AC: General Discussion

[Sundown]

Allright here is my attempt at compiling all of Dizzy's changes posted in the general info thread, and what i have seen in videos:

Originally Posted by Kbalch

Until someone does a better job translating the dizzy section this is the closest i could figure. Some of this has already been mentioned.

-Fish do not disappear when hit.

-New slash move in air. command is 2s. (probably her EX j.s sprites)

-Gamma ray slightly stronger

-Dizzy takes more damage and dies even easier. LOL

-Homing bubble, lasts roughly 3 seconds.

-Scythe move (formerly 236s and 623s) new input using k. This was probably done so you can do setups where you hold the spear and use scythe without negative edging the spear.

-2k gatling into 5hs?

-J.Hs slower

-New colors and voice acting.

With her taking more dmg i think we will need to continue playing like champions.

There was some stuff me and my friend google couldnt translate so if someone posts a more complete translation ill delete this post.

EDIT: Fish stays out even if Dizzy is hit AS LONG as she isnt hit during her recovery of the fish summon.

Originally posted by Alcyon One

- the scythe also comes out and travels slower.

- 2k > 5h gatling works, but combo's only on crouching opponent.

- j2s looks like her ggx js/(ex js), but the hit box is supposedly pretty small.

Originally posted by Chun_li1

Dizzy:

JHS: become slower

214+pksh: don't disapear if you get hit like before

looks like you have to do twice the command and combine effect for example:

214P, the fish appears, then you can add the fonction like push P it will bite four time!

214K>HS, it will lock opponent bite one time and use laser!

so that mean, : 1 make appears the right fish then add:

P: bite twice

K: opponent lock and bite once

S: Upward laser

Hs: normal laser

no more FRC on Dizzy's 2D but she has Jump cancel on it!

Dizzy's bubble is faster so you can do at far distance 2D JC bubble double air dash!

New command for the 421S?: 236S/K

Gatling combo :K, Hs and HS, 2D disapear and new: 2K, HS added but it become a combo only on a crouched opponent

Defense rate become weaker

Force Break: Bubble, it locked opponent like Bridget Roger and is at same speed, when it touch opponent it longs for 3 seconds

New moves: still unknow had to wait for 8 days

Gamma Ray damage up

New: J2S looks like GGX JS

Necro Grab motion changed to 632146+P

Finally, and KEEPING IN MIND it is WAY TOO EARLY for any tier lists, this one was posted in some japanese blog and it seems to reflect the impression of a lot of japanese players, PLEASE do not rely on this or think of it as trust-worthy, as it is way too early, but since im trying to make this as comprehensive and complete as possible, here is the first attempt at a tier list with Accent Core released on Japan, it was posted on Dec. 25:

Originally posted by shinquickman

I dunno if the credibility of the blog I saw is good. Anyway

SS tier- Eddie, ABA, Order-Sol, Baiken, Jam- Broken

S tier- Potemkin, Faust, Testament, May, Slayer? (referred to as moustache?), and Dizzy- Some broken aspects?

Only really interested me because May's up on tiers!

So here we go, guys plz feel free to correct me, just trying to get something started here, forum has been pretty slow like Kbalch says.

[fragile]

i saw a ky v dizzy match that the wish didn't disappear on hit

[低姿勢]

Fish disapears if dizzy is hit durning her recovery, if shes hit while shes attacking or whatever then it doenst disapear. Also lol ah umm thats not the first attempt at a tier list, umm theres tons of tier lists all over teh place on random players blogs, and in threads etc. Thats not the only one. In general the top tier is ALWAYS hos and eddie, and then randomly other characters get thrown in there like jam, may, potemkin, aba,testment, and even sometimes ive seen axl baiken and faust.... Ive only seen dizzy near the top tier in a few of them... So yea theres lots of tier lists all over the place... Theres no super omega standard one besides the fact that HOS and eddie are always at the top, and chipp and anji are almost always at or near the bottom generaly that I see shrug.

