H, so j.S is the go to air-to-ground move against him.

 

- Mistimed WT after j.P really hurt your momentum. Really nice burst bait and punish later in the round, though.

 

- Nice pickup off of CH GF in the last round.

 

 

Vs Millia:

 

- VV after FB disc is a really bad idea. She has enough time to wait to see if you DP, and then to run in for the mixup. If you have time, the safest thing to do is usually to jump block it, but be wary of Millia doing a meaty 2K. I believe Grand Viper can go under it, which is ok if you have meter for the RC, but it's still risky if she jumps.

 

- I've never had much luck with Bandit Bringer against Millia. She's just too fast, and often she's already in the air throwing pin, which is terrible to get CH by.

 

- Wake up VV is pretty tempting against Millia, but most good Millias are very used to baiting it, and Millia can make her oki pretty safe. It gets more useful if she's expecting you to jump out, since she usually has to commit to a meaty low.

 

- Be careful of those air-dash cancelled normals in pressure.

 

- Against Millia, I find that super jumping tends to be much better than regular jumping. She's often just a little too high for Sol's normal jump, so the super jump can help compensate for that. Plus, super jumping is a much better way to escape the corner.

 

- Run up 5H after air-throw? I'm assuming that was a mistake.

 

- Millia's normals are really good against Sol, so VVing her stuff can be surprisingly effective, despite how risky it is. But I would stay away from it on wake-up unless Millia isn't baiting it -- it has some uses in neutral when Millia is getting too confident in her buttons.

 

- That said, starting a round with VV against Millia is a really bad idea.

 

- Mostly I just got the impression that Sym knows the matchup better than you do. He was prepared for Sol's options, even the ones you weren't utilizing very much (I saw him try to stop you from jumping out of disc oki at least once, even though you weren't really trying that), while there seemed to be some stuff you weren't very familiar with (one in particular I noticed was that air-dash cancelled normals in pressure seemed to be throwing you off). That said, Sym played very well and very safe, and you were forced to take a lot of risks, which Sym was able to capitalize on. I don't think you played badly, but you seemed to be lacking some Millia-specific tech that could have helped. I also felt like you started getting impatient toward the end, which Sym was able to capitalize on as well.

 

 

Vs. Eddie:

 

- Just to note, I'm focusing on the second one.

 

- I'm seeing too much jumping when little Eddie is practically on top of you. Nobiru is way too good at stopping that.

 

- MarlinPie is trying to poke you a lot, even on his wake-up. You need to find ways to disabuse him of that -- 6P, 5H, 2D, GF FRC, etc. I know Eddie is good at abusing his pokes, but it's also important to remember that it's one of his only defensive tools. His backdash is meh, his super is meh, Break the Law is gimmicky -- so be prepared for poking.

 

- I saw you do air BR right into him. Did you miss the FRC?

 

- I saw you miss a dustloop opportunity (5K 6P delay 2H), but instead of going for the more standard alternate combo (j.SD xx j.BR), you did sj.SD, which whiffed.

 

- Too much Riot Stomp against Eddie. It's just not very good against him. It can sometimes be used to escape K summon pressure (IB the first hit, Riot Stomp to get out of the second), but it's still risky. I think there used to be some matches of 012 doing that to Isa back in AC, and 012 got blown up for it.

 

- Sol's j.P can clash with Eddie's 6P? Huh. Good to know.

 

- Nice guard gauge crank and then kill.

 

- Second match seems like you're dealing with pokes considerably better, but your timing is a bit off (I keep seeing you trading when you should be able to win).

 

- Opting for j.BR FRC as an approach when you could have easily done GF FRC on the ground instead is something I almost never agree with, and I see you got punished for it.

 

- On the whole, I think you played well the second match.

 

- Third match, I think you just dropped a few things and generally got outplayed. You made some good reads (used j.BR FRC to get out of the corner), but MarlinPie adapted really well.

