[+R] Sol vs. Slayer

[VR-Raiden]

Use this thread to discuss the vs. Slayer matchup in +R.

Much info from the the old matchup thread for AC is still relevant. It can be found here: Sol vs Slayer

I will be editing this first post with information on the matchup soon.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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Punishes (on block/reaction):

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Combo Notes:

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[VR-Raiden]

Neutral

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Offense

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Defense

- When cornered, don't try poking your way out. Doing RS or GV is especially risky. Slayer has too many ways of stuffing or avoiding your options with his normals, leading to harder punishes on you since you're in corner. Safest way out is looking for a safe chance to super jump airdash out of corner. If you need extra distance, following that with air BR is usually pretty safe.

- Be able to react to his 6K. It is plus on block, but instant blocking helps. With a large enough gap, you can 5K it. VV will also work of course.

- On oki, Slayer can 6K such that the last active frame connects as you get up. This is safe to any reversal slower than 5f. Therefore, reversal HVV can counter it.

- Since Slayer pressure is mostly link-based, instant block > VV is strong.

- Dandy Step > S (high swipe) is -3 on block, and cancel to H (overhead punch) is interruptable by 5K with good timing. So 5K is a good option after blocking it up close. Also, on hit there is a gap, so attempts to reset with the H can be VV'd.

More later

[Orrax]

I used to hate this match up until I learned how to play it, and now it's one of my favorites.

 

Openers:

- You start at a distance that Slayer excels at, so the best thing to do usually is just to air back dash away or block.

- f.S or 5H can catch some of his moves, but they're kind of risky.

- 2S should beat Slayer's 2D, but if you're a little late it might trade, and that's bad.

- Sometimes air dash j.P over Slayer's head and then j.S or j.K coming down after you cross him up can work in your favor, but use it sparingly.

 

Neutral:

- Always keep in mind that Slayer has limited options for approaching you. He can approach on the ground by dashing or by Dandy Step, but both are vulnerable to neutral Gun Flame. His air to ground is great, but they still tend to lose to your own j.P, j.H, and air throw.

- Neutral Gun Flame is a great tool in this match. It catches both Dandy Step and Slayer's dash, and can even catch things like Mappa at a distance. That said, make sure you're only doing it far away! If you're too close, you will get CH'd by 2H and other various moves into pain. Ideally, you should be doing Gun Flame outside of his iad j.H range, so closer to full screen is better. However, the main reason you want to do Gun Flame isn't just that it catches some of Slayer's approaches -- it forces Slayer to take to the air. Once you get him jumping, he's generally easy prey to your j.P. He has some ways around it, but Sol's j.P is hard for him to deal with. A word of caution, however: DO NOT GUN FLAME IF SLAYER HAS 50%! He will CH DoT you into PAIN. You can GF FRC to bait it out, though, and punish him for trying.

- The primary spacing tool in this match is just stalling at a distance with j.P and j.H and air back dashes. You want to watch and see what he does. If you can make him approach, you're at an advantage. However, sometimes you have to approach Slayer. I usually like to approach with a lot of feints -- I'll run toward him and do j.P or j.H, then back dash away to see if I can draw out an unsafe move.

- Approaching him on the ground with a poke is pretty risky, but the safest way to do it is probably with 2P 2K. These moves have a quick recovery, so you'll be ready to block if he does Dandy Step. If you do slower recovery moves like f.S and 5H (which have their uses), you risk getting hit by Dandy Step -> pretty much anything.

- At max range, 5H counters Slayer's 2H cleanly.

- 2S has a good hit box as usual and 2D does go under some moves, but generally I like to stick with 2P as a poke because it usually recovers in time to block a lot of what Slayer does.

- He has good AA, but well timed j.H is still a good air-to-ground. Sometimes crossing him up with air dash j.H or j.P and then doing an air normal just before you land can be useful for an approach as well.

