Kliff vs Potemkin

[pochp]

Discuss the matchup here. I'll add information to this post when I can get around to it. Not all the matchups are represented in my local scene, and the character is new, so please contribute!

Try to avoid taking unnecessary risks. You can instant overhead Potemkin crouching with j.ksh into drill or w/e, so you have some strong mixup anytime, but you also need to be careful of the backdash. Find and practice some setups against the backdash, what I usually do is aim for meaty jump in into low, and then throw if he backdashes, since I couldn't find a normal fast enough to use on reaction to punish the backdash due to kliff's slow falling speed. 2d 236p doesn't combo on Potemkin, and corner 236s frc IAD j.h works but the timing is weird, you need to do j.h early.

At neutral, you can poke potemkin. Drill beats backdash, hammerfall, and slidehead, so it's something you should consider if you opponent is using those moves a lot, but it is unsafe. 623H anti is really great, because it's rather safe against potemkin. Since he moves rather slowly in the air, you should have time to react with it, and it will also either beat or clash Potemkin's j.d. Using a 5d is super risky if potemkin has meter for super, because if you get CH while doing it by Giganter, you get dizzied. He also has a lot of stun resistance and high defense like A.B.A, so dizzies are unlikely to work unless it's been a more than one combo/counter hit.

[Agito]

In this matchup I mostly just play safe by using j.S 5S and 2HS since Pot can reflect projectiles. I also use 214K to get out of being cornered, not sure if it's safe or not since the Pot players I've played don't punish it. An overall good MU for Kliff if you can stick to pokes and follow up on confirms without being hit or cornered.

[lofo]

I've found this matchup really tough. Potemkin's high defense, high stun resist and high damage/stun output make for a match that takes a long time to win and only two mistakes to lose.

I've found 214K to be decent for getting out of the corner, but you need to cancel into it off a poke, like far S or sweep. If you do it raw you risk it getting smashed all sorts of things, most notably his j.S and hammerfall, which will turn around and counterhit you for meterless full combo if you hit him during it.

My general plan is to poke with far S->2H(->P-Roar if he's not flicking or S-roar if connect vs hammerfall and get a CH on the second hit), or sometimes 2H and confirm into 2D if I notice I've tagged a hammerfall. Drill is not bad and has better payoff, but I'm anxious about relying on it too much because I expect serious players will learn to punish/SB it reliably and Potemkin's damage is too scary to just hand that to him. For the moment it's good, though. I usually combo into 2S S-roar to blow him back and get more room to keep poking. Not sure if there's room to capitalize more there.

Potemkin will sometimes slidehead, which you can 5K over. Or he might try to jump over your pokes. You can low profile his non-j.S jump-ins (except j.D but that's not really a jump-in). 6P is not fast enough to be reliable unless he double jumps, his j.S will smack your lower body too quick in my experience. It works for good payoff if he double jumps, though. 623H is more reliable, faster, huge, great answer. He might try to clash with it with j.D, in which case you should momentarily stop mashing so you don't cancel into anything off the clash to keep up the barrage, then go back to mashing.

If he gets in, be patient in your blocking, I guess. Sole Survivor is more reliable here than usual due to Potemkin's weight and size, so take advantage of that, and maybe try out some 2S loops if he lands close. Don't use 214P much, you can't afford the stun it builds and his throw game is very strong.

If I'm going in, I'm usually IADing with j.S and looking to cancel into j.drill if I spot a hammerfall. I've found cancelling into j.H to be too slow sometimes, but it can work.

[pochp]

Yeah, I find the matchup rough too, but at least you can fight him, because of f.S 2H, since it beats hammerfall, and 623H handles his air approach nicely. Actually fun footsies until you get hit.

I also prefer ending combos in 236s and returning to neutral midscreen rather than going for oki, his backdash is too good. 5h ender is also safe enough to try if you know what he knows imo, since his air options are limited.

Drill with 50 meter is good to call out stuff, on block you just RC j.k 2k whatever. I just feel like it works extremely well specifically in this matchup because it beats a lot of the tools potemkin players tend to rely on a lot, and other characters generally have a hard time dealing with at some ranges.