 

- I think you're still doing too much Riot Stomp in the corner against Eddie, and you're eating CH Drills.

 

- Most of the first round of the fourth match was a lot of failed corner escape attempts from you. I get the feeling that you were getting too desperate to get out of pressure, and you got impatient, and MarlinPie was able to capitalize off of it. I think the second round was better, but that Bandit Revolver was blocked way too deep, and you seemed to lose confidence in your pokes at neutral.

 

- Bracket reset, and you're still trying Riot Stomp in the corner, and it is still not working. Also, the dropped WT combo really hurt in the first round, imho, because I think you really needed the momentum at that point. MarlinPie had been doing a very good job of controlling the neutral game, and that dropped combo let him get back to it. Second and third round, same thing. Dropped combos are killing your momentum, and you seem to be losing confidence in your game plan. You had the third round won, if not for the dropped combo.

 

- I'm not sure why you're not going for the safe jump after throw in the corner. Is there something else you're going for? 2nd match after the reset, I saw you get a throw in the corner, and then it seemed like you backed off and let him escape.

 

- I've seen multiple rounds now that you would have won if not for a dropped combo.

 

- I've also seen you drop a WT combo twice now because you did too many hits before the VV ender.

 

- I think you might be being a bit too cautious with your burst. I think you're worried about it being baited, but I'm seeing quite a few places I think you would have gotten away with it.

 

- Too much FB Fafnir throw bait oki. MarlinPie is just not falling for it.

 

 

And that's all I've got. I think you played well overall, but some matchup-specific stuff hurt you, and your confirms were really inconsistent, which lost you momentum multiple times and caused you to throw away a few rounds.

[VR-Raiden]

Dude thanks for pointing out so much, I can tell it took a while. I definitely appreciate it, especially since I'm bound to run into them at NEC. I also have a +R "local" this weekend but NEC will likely be the last +R tourney I truly care about (and even then I will have Xrd so not sure how much lol). Having played the demo I can tell my +R game was affected in some minor ways, some for the better and some for worse.

When I get some time I'll review those matches and confirm what you advised or questioned.

I did look at Eddie a bit since then and should at least be better at poking summon in blockstrings and FD jumping out or punishing 2S > far drill.

At TFC (right before I stained my hands with Xrd demo) I lost to Blake&White Order-Sol in winners, then got eliminated by PacStrife in a Sol mirror of all things. That was the only streamed match: http://www.twitch.tv/funkyp/b/577090845?t=4h58m50s

I already know a few reasons why I lost, but if you have time to add anything feel free. I don't use 6K+HS well, he does. I used empty FB Fafnir once and instantly regretted it. I safejump when he has VV RC and it ended badly for me more often than not. I did a lot of bad double jumps and not respecting 5K AA. Panic a lot on defense. My frame traps were terrible and I got mashed out with 2D a lot. Failed VV punish was huge in the last match and I completely fall apart after that.

Thanks again!

[Sesshyru]

VS HOS

 

Give up because HOS > SOL

[Orrax]

Sol mirrors can be really annoying. 5K is a good AA against Sol, but j.H beats it sometimes, but not always, depending on spacing. 2S is also a great tool against Sol because it tends to beat 2D and run ins, but only if 2D is a little out of its range. But 2D tends to beat 5S and 5K and 6P, so it's good to throw out a bit outside of its range. And then there's VV to deal with. Yeah, this matchup is silly.

 

Anyway, I got the comments done much faster this time:

 

- First round, I'm noticing some wild play from you. The air BR use is just really questionable -- I don't think the j.BR FRC is worth the meter, and you otherwise seem to be doing it too low to the ground in neutral. The only consistent use I've found for it in neutral is after a super jump and airdash to escape the corner.

 

- PacStrife is going for much simpler combos, and he's playing very consistently as a result.

