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Bluewindz

AC Jam Strategy/Play Style Discussion

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Disclaimer Updated: I suck period. I am no longer the weakest player in my scene in Washington. I made this thread because there was not a thread on this. Please be aware that anything you post here can be used against you because your opponents (smart ones) will be reading this. With that said. Let us begin with our discussion of play style/strategy.

Also what makes Jam good is the players. The strength of Jam is solely dependent on the player. Otherwise, Jam has no: projectiles, pets, yo-yo, super long range attacks, super defensive modifier, dolphin loop, VV, Pot Buster, drill, traps, homing missiles, Free Willy, Raoh, ghosts, etc.

To Charge or Not to Charge, That is the Question

So you knocked your opponent down....

This really is a question about whether or not you want to do one of three things.

1. Continue to pressure.

2. Going for a Mix-Up.

3. Charge one of your three cards.

Basically breaks down to two things:

1. Continue your offense.

2. Stop for now and charge a card in preparation for a bigger offensive or for defensive purposes.

In order to best decide which you want to go with, consider the following:

1. How skilled is your opponent at execution?

-If your opponent is skilled at execution, then you are leaning towards charging a card.

2. How skilled are you at execution?

-If you are unskilled at execution, then you are leaning towards charging a card.

3. Do they have a dragon punch of some kind that they can do as a reversal?

-If they do, then you are leaning towards charging a card.

**Note: If you decide to continue the offensive, you have the option of baiting the

attack and punishing the whiffed attack or just charge on ahead.

What you must consider is:

1. How often does your opponent use his dragon punch attack?

-The more often, the more likely he will attempt his dragon punch attack. Other wise he

will most like just block on wake-up.

2. How often does he hit you with his dragon punch?

-The more often he hits you with his dragon punch, psychologically speaking, his behavior

is further reinforced and thus he will more likely continue to dragon punch you. So if he

spams it all day long and he connects with he, he will more than likely spam it again on

wake-up.

3. Have you baited him before?

4. What type of player is your opponent and how much life does he have?

-This is sort of hard, but if you can identify your opponent's play style, basically his

choice of moves like risky moves versus safe moves and how many times he uses risky

moves in comparison to safe moves, then you can sort of noobishly say he is a safe or

aggressive player. But too bad that isn't good enough, not in Guilty Gear. In Guilty Gear,

if you haven't noticed, there's this thing called "Burst". This is basically a free "get out of

deep shit" card with a double edge. Assume your opponent will always time their Burst

perfectly. So to get a good read, you have to observe your opponent's play style with

and without burst. Will he trade his life bar for your life bar? Etc. More on this if I get a

Personal Message about it.

4. Are you going to reach your opponent before he wakes up?

5. How much more damage do you need to do before your opponent is defeated?

-You have to keep in mind that as his life bar gets closer to 0, you have to do a little bit

more damage than normal to finish them off.

6. How hard is it to get hits on your opponent?

-If your opponent is very hard to hit or has a tough defense, I would lean towards

charging a card unless your mix-up will continue to give you opportunities to kill him.