[Sundown]

^^^ Man thats nice to know, by the time i created the thread i havent seen that video but you guys are right, if she is hit while attacking then it wont dissapear, damn thats good!!!. Have you guys seen any other Dizzy changes on the videos that have been released on her? also, what do you think her new possibilities are? Is loosing 5K -> 5H and 5H 2D gatlings a big hit on her or can she make up for it? Plz let me know wut u guys think. EDIT: Ok here is what i think about her loosing gatling 5K -> 5H... STUPID, just got done watching some of the new Dizzy videos out there, and it is amazing the difference it makes in Dizzy's game not having that anymore, yes, she now has 5K -> ©S gatling, and 2K -> ©S gatling, but man u gotta be really close for that, as u dont want to risk a whiffed (f)S. I saw Dizzy getting interrupted out of 5K 5H so often it got annoying, and a lot of the times in which the Dizzy player tried to get close enough for 5K ©S to come out, hed just eat a poke to the face... man watching those matches was frustrating . On a lesser note, I believe you are right, almost all tier attempts have placed Eddie and HOS top tier, and from there it changes a lot, heres hoping Dizzy makes it B+ or A tier.

[Nehle]

Okay, so, looking at the changes, you can sort of put together a picture of how they want Dizzy to play. No more long distance gatlings. I.e. no combos from random long pokes knockdown to immediate corner pressure Unpredictable fish Better bubbles The image I'm getting from this is that they want to foxus even more on Dizzys nasty fish/bubble mixup pressure, while allowing her to zone and run away a little more safely. I think what we're going to see is a lot of Dizzys jumping the fuck away, keeping opponents away with J2S and zoning the with FB bub until she can get a random knockdown to begin rape mixups. She will have to be a lot more careful and avoid risky shit because of less health. Does anyone know if fish will disappear if she tries a throw but the opponent throwbreaks?

[Sundown]

About your last question, i cant be certain but i assume it doesnt, the way i see it the fish dissapears the moment you start the game registers a throw, and in a throw break situation the game IS registering the throw, thus the fish would dissapear, and THEN it registers the throw break (obviously that being like super fast but yeah u get the point). Now, by what i have seen i think j.P still is a very viable jump-in move, so j.P j.P j.H land is still a very good way to get in once you manage to make ur opponent block a fish, and if u land close enough you can go (on either block or hit) for 2K, ©S follow up or 5K, ©S follow up. This is because both of them are now gatlings and thus, cant be interrupted. Of course if the j.P or j.H hit we can still combo into w/e we want. Also, ive seen in the videos people using jumpin j.2S, j.H land, so im guessing the addition of j.2S is welcomed to our arsenal By the way, anyone knows if 2K, 2H still gatlings? Also, i saw Chun_Li1 post about 5K, 2H and 5K, 2D becoming the standard mid/long range gatling, is that true? EDIT: Confirmed, 5K gatlings into 2D 5K gatlings into ©S 2K gatlings into ©S

[chun_li1]

About your last question, i cant be certain but i assume it doesnt, the way i see it the fish dissapears the moment you start the game registers a throw, and in a throw break situation the game IS registering the throw, thus the fish would dissapear, and THEN it registers the throw break (obviously that being like super fast but yeah u get the point).

Now, by what i have seen i think j.P still is a very viable jump-in move, so j.P j.P j.H land is still a very good way to get in once you manage to make ur opponent block a fish, and if u land close enough you can go (on either block or hit) for 2K, ©S follow up or 5K, ©S follow up. This is because both of them are now gatlings and thus, cant be interrupted. Of course if the j.P or j.H hit we can still combo into w/e we want.

Also, ive seen in the videos people using jumpin j.2S, j.H land, so im guessing the addition of j.2S is welcomed to our arsenal

By the way, anyone knows if 2K, 2H still gatlings?

Also, i saw Chun_Li1 post about 5K, 2H and 5K, 2D becoming the standard mid/long range gatling, is that true?

no, the new air 2S is super sexy. no more whiffed IAD P because opponent is too small, or back dashes. And I hope it has cross up properties and a better hit box down then jump HS.

