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VR-Raiden

[+R] Sol vs. Order-Sol

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Use this thread to discuss the vs. Order-Sol matchup in +R.

Much info from the the old matchup thread for AC is still relevant. It can be found here: Sol vs Order Sol

I will be editing this first post with information on the matchup soon.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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  • Punishes (on block/reaction):

      Combo Notes:

        [*]-

      [*]On reaction, you can GV under lvl 1 Rock-it(dash punch) done from very long range for a guaranteed punish.

      [*]How to punish Storm Viper: After blocking Storm Viper (any level), (dash if necessary) delayed 2H to punish. On level 1 Storm Viper, if Order-Sol doesn't cancel to Action Charge, you hit him as he falls with a normal hit 2H, which should be followed by a j.S SW (include j.K before SW if he is too low). If he does cancel to Action Charge, it will result in a counter hit 2H which goes into many options. The 2H hits before he is able to FRC and block. If you fail to confirm the counter hit and j.S immediately as normal, just JC to j.S/j.H(1) into SW. On level 2 and 3 Storm Viper, the delayed 2H will always counter hit. CH 6H CLBB is another punish option, but will not work if he does no Action Charge on level 1 Storm Viper. On a farther whiffed Storm Viper, dash j.P xN SW is more reliable.

      [*]-

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    Order-Sol is scarier in this installment. His lvl2 Rock-it gives him hard knockdown for oki and lvl2 BHB is a good punish that sends you straight to the wall if you're anywhere near the corner. It's best to keep yourself away from the corner at all times. Also just to keep calm when HOS has lvl2-3 charge, blocking wrong will let him do so much, thanks to charge meter's changes and overall improvements on his normals. Good thing VV is still amazing in cases of being under pressure.

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    honestly i'd worry about lows extra when he has lv 2, because 2D->lv2 BHB near a corner is too dangerous. not only that but if it isn't near a corner you just gave me a free full charge because it sends you packing.

    his 6P has also become much more useful on the ground as a stuff tool because it staggers

    basically it's the same matchup as before but he's harder to deal with now

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    hmmm I'm trying to think if any new Sol stuff helps this matchup specifically. Only thing I can think of is added untechable time on CH 2H so you can do better stuff off it, this matchup is probably the one you'll benefit most from that change. It can work as an anticipatory anti air on Order Sol against jP spam or otherwise occasionally due to his low jump arc, and as a storm viper punish. 6H can still do that stuff too but its more risky. we have the ability to confirm off farther ground/air hits too now but that's not really specific to this matchup. Overall yeah it should be about the same just a bit harder maybe.

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    I'm gpoing to try out punishes against HOS in training and write down the best choices. Then I'll post them here.

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    one of the biger buffs is the frame data shuffle for order sol's stuff (on hos's side of the matchup) so i would really advise you review it. the new versions of rock it in particular, along with the higher rewards for hos stuff involving level 2 charge, probably made this matchup harder while sol didnt get a whole lot in particular to help him outside of combo stuff. ground strings into fafnir to maintain pressure are probably riskier in this matchup because of some of the options hos would have post-stagger (his fafnir, backdash rock it, storm viper, c.s, and gunblaze all beat some of the options you might do.)

    thats all i got for you guys on that matchup coming from the hos side of it.

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    Ok I got around to test out counters so here they are

    6P

    - Our own 6P: Sol's is still faster than Order-Sol's and can lead to good damage in some situations.

    - 2HS: You will have to input just as HOS moves his fist back.

    - f.5S: can stop run-in 6P attempts

    - 5HS: same as f.5S

    - 5K: still is our best normal in terms of speed and uses.

    - 2D: still "ONE WITH THE EARTH" with this move as well. You''ll have to make sure you hit first, since 6P hits crouching characters.

    Storm Viper (Ground version)

    -2HS: You can either block the first two hits or space well enough it catches him on ascent The former method may not work on lvl. 3 since he either hits you with the heel drop or you end up switching sides after blocking and can't land the 2HS.

    - 5K: Still the best anti-air

    - Volcanic Viper: still the best DP

    lvl.2 Block Head Buster

    - Just block. Couldn't figure out a way to counter up-close.

    j.HS, j.K, j.P, j.S

    - 2HS: VR, you were right about that low jump arc. Makes countering this move easier, but you'll have to throw the move out before he lands on your hurtbox

    - 5K: Still best anti-air

    - Volcanic Viper: Still best DP

    6K

    - 2D: Lets you get back to your roots and land a still great counter hit

    - GV: Slide under his foot and POW! To the sky!

    I'll edit this post when I can test his other specials and crouching moves. I looked at our frame data on the wiki and Sol's 2D is faster and seems to have longer reach since Order-Sol's 2D reach got nerfed in Plus R, but he also has better frame advantage on block and faster recovery.

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    As for some general stuff in this match...

    Neutral

    - I don't like being air-to-air anywhere near him, his j.P is faster than ours. And on clashes he seems to either win the exchange or trade favorably for him.

    - Always be mindful of his FB Fafnir. Remember it is invulnerable to lows so it can stuff 2D attempts. Be careful with far range GF, Fafnir can CH it, then you're in for pain and almost if not stunned.

    - 5K is not good for anti-airing his j.H. VV is the only reliable option for beating it.

    - Due to his low jump, f.S and 5H are riskier to poke with, but should still be used in conjunction with your other stuff in neutral. 2S is good since it can recover in time to block or antiair VV.

    Offense

    - on safejump oki, deep j.S will stuff reversal Gun Blaze if timed perfectly. j.H can be used but it will not hit a Gun Blaze, so keep that in mind if they start using that.

    Defense

    - Look for 2H in pressure/oki when they have 50 tension to RC.

    - Him running in on oki, chances are he's gonna 6K, it is throw invulnerable. You can reversal VV/GV it, but if he does Gun Blaze, you're getting hurt.

    - in corner, RS can counter a Fafnir.

    - be wary of tick throws near corner since he can combo after it

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