7. Do you think you can out play your opponent and break his guard?

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-reorganizing. (Posted this in case people needed a reference, but not finished reorganizing). The Mix-Up/Cross-Up Game For this strategy, we will be looking at the block string, 5c.S, 5f.S, jump cancel into j.HS, land. This is a pretty basic block string. At any point that you do not instant air dash low enough to execute the j.HS, your string, your pressure, your chance at hitting them end there. I will list the moves that will lead into big combos before going into the mix-ups/cross-ups. If for some reason 5c.S hits, that's close Slash, you do 5HS (3 hits) into your whatever ground combo. If you hit them with 5f.S, most of the time, you are pretty far away to go for the normal ground combo, if you were to go for it, you would have to input 2S into 5HS, but most of the time, it would not connect. So one route you can go is after 5f.S, you go 2S, 2D to keep it simple. From 2D, if you have a charged ryuujin, you can 236S-K, into 236K (charged) into wall combo. Or another option from 5f.S is just TK ryuujin, (2369K). Mix-Ups Again, the point of mix-ups is to mix them up. Your opponent can only guess, her stuff is way too fast for most people to react to. So again, plan ahead and anticipate because her stuff is also too fast for most of you to react upon. If you are playing against Jam, reading this will not help you. It's a guessing game unless you have super Asian like reflexes and concentration. 5HS This is usually started from a blocked 6P. 5HS (1 blocked hit): 5HS (2 blocked hits): 5HS (3 blocked hits): Roman Cancel Ryuujin RC Ryuujin (blocked): ->j.S (hits) j.cancel, j.S, j.D/j.HS, 214K, dash, 2S/5K/5S/2P/2K, 2HS, 6HS, HS wall loop. ->j.S (blocked), land throw. ->j.S (blocked), j.HS, 5K (hits), 5HS (3 hits), into whatever combo. --------------------, 5K (blocked), D (hits do dust combo, blocked end of string). ---------------------------------, 2S, 2D, IAD <insert favorite air attack>. ---------------------------------, 5S, IAD <insert favorite air attack>. ->land 5K (hits), 5HS (3 hits), into whatever combo. ------ 5K (blocked), D. ->land D. ->land throw. ->j.S, 5K, 5S, IAD <insert favorite air attack>. ->j.HS (blocked), Choujin, j.HS. ->Air Dash Choujin Special, j.S/j.HS/D/5K. ->cross up Gekirin/j.HS. Roman Cancel Houeikyaku RC Houeikyaku (blocked): ->Air Dash, j.S, j.HS, RC Houeikyaku, 5K ->drop down, 5K (blocked), Dust -------------------------, 5S, 2S, 2D, IAD -----------------------------,5D (note: 5D looks like 5f.S that comes after 5c.S) -------------5K (hit), 5S, 5HS, 236S-D. (note: sometimes you are too far from your opponent, so just do 2S into 2D for a knockdown. RC Houeikyaku (1 hit): ->6P, 5HS, HS, combo. Force Roman Cancel Choujin From Ground: From 2HS: From 5HS: Force Roman Cancel 2 Dust 2D (hits): 2D (blocked): 2D into IAD mixup. Contributed from 1muvwndr From there you can: 1. 623K for an instant overhead (into combo on some chars), 2. fly a little more for a j.HS crossup, 3. go for gekirin (crossup or not, depends on how far were you when cancelled 2D into IAD), 4. expect that the opponent will stand up to avoid crossups and do: a) j.K, j.S, j.HS to build up guard meter and possibly break his defence b) j.HS into choujin or j.2K 5. just bait an AA and FD in the air (like Sol's VV or HOS's SV). Straight from 1muvwndr (until I do the final reedit): Side Note: If you land a 2D when you still got momentum from dashing you can cancel it into 623K. Works on every char and if you have a charged ryuujin you can go for it. Thank you for confirming it 1muvwndr. Wall combo: After a charged ryuujin wall splat the best option is still 6HS HS since anything else can put the opponent out of the corner. I had a very hard time with this until I found this out. Plus, it has the highest dmg. Strategy/Play Style: Noobing it Up! Description: This really isn't anything noob, but whatever...I'm having fun with this post. This is a simplistic style, nothing fancy or flashy. Requirements to use: Ability to instant air dash, good control of spacing and frcs. Moves that will never be used outside of combos: 3-kicks, choujin, 236S into anything. Move of Choice: Here, you will have to decide what to kill your opponent with, I give you either the dust combo, throw or pressure string. The Attack Patterns If you choose to attack from the air: You just air dash and FD in the air all the way until you land next to them. Your Options: 1. You throw them. 2. You throw out 6HS to counter their throw. 3. You 2S. 4. You 5S. If you picked #1, if your timing is perfect, you will either throw them or both throw and nothing happens, if nothing happens, then the game is reset. If you succeed in throwing them, you can either FRC the throw into wall combo, I believe it's FRC->5S, 2HS (1 or 2 hits), 6HS, HS follow up. If you as next to the wall, you have no time or little time, you can try 5K or 2K into 2HS or 5K or 2K into 2S into 2HS. If you have tension, RC after the HS follow up and dash in for the normal wall combo. If you decided not to FRC the throw, then jump up, the timing is strict, and you can either do Dust into flame kick or Jumping S into whatever, or whatever air throw combo you want. If you picked #2, three things will happen, worse case scenario, they instant blocked it or slash backed your move and punished you. In this case, depending on the move speed, if you see the instant block flash or SB flash, you can do the follow up HS and that will push them away from you, or you get punished... either way, that is your only recourse assuming they are good. The second thing that will happen is that they just normal block it, then you have +5 frames of advantage. Fastest move in GG: AC is 3 frames, so gives you +8 frames total! Jam does not have an 8 frame move but she has 7 frame moves, 6 frame moves, 5 frame moves, 4 frame moves and 3 frame moves. The discussion from this point on requires another post. Lets move on to the third thing that will happen. Your HS hits! If you are noob, just do the HS follow up. So it's a