Fact is, Dizzy sucks in the Air, Air to Ground.

I´m thinking along the lines like Venom (or others like Sol, Ky) IAD S, HS or Sols IAD S, HS/D in high/Low okis.

Btw, I think I did see 5K, 5HS gatling in that very first AC vid vs. HOS (or was it Zappa?).

PS. Crap, I should be following more AC news. Instead I´m all PSU online play atm. :bad:

[Sundown]

Yeah man, youre probably right, also i tried to watch the videos more carefully and, while confirming what i knew about 2K, ©S and 5K, ©S, i also saw the 5H, 2D gatling u were talking about, so you were right. I have been watching her matches vs HOS and Zappa but i cant find that 5K, 5H gatling, maybe im just missing it. Also i think i saw bridget interrupt dizzy from 5H, 5H in one of the newest Dizzy videos BUT i think it was becasue the dizzy player took a hella long time to do the 5H instead of just doing it like ud normally do a gatling, so yeah i still have no clue on weather 5K, 5H is still in or not, ne help would be appreciated.

[chun_li1]

Yeah man, youre probably right, also i tried to watch the videos more carefully and, while confirming what i knew about 2K, ©S and 5K, ©S, i also saw the 5H, 2D gatling u were talking about, so you were right.

I have been watching her matches vs HOS and Zappa but i cant find that 5K, 5H gatling, maybe im just missing it. Also i think i saw bridget interrupt dizzy from 5H, 5H in one of the newest Dizzy videos BUT i think it was becasue the dizzy player took a hella long time to do the 5H instead of just doing it like ud normally do a gatling, so yeah i still have no clue on weather 5K, 5H is still in or not, ne help would be appreciated.

In the very first AC vid vs. Zappa, at 1:10, its there. Well it was counter hit, so maybe its a non comboable gatling on nomal hit like 2P, 5H.

But I think its still there.

Edit : Its there, 5K, 5H. But I saw something else really sexy in those filebank matches. 5H into 2H!!! (gatling was 5k, close S, 5H, 2H). OMG, rocksor! :drool:

Getting 1 step closer back to #R BnB combo Damage.

ROFL, omg. 6P is a KD/float move like Sols 6P. And 6HS combos after it! Saw 5K, 6P, 6HS, jc ...

Holy Gatlings, wth?! :blink:

[chun_li1]

Random note : Some of her additional/new voice samples are too cool. My favorite : When she does Necro Grab Super > "Get away!"

[Sundown]

Heh, lmao it looks like they really want us to play a different kind of game than before, just like Nehle says... They removed our most useful long range gatlings, although thank god they left 5K 5H as you said. But now they give us those new close range gatlings like 5K ©S and 2K ©S. AND HOLY SHIT!!! 5H 2H!!! w000t, i cant believe i friggin missed that, could u tell me in what video u saw that one please??? You mean the new filebank vids the ones where its dizzy vs Ky and vs robo ky and those? Wow wow, gettin excited again

[Harem]

Yeah, they show the 5K, 5H in the new Dizzy vs. Ky too.

[Sundown]

OMG you guys are right im so stupid!!!. In the first Dizzy vs Ky video from filebank, at the 1:22 mark we see the gatling Chun_Li1 was talking about, it is 5K, ©S, 5H, 2H just as he said. Also, in that same new pack of Dizzy vs Ky videos, we also get to see the 2K, ©S gatling i was telling u guys about so both of them are in there. Finally, YES THERE STILL IS 5K 5H they didnt took it out!!!!! YAY!!!, you can see it in the Dizzy v Zappa video as Chun mentions, and also in the Ky matches, ZOMG yay!!! . Im dying to see a high level Dizzy player in Japan show us what this girl can really do in AC ^_^

[Starfire]

ROFL, omg. 6P is a KD/float move like Sols 6P. And 6HS combos after it! Saw 5K, 6P, 6HS, jc ...