I think 214p is still something that's worth using in the matchup, against specific things. If he goes for 6k on oki, which is an overhead and throw invincible, so something they can often go for if they don't think they have time to set up a jump in, like after getting a megafist, you can definitely dodge and turn the tide to your favor. Dodging hammerfall in pressure is OK too. Dead angle out if you can too, or FD then backdash/jump/poke/whatever if you prefer, but as much as patience is good, you can't just down back forever and wait for an obvious hole, you'll have your guard bar too high, and then he'll kill you in one combo off anything. (obv at least some patience is essential, if not you just die)

[lofo]

I'm not really convinced of 214P's usefulness. I can just backdash his 6K instead (and generally go for that), which doesn't leave me open to P.buster. Vs hammerfall, if he breaks into P.buster (or break FRC oh god), you're screwed. Even if you do slap him, he can mash out into his great throw. IDK if he can mash into buster, it might be possible. I guess 214P~P RC might be viable? I havn't tested it much.

wrt pressure, I figured backdash, IBing, FDing were a given. Other than those, I usually go for Sole Survivor, DAA, 2K (it low profiles a surprising number of pokes) and drill if i read hammerfall. Maybe you're right that drill with RC on block is something we should be leaning on. It's a bit messy but it gets the job done. I've been doing that myself but I keep wondering if there's a better way, hah.

edit - Oh, when DAAing, take note of the very short range. Potemkin can pretty easily hit you from outside that, so use it carefully.

[pochp]

Backdash will lose to 5k which I think 214p should beat as well. Not saying it's the best, but it should be considered. On a side note, maybe going for j.ksh after the 214p followup would be decent against potemkin? I mean it would beat his throw attempt, and would be more rewarding than hitting with throw... probably just gimmicky though. I'd have to try.

Hm, I'd have to try 2k. I use it against other characters, but I was just too afraid to try against pot.

[lofo]

I think if he mashes hard enough he can throw you out of your jump startup, but maybe not. Let me know if you get it to work, I'd be very interested!

Oh, speaking of mashing, a nice thing about this matchup is that if you get stunned during some long anim moves, like heat knuckle, you can mash like a fiend and get out before he'd get a combo follow-up, which is nice to reset your stun counter, lol. I guess he can black beat combo you in the meantime? In any case, be prepared to replace your stick parts.

[lofo]

So I'd noticed some weird interactions before but only yesterday did I properly confirm them.

Kliff's backwards walk has a wide window where it goes over slidehead. You can't do it at the last moment, it's not a "reversal", but it's quite doable in matches. You need to be fair enough away that the slidehead doesn't put you into a block animation, then start holding back when you just see his head droop. Since "walk back" has no whiff animation, unlike say 5K, you have plenty of time to punish if you're in range with f.S, perhaps into reflex roar FRC combo. It's also safe even if you misread because then it's just a block.

If you're a bit closer, 6H also goes over slidehead if done very late, and punishes to boot! Please don't ask why I was pressing 6H during slidehead in the first place.

On the subject of 214P~P, since I tested that. On level 2 slip recovery it barely combos into throw without a CH, with a CH it's easy. On level 3 slip recovery it won't combo into throw even on CH. SO if they're good at mashing, you do really need to RC to make it work. Fortunately RCing it can net you a good combo.

Oh, also I posted some combos that might be useful here http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17053-R-Kliff-Combo-Thread&p=1569493&viewfull=1#post1569493

[lofo]

I play this matchup with my friend pretty often, and for a while I felt maybe it's not so bad, and now I'm back to thinking it's horrible. Everything I do is either horribly risky or has no payoff, so my EV on exchanges is trash, and oh yeah actually his pokes are amazing anyways. If he's on point about jumping over f.S, I really have a hard time doing anything. I can sometimes get some stuff going with some gimmicks, but he has enormous health and at some point they'll fail and he can just clean up. Really frustrated with this matchup right now.