knock down, you can either charge from there, but you are noobing it up so you reset the game and charge in. If you want to be a rock star, after HS, 6P (1 hit), 5HS (3 hits), (now if you have tension, do 236S-D into wall combo), if not, do 6HS, into 6P (1 hit), 5HS (3 hits) At this point, at your second repetition, check your tension and their guard bar, you should have built up enough tension to do a force break, but up to you to decide if it's worth it or not. Since you started the combo out with a 6HS and you landed next to them, it is possible to do 3 repetitions of the ground combo into knock down. Game resets. If you picked #3, the startup for 2S is 6 frames, I believe a throw startup is 3 frames, so a throw will beat you out, but almost any other move, you will most likely get a counter hit. If they block, both parties will have 0 frames, which you can then follow up with a fast move that will give you frame advantage, for example 2P. 2P will give you +4 frames. You can then follow up with 5S into block string. If 2S connects, you will either see a stagger which is a counter hit or not, but if they stagger away, rush in and combo them. If no stagger and it connects, you can 5HS into your normal ground combo. If you picked #4, again, either far slash or close slash will come out, both have 6 frames start up so risk of throw applies, close slash give you -6 frames, far slash give you -1 frame, both are jump cancel-able, then you cancel it into your normal block string. The Mix-Up from the air: So you normally rush in and FD towards them, although it's risky, and they could potentially air throw you, you can mix it up by throwing an occasional jumping HS. If it hits them, and you hit them with the jumping HS low enough to the ground, you can combo them with 6P (1 hit), 5HS (3 hits) etc. If they block it, and you executed it low enough, they should still have a little bit of block stun giving you the initiative. If they instant blocked it and you saw the flash, then prepare to throw or get out of a throw. If they normal block it, you have the option of doing a Choujin (236P) and you are on their opposite side. Of course, there is always a risk of them being able to air throw you. But if you manage to get to their opposite side, you can go for either a jumping S or jumping HS while close to them. The jumping S, if they did not switch over to the other side, will launch them in the air and you can either combo them with jumping HS into 3 kicks or cancel out of jumping S into another jumping S into whatever air combo. If you have robot fingers, it is possible to do j.S->j.HS after you get to the other side of the character with Choujin just so you have a back up in case you do not launch. If you get them with j.HS, then land and 6P into ground combo. If you chose to attack from the ground: You have to rush in and instantly stop with FD. Do that a lot to confuse and bait people. Your Options: 1. Spam 236S-S and build meter while hoping for a counter hit. 2. Run back and forth while instantly stopping and when your intuition or whatever gut tells you to, you throw out a max ranged 2S. 3. You run up and throw. If you chose #1, on block, you get +1 frames of advantage, but you will be spamming this at max range so that does not really matter. If they block, re-space and start spamming again. If you hit them, you will quickly have to judge what you have to do for the follow up. If you counter hit them, and they bounce off the wall, do a 236S-HS, if no wall bounce, then you will have you run up and try for a 2HS or try 236S-HS works too. If you hit them with the 236S-HS, they should bounce off the wall and then you should be close enough to a wall to wall combo them, so depending on distance and where you are, use your best judgment to stick them on the wall. If you chose #2, if they block, you can follow up with 2D, 5D, 5S into block string or whatever. If it hits, ground combo. If you chose #3, it's the same as above #1. Strategy/Play Style: Counter Hunter! Description: This is Jam getting straight down to business. This style is all about maximizing damage opportunities while being safe. You are basically baiting and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake or throw out something you can punish. You do not rush your opponent down. You wait patiently for them to come towards you. Requirements to use: God like ability to instant air dash upon seeing an opening, god like control of spacing and instant FD breaking on the ground and FD usage in the air. Ability to judge where your attack needs to be when your opponent is running towards you and you see an opening. Strategy: You are basically playing very defensive. Depending on your opponent, you need to stay outside of their reach measured by 1 second. Or depending on how good your reaction is. During the stalemate and the baiting, your goal is to build up your meter to at least 25% tension and to get a charged ryuujin. If you have more than 25% tension, say 75%, you can add mix-ups to your game. But no pressure/block strings with this play style. Moves that kill Long Range: 236S-S, IAD 214K at max range, so you will be aiming to hit your opponent with the outer edges of 214K. Long Range Combos: 236S-S (counter hit wall bounce!): You are totally on the opposite side of the wall: 236S-S (counter hit wall bounce!), 236S-HS, 236S-D, <insert max damage wall combo here> You are around the center of the battlefield or close to the wall: 236S-S (counter hit wall bounce!), 236S-D, <insert max damage wall combo here> You are totally on the opposite side of the wall: IAD 214K (counter hit), 236S-D, charged ryuujin, <insert max damage wall combo here>. IAD 214K (counter hit), 236S-HS (you can attempt this if no charge card), (236S-S) or (dash, 2HS, 6HS, HS) or (check your tension, 236S-D), <insert max damage wall combo here>. You are around the center of the battlefield or close to the wall: IAD 214K (counter hit), 236S-D, <insert max damage wall combo here>. IAD 214K (counter hit), (2HS, 6HS, HS) or (6HS, HS), <insert max damage wall combo here>. Mid Range: 2D, 5S (far). 