- Slayer has trouble punishing a running H VV with the kick extension. Keep in mind that he can punish, but it's generally a good idea to make that as hard as you can for him. Also, run up H VV RC can work as an approach, if you're willing to spend the meter.

- As always, GF FRC is a great approaching tool. It covers his options on the ground, and if you do GF FRC -> running j.H, it covers most of his options in the air as well. Be careful of some of his super shenanigans (especially air super).

- VV, especially running H VV, can be useful for dealing with Slayer's superior poking game. But, as always, be wary of being baited.

 

Offense:

- When you get on top of him, Sol can mostly play his game, but be careful of Slayer's 3F 2P and his back dash, which he can cancel into a jump or a special move. Both are strong defensive tools, but poke baiting with strings like 2P 6P can work to catch Slayer's 2P and GF FRC from outside of his command throw range can catch back dash cancelled special moves.

- Slayer's back dash cancelled jump is very safe and often very difficult to punish properly. True meaty moves can help prevent him from abusing it on wake up, and using lows in your pressure can catch him out of it. Once he's jumped, though, the only way I know of to punish is to air throw or by happening to catch him not blocking with j.H. Alternatively, you can j.P spam him and drag him back to the ground.

- GF FRC in pressure is good because it can catch Dandy Step and various other things. Be careful of him jumping out and then doing j.H on the way down, though. You can help to discourage this by doing GF FRC and then immediately doing your own j.H.

- His FB Dandy is a reversal you should look out for, but keep in mind that it has no throw invulnerability.

 

Defense:

- I think VR-Raiden covered this pretty well. I will say that GV tends to beat Dandy Step and 6H pretty cleanly, but it is still pretty risky. Riot Stomp can also be used similarly with your back to the corner, and can go over 2H, but if Slayer does 6P, you're in serious trouble.

[VR-Raiden]

Some more comments

Neutral

- Slayer j.H hurtbox got bigger in +R if I'm not mistaken, so antiair 5K can actually work against it sometimes now.

- Can't do so much dash 2D here due to his 2H hopping lows. Well spaced 5H will CH his 2H.

Offense

- FB Dandy Step is throwable, but keep in mind he can BDC to prevent that. I was using OS WT on safejumps to catch it before, but Mac was BDCing it when I was playing him in casuals last FR, so that was failing.

- Speaking of safejumps, they don't seem as strong simply because Slayer has so many wake up options. Worth noting though when you do use them, his upward super hits very fast so you need a low and properly timed jump-in to be safe to that. Also on BDC>jump on wake-up, you can OS 5K and it will tag his jump high up if he doesn't air FD immediately. However this tends to lose to FB DS>crosswise, and doesn't catch a backdash, so not always a foolproof method.

- I find delay airdash j.P mash on oki to be pretty effective, it catches backdash and regular Dandy Step stuff, and beats throw attempts like usual.

Punishes

- As Orrax said Dandy Steps can be GV'd, on reaction with a sharp eye. If he FRC it he is safe though.

- Recommend BBU punish on block is CH 2D> no mash GV.

- As stated above, Dandy Step> S is -3, punishable by 5K at very close range.

- FB Pilebunker is -3, can punish with 5K but keep in mind the block stun is LONG so don't press too early.

- Crosswise and Pilebunker easily punishable with dash 5K.

- Upper super and Dead on Time easily punishable (within range)

[Orrax]

I just realized I accidentally typed that 5H beats Slayer's 2D when I meant to say that 5H beats Slayer's 2H. I don't recommend trying 5H against 2D. In fact, I don't recommend messing with 2D in general. The start up is fast, but it's usually unsafe on block. Slayer can make it safe by hitting you at the absolute end of the move, but usually that only happens if he does it as a meaty on oki. If you block it, it's usually punishable by 5K.

 

Also, OTGs can mess with Slayer's wake-up back-dash timing, so it's often not a bad idea to throw them in here and there. I tend to use OTGs fairly frequently in this match-up.