Since 6H combos, I wonder if 421S does too. Mixup into 6P into airspike would be kinda nice for damage potential.

[quartercirclebk]

6P finally useful? Phew. I was a little nervous when I heard about the 5H>2D being gone, but damn, it looks like there's some suitable replacements. I can rest a little easier now.

[Sundown]

Since 6H combos, I wonder if 421S does too. Mixup into 6P into airspike would be kinda nice for damage potential.

Were you talking about 421S AFTER 6H connects or before?, i dont think 421S could combo after 6P since it doesnt float them high enough, but im figuring after 6H something like that could work out i dont know, guess well have to wait and see how they use it.

[chun_li1]

Hmmm, I´m a little worried about the HS beam fish. It moves weird. And seems to slightly take longer to be active. Not a good thing. If the delay is only by a couple of frames, people can start jumping out or block the beam midair, once they get up. I see my standard oki after 2HS, throw w/ the beam in jeopardy. Hope thats not the case ...

[Starfire]

Were you talking about 421S AFTER 6H connects or before?, i dont think 421S could combo after 6P since it doesnt float them high enough, but im figuring after 6H something like that could work out i dont know, guess well have to wait and see how they use it.

Before, since 6H's hitstun isn't enough for 421S to combo. To me it looks like it just might work if done close enough and/or with dash momentum and if the 6P has enough untechable frames, like Sol's 6P has. According to the Slash frame data, 421S's impact is only 22 frames, which doesn't seem like that much of a stretch from the 18 frames of 6H.

As I'm sure everyone already knows, 421S does hit surprisingly low (low enough to hit a standing Bridget, IIRC) when you're next to the opponent, and it just might hit wallbounce height, at least on some big characters.

[Sundown]

Hmmm, I´m a little worried about the HS beam fish. It moves weird. And seems to slightly take longer to be active.

Not a good thing. If the delay is only by a couple of frames, people can start jumping out or block the beam midair, once they get up.

I see my standard oki after 2HS, throw w/ the beam in jeopardy.

Hope thats not the case ...

I also noticed that, to me it looked like the HS fish would travel forward more before the laser came out, quita few times i saw Dizzy get a 2H knockdown, or a throw, and do HS fish exactly from where she was standing (no dashing or nething) and the laser would come out like ontop of the opponent and sometimes even behind the opponent... i hope thats not the case too because i saw many OKIs from the Dizzy player gettin fuked because his fish was going forward way too much before activation.

EDIT: I think theres a way around this "problem" (we aitn even sure if it is or not lol), i think i saw the Dizzy player do bite fish on his opponents wakeup (which is fast enough to do the first bite on meaty) and then switched the fish to laser.

Basically what he did was 2H (knockdown) -> bite fish (meaty) -> laser fish (after 1st bite), i think that could solve the problem of the laser's activation and help us keep it in our oki arsenal. What do u guys think?

[@$$@$$!N]

I think what your saying would work sundown from what I have seen in videos, but I need to download some more since before I was doing that on a crappy DSL connection that took way too long(hey sundown, finally got my login to work). With that said, you guys know if in 421S is still chargeable like Slash(and if we could someway confirm that move change to 236K cuz that would make my life a lot easier)? If is it, I think I can see a lot of mixup opportunities.

[Sundown]

421S is still holdable just like it was in Slash, you can see in a lot of her new videos the Dizzy players holding the spike for a while to get them into mixups. About the input changing to 236K i have no clue if it was changed or not, ne1 knows about that?