2D (counter hit knockdown), charge. 2D (counter hit knockdown), 236S-K, 236K (card), <insert max damage wall combo here>. 5S (hit confirmed), 2369K, 236K (card), <insert max damage wall combo here>. Close Range: 2P, 2S. 2S (counter hit stagger), dash in, <insert max damage ground combo here>. Note: do not go for a knock down right away, do the maximum number of repetitions before knock down. 2P (hit), 5S, <insert max damage ground combo here>. The Attack Patterns You have 3. Tension Builder/Spammer: You spam 236S-S safely away from your opponent by immediately pressing S after 236S. Mix this in with 2S and mix up the distance of your 236S-S. Your goal is to build tension and maybe score a lucky counter hit. If you are feeling brave, you can try to sneak in a charge. Also air dash above your opponent to the other side of the screen. Intentionally air dash over your opponent continuously will build your tension. Anything that increases your tension pulse is good for you. Counter Hunter: Your attack pattern switches from IAD 236K, 236S-S, and 2D. Ideally you would have a charged ryuujin ready for use. When you do an IAD 236K, you are aiming at the space in front of you and at the very front edge of your opponent, not in the middle of the opponent and you are not doing a cross-up. If the opponent runs forward, there's a chance that he will get counter hit. Same with 236S-S, max range. With 2D, you run up and do a 2D at max range. Any one of those 3 moves hits should lead to a big combo. Jail Bait: You would be baiting with FD breaking hoping for a whiff or choujin tricks up in the air. If they are in the middle, super jump over them to the opposite side. Spam 2P and 2S. They should be moving, if not, they you gain a lead in tension and should go into mix-ups. If they are moving, there is a chance you can counter hit them. Switch between Counter Hunter and Jail Bait. Extension: Strategy/Play Style: Jail Baiter Strategy: You can be a baiting specialist. Specializing in baiting people to do stupid stuff. Jail Baiter Attack Patterns: !Under Construction! Taking a break. -Reserved. Under Construction. note: Will finish later. -Reserved. The Wall Combo The success rate of your wall combo depends on your ability to judge the situation and keep in mind these factors. 1. Distance you are currently at. 2. Height of the victim that is stuck on the wall. 3. The current hit count thus impacting fall rate and recovery rate. 4. Weight of the opponent or fall speed. 5. Do you have a quarter of the tension bar. 6. The timing of the execution of each move! 7. Is the opponent at the proper height? Too high? Too low? 8. Is there any lag on the TV. Additional things to consider 1. Are you going for easy wall combo or max damage? 2. Do you want to get a card after the wall combo? 3. Do I want to end my wall combo with a mix-up? When you do a wall combo, your timing for each move is supremely important because if you mess up, your opponent can tech out of your wall combo or you may not reach the maximum number of repetitions thus loosing out on damage. For example: Ky is on the corner crouching. You just hit him with a standing Gekirin and he is on fire. Can you combo him? Answer is yes. You can take away half his bar or more depending on your tension. For no Tension. 214K, 5K, 2HS (1 hit), HS, dash, 5K, 2HS (1 hit), HS, dash, 5K, 2HS (1 hit/2 hits), HS. At each of those moves, each 5K, each 2HS, the delay of HS follow up can mess up your wall combo and Ky would be able to tech out or you would not be able to make it to the next repetition. Now try the same combo on Dizzy and it is more apparent. On Dizzy, it is harder to use 5K for the initial repetition, I recommend using 2P. After that, the execution of the HS follow up needs to a couple of frames before the last possible moment for the first repetition, but you can get 3 repetitions in. The 3 Way you will get a Wall Combo. 1. HS follow up to 5HS. 2. Force Break Hyappo Shinshou aka Puff Ball. 3. Ryuujin (Charged). The Distance Next to the Wall HS follow up to 5HS You have to know the weight of the character, if the character falls slow enough, you can get away with a dash 5K or 2K into 2HS or even do 5K/2K into 2S into 2HS. The timing has to be dead on. If they fall fast, you have to Roman Cancel your HS follow up after it hits and rush in to wall combo. Note: Will finish later. reserved Getting In!!! It is all pointless if you cannot get in range to attack your opponent. Requirements 1. Know the max range of all the poking moves and being able to execute at max range. 2. Good control of Instant Air Dashing and FD Breaking on the ground. 3. Know the range of your throw and when you can execute after stopping from a dash. Methods 1. By Air 2. By Land By Air Jam is vulnerable while she is in the air. Note: will finish later. Reserved. Your 3 Seconds to Shine During the match, at least once, you are going to be attacking and your opponent will be blocking. There is your chance to shine, your chance to break their guard. You will have rounds where you will not lay a finger on your opponent, but hopefully it is not like that for every round. In some matches, you are only given once chance, in this section, lets make that chance the only chance you will need. This section is on..... Guard Breaking and Frame Traps There are only 4 ways that you can land a hit and 3 ways to break their guard: 1. They attack and you counter hit them with a normal move obviously. They probably for one reason or another fell into your "frame trap" or they thought they saw an opening to counter attack. 2. You throw. 3. You do a low attack when they are blocking high. 4. You do a high attack when they are blocking low. Note:finish later Frame Trapping Your Moves:Valid unless they instant block or Slash back. These are your openers. P +3 Frames K +1 Frame H +1 Frame 6P +2 Frames 6H +5 Frames 2P +4 Frames 236S-S +1 Frame 236S-H +4 Frame 236S-H (cross-up) +1 Frame Now lets look at 5K. note: will finish later. In order to effectively break your opponent's guard, you will need to know which moves Cancel into what, or basically a Gatling chart.