 

- VV RC run up VV RC from PacStrife? That's some wanton expenditure of meter right there. I don't think your safe jump was a bad idea (he's still got to burn through his meter to do the VV RC), but if you want to bait VV (and you should when he has 50%), it's better to jump like you're going to safe jump, and then airdash backwards to make it whiff.

 

- If you block BR standing like that in the third round of the first match, you're at +3, so 5K is a pretty solid poke to throw out. He pretty much has to do VV to beat it. There's also always IB -> throw, but I'm sure you know about that already.

 

- Nice burst bait from PacStrife. You could wait until he hits you with a jump normal to burst -- I generally find people like to burst bait with their jump, so waiting for a jump normal is generally a bit safer. But against Sol, j.P makes it still risky.

 

- You could have turned that last round of the first match around pretty easily -- you got a 5K AA into Sidewinder -- but you dropped the combo. Part of the issue here is just that PacStrife is hitting his combos more consistently.

 

- First round of the second match, you left too much space between 2P and 6P, and you got hit by 2D CH.

 

- I think you meant to do VV (1) RC, but the first hit whiffed and you got an RC on the second hit, which unnecessarily lost you 50 meter and the knockdown.

 

- You got a CH VV (2) again, and you tried to follow up the combo and then lost the knockdown to an otg. I think you are just trying to do too much in a match. Sometimes it's better just to take the knockdown and not do anything fancy, because the fancy options are often hard, and frequently will result in you losing your momentum.

 

- VV RC VV again from PacStrife. I'm really not sure what he's trying to accomplish with that, but it seems to have worked each time.

 

- You got a bit greedy after landing that gold burst at the end of the first round. Dash -> GF FRC -> block would have covered all of his options and given you a chance to react.

 

- Start of the next round. A bit too much j.P oki, imho. I think it's mostly useful if your opponent is expecting a move with more hitstun (like j.S or j.H) because it gives you a chance to WT earlier than they might expect. Otherwise, j.S or j.H is pretty much always preferable.

 

- Nice use of Riot Stomp FRC WT! I rarely see that one landed, but that was pretty much the perfect time for it.

 

- Last round of the second match -- you did j.H oki when it was out of range, but j.S would have worked fine.

 

- Dropped 5K AA combo might have won you the match.

 

- VV RC counter hit from you near the end, and here is a place I think you should have tried to pick up, because you win if you land it.

 

- First round of the last match, and yeah, the empty jump FB Fafnir didn't work out. I'm pretty sure PacStrife is doing 6K+H on his wakeup, which makes that mixup unsafe.

 

- Bad burst. I think you're a bit too afraid of his mixup. Fuzzy jump OS is generally the best way out of Sol's pressure and mixup game.

 

- Good use of j.P, but a bit too much mashing it. You should have been able to cancel to VV sooner.

 

- GF with no FRC is really risky against Sol after 2D in pressure. If the other Sol IBs the 2D, he can jump and get a CH j.D.

 

- I see what you mean about the VV punish. All you had to do was do 5S again and then 5H GV would have comboed, and that'd pretty much have been the game.

 

- I'm seeing a lot of risky stuff now. I think you were just frustrated after missing the VV punish.

 

- Last round, PacStrife got some momentum and was able to capitalize off it, and that was the game.

 

 

Hopefully that helped. Good luck at NEC.

[VR-Raiden]

Thanks. I get sad watching this again. I used to play Sol mirrors every day -_-

I can't really explain the air BR FRC other than I'm just experimenting with it too much ever since being able to do it (can do it on stick, never got good at it on pad).

what you mentioned is actually something I think playing Xrd demo for 2 weeks did good for me, I have seemed to dial back on a lot of fancy stuff that I dropped most times anyway in favor of basics. And apparently, I'm gonna be stuck in demo vortex once again shortly! :P

[Sesshyru]

Are you gonna bring the demo tomorrow?

[VR-Raiden]

Nah the JP demo is over, and the US one doesn't start til next Tuesday.