[Kbalch]

Finally watched some of the new vids. some quick things i noticed that other people may have mentioned. -Laser fish delay and forward movement seriously fucks up a lot of her setups off knockdown. I have seen people using p fish -> Hs fish. Not sure how this conversion works though so will have to watch more and try to see if you can get it consistent. It only seems to be decent from very far away. For up close I have seen Hs fish, Dash in attack (while they block attack) --> Laser Fish shoots. This keeps they locked down so you can continue to Rush down. These setups seem alright but it is still a step down from what she could do before. -Laser fish unblockables are still there but the added delay may give them a few more frames to block. -I havent seen any jpjpjhs. Does this no longer chain? They almost always opt for jpj2sjhs, or straight j2sjhs. I dont know if the dizzy players are being scrubby or if jpjhs isnt a legit combo anymore. When I saw person try this they got knocked out of the combo!!!! need to watch more to confirm. -Homing bubble allows for safe falls from very high on screen. EX: after super jumping if they are waiting below to rape you, throw out homing bubble. It falls straight faster than you do and can pop on the way down to be completely safe. This is actually seems really nice for running away which it looks like we will be doing a lot of. -people seem to be opting for j2s even when EXTREMELLY close in the air coming from above, which used to be when you would bust out a jk. since J2s can chain better it might be essentially a replacement for jk in that situation???? Or are those dizzys just being scrubby about that???? -S fish takes three days to activate and moves forward like a quarter to a half the screen before firing. Seems horrible for zoning people out of the sky because if you throw it on knockdown they will have enough time to wakeup IAD at you before the fish fires or it will fire in behind them. This renders this move pretty useless to me but maybe im being too harsh. -Throw 2k 5S -> icespike against ky seems to be techable now. -New j2s chains into 2p -> ETC... WTF??? Didnt hear it say counter so seems to be a legit combo. -Her fire super still trades with everything and her catch super can still be stopped by grabs and attacks. I was hoping they made these better but oh well. Will be interesting to see how things progress.

[Sundown]

I am very dissapointed at the HS fish change, it is a severe problem chun and i mentioned before, and as u say it might fuk up the setups BAD. The worst thing to me is how much the fish travels forward before activating, it is so amn much that most of the time it will activate just on top of them or, in a worse scenario, itll activate behind them. Im not sure wtf was sysarc thinking when they did that, neither i realize on how that change could effectively help Dizzy. I also havent seen j.p j.p j.h being used as much, i think i did see it several times (the times i saw it it worked, didnt see the dizzy player being knocked out of it), but they are definetly using j.2S, j.H way more instead of j.P j.P j.H... lets c how that works out, chun_li1 says j.2S is a great move now and it has awesome hitbox so maybe thats the reason, and not because j.p j.H suks now or nething... Still, i can accept everything but the HS fish, it REALLY LOOKS like they fuked up one of the few things that made Dizzy SCARY on oki, if we cant oki like that nemore... they removed something that MADE Dizzy, her fish made her omg...

[Kbalch]

Unless they changed the timing on K fish, you can still do Oki off knockdown with that. You have to release it right around when they hit the ground and if you get the timing right it will bite the instant they get up. I used to practice this and hit it 100% so it is very doable. A little less coverage than HS fish, but it will still help lockdown people on wakeup. I used to do this in #R i think and it was better than b/c even if you got hit somehow and screwed up the timing, fish would still bite them and you could get back up. With the changes of the fish back to #R style fish (dont vanish on hit) this might be a less effective but viable lockdown. Can do attacks ground based or TK bubble IAD jp j2s jhs -> combos etc... This is a workable Oki until the japanese find something better.

[Sundown]

Kbalch, youre right. That eases me up a little, as i guess thats pretty good. Also, what do you think of P fish on knockdown? I think by doing the P fish on knockdown, we are adding up the tick throw between bites threat, that doesnt exist with the laser fish. By doing P fish we have several options, like dashing in close and do 5k, ©S or 2K, ©S gatlings, or doing IAD and either the j.P, j.H usual, or the new IAD j.2S, j.H string, and we also have the tick throw between bites. Kbalch, do you think it is possible to do P fish on knockdown, and switch to HS laser fish after 1st bite? That way wed get the "non mofo-like advancing yes meaty-hitting fish", and then switch to HS for more cover, wut u think? Also, im wondering if that could work with K fish too, and switch to laser just before it dissapears after the lock down bite.