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-reorganizing -reorganizing Tager 3C>22BC>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>2369C 7046 corner 3C>22BC>22BC>6C>5D>6B>236D>6C>5D>5B>6B>5C>236D 5376 Jin 3C>22BC>22C>6C>22C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 19 hits 6500+ CH 5C>5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>214A>2B>6C>2369C 5286 V-13 3C>22C>6C>22C>22C>6C>5D>6B>5C>6B>5C>236D 4776 6A>6C>BC>6C>BC>6C>BC>6C>2D>28D>jB>jB>jC>236C 3574 Rachel 3C>22BC>22BC>6C>22B>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 20 hits 5700+ corner 3C>22BC>22BC>22BC>22BC>22BC>6C>5D>5B>6B>5C>236D 7648 Litchi 3C>22BC>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>jB>jB>jC>236C 4986 Combo Damage Starter 6A into 6C into 5D>6B>5C>6B>5C>236D 1 x 6C 3077 2 x 6C 3197 3 x 6C 3304 4 x 6C 3398 5 x 6C 3482 120, 107, 94, 84 Jin Combo 5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>>214A>2B>6C>jC>236C 4461 damage CH 5C>5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>>214A>2B>6C>2369C 5201 damage CH 2C is 5086 5A into 6A BNB 1 rep of 6C - 2657 2 reps - 2756 3 reps - 2800ish 4 reps - 2926 Hakumen 3C>22bc>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 21 hit 6300 damage

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of course you don´t freestyle your gameplan, i personally freestyle a lot of combos when i play casuals, just this weekend i had people i played against (and whom i play regularely) go "whoa, what was this combo, never saw that before!" f.e. j.Sj.Pj.S jc j.D 236P frc j.D 214K or midscreen launcher 2HS 236236HS 236K 236K(charged) wall loop and sometimes i just fucking waste my tension in one combo only to do like 20-30 points of dmg. more and get the combo count to 25+ that is my freestyle aspect of jam, and it´s incredebly fun, but it´s only recommended for casual play ...you can´t freestyle gameplay imo

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My coolest freestyle moment and 100% tension burn. Wall loop ended with FB PB, 2HS(1) 236S~236P j.HS 236236HS FRC r.6P(1) 5HS 6HS 6P(1) 5HS 6HS 5K 5S 2367K Doing the ground loop off of 236236HS FRC hurts like crazy, just fyi o_O

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Yeah, I don't think anyone freestyles w/Jam as much as their style of playing Jam. Some people are more defensive and wait for counterhits or openings, while others are more offensive and create mixups and openings. But whenever they have an opening, they do the same combos, setups, oki and such, just different ways of using these weapons.

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June 18th Update: Added 1muvwndr's contribution to the main post. Added Counter Hunter Play style. Updated a few of the sections. Working on Frame Traps and Mix-Ups at the moment. Planning on Adding Okizeme and Wake-Up as requested.

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IAD 214K combo (midscreen): IAD 214K dash in f.5S j.c j.K j.D j.214K -> -> a) end combo here and go for tech throw/AA mixup -> b) 5P j.c j.K j.D 214K (on some chars) -> c) 5P j.c j.K and air combo of choice (continuing with j.S) -> d) 236236HS into any single wall splat combo (i.e. 2HS 6HS HS) - works if you end the first part in the corner, timing is strict). I sometimes just leave them fall to the ground after 236236K for oki or charge (or both ;)).

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I just watched some Jam videos and I would say that in those videos, the Jam player would have won if he had played differently. I constantly see Jam doing the 2D instead of continuing the combo. They would have won if they would have extended their combo. Guess it's a difference in play style. I would say they are a better Jam player than me, but at certain instances, their choice of moves cost them the match. Choices like, 6HS (counter hit) into random mix-up? No!! 5K going straight into 2D?? Pack on some more damage!! Anyways, still working on stuff, any new stuff, I will update on the original posts so everything can be in one place.

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I would say they are a better Jam player than me, but at certain instances, their choice of moves cost them the match. Choices like, 6HS (counter hit) into random mix-up? No!! 5K going straight into 2D?? Pack on some more damage!!

i guess you watched some Flash's matches. I agree with you, some matches are just thrown away. CH 6HS must be 40% dmg + KD. And it's not hard to confirm from it, even non-CH 6HS is easy to see. On the other side his ability to f.S into TK Ryuujin is amazing. I think he surpasses some japs with that, I've never seen Mike or KA2 connect them so many times in one match (maybe because they ended the match earler? :eng101: ) .

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5k->2d can actualy lead to more damage with lesser hit count or for drawing a card... it doesn't realy matter imo since Jam can/mostlikely able to kill 22 of the cast with 2 full combos of her jamming and the best normal gattling from 5k is 5k,c.s,5hs,6hs,6p/6k/6s,5hs,6hs... it does around 160 point... and you still need to combo whoever u go against at least twice to kill him/her... anyway i only use that gattling if my op didn't have burst+jacking up guard gauge and counter hit/tick throw mix up

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5K, c.S, 5HS (3 hits), 236S-D, <insert wall combo>...... Jam should usually have 25% tension unless it's the beginning of the match. Then I would do as many repetitions as possible then knockdown charge. Sure Jam can kill anyone with 2 combos, but that's assuming that both times, you have tension or cards. Realistically, it is 2 max damage combos (within the constraints of tension and cards) and a mini combo because as their life bar gets closer to death, they take less damage (during a match). If it was a combo video, sure, two combos :). When most people do their combos, it is when their life bar has no defense modifiers, so it changes the less life they have. I have to use at least one force break puff ball if not two to get a 50% combo. Tension is a rare commodity. So getting two full 50% combos in a row within a match is possible, but that's like you having a full tension bar and some cards. But then, if you had that, are you really playing Jam right? 5K, 2D can lead into big damage if you have a charge ryuujin. Otherwise, I would do the ground chain upon 5K hitting, granted that you have to have super fast reflexes, but ideally, the opponent would be knocked down anyways at the ending of your ground combo and you still get a charge. Also I would like to say it really does matter when ever Jam hits an opponent, to max your damage, because you may get only one or two more opportunities for the rest of the round. Another debate, so many games, charge ryuujins are never used, because either: 1. they died before I had the chance. 2. i died. And who is to say charging ryuujin is always the correct choice? Japanese players? I am pretty sure that in certain match-ups, charging the 214K or the 623K would be better. Good debates. Check up on the main posts for new stuff :) When I'm surfing for info, it's annoying to read through the posts for info, so I'm just going to do it all on the first page while having the discussion material after the main post. What about a section on jacked up guard bar combo damage? But who's really going to let you do that? Maybe a section on block strings when your opponent is FDing..? maybe? Someone add some fuel to the fire!

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ugh... i forgot her PB :vbang:... dunno about how effective the charged Ryujin is... but iirc in any of my matchup i do ryuujin combos at least once... and about the other, gekirin charge up is still decent to get knockdown upon reversal and wall slam combos folow up, but heck how often u use kenrou as anti air?... and kenrou charge up... i don't think u can actualy follow up with anything without rc

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Charging other kicks besides ryujin is good only for combo movies. Charged gekirin would have some uses if it would come out from IAD (straight down) but that's impossible. In any case you are at a huge frame disadvantage if opponent blocks it (by my guess at least -8). I remember a match lost by Mike just because he used charged gekirin after a blocked 236S-K. And charging kenrou was good in #R and Slash (because it gave a KD) but now it's just not worth it. 22K rocks.

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I would agree that in general, charing a Ryuujin is the best, but unless you can score a 2D/5K or some sort of poke, I find that it is hard to use without half tension for the Roman Cancel. I have also seen Jam players win by using the charged Gekirin, so it goes both ways. Charged Kenroukaku , I would imagine you would use that if your opponent likes to be in the air a lot and it is something to use when your Ryuujin would not hit if they are way above you. Example would be j.S, j.S, j.HS, Kenroukaku , charged Kenroukaku . Basically, I think charging a Kenroukaku would discourage your opponents from being in the air too much.

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I might as well get another topic started (I replied to the previous topic as well). I might add this to the main section..

Renhoukyaku

Info:

632146H

1~10 invincible to strikes. Floats (untechable for 28F). Causes vacuum effect on hit or block. Hit stop 0. Opponent's inputs are frozen after the super flash until the 2nd active frame.

SD -7.

So when used on the ground, you get -7 frames and you get punished. How about when used when your opponent is in the air? Assuming they air block all of it? Now would you have the advantage? Very useful in my opinion when your opponent is in the air.

Some Creative uses:

1. Ever wondered why your throw sucks without FRC? but now your opponent is up in the air and it is hard for them to see what is going on at the bottom. What if you do Renhoukyaku as your opponent is within the outer edges. Remember the "Opponent's inputs are frozen after the super flash until the 2nd active frame."

2. Dropped Combo and they are air teching?!?!?! No problem!!! Chance!!!! Problem is what combos....

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There are times when you have to RC ryujin to combo on but it is so infrequently that it's really not an issue whether charging it or not. On the other side, I just can't see why should I charge anything other except because I want to look flashy. It's OK for casuals but for tournament play I'd avoid it like the plague. Every time charged ryujin hits you get a combo + KD, can you say so for the other 2 kicks?

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I would agree that in general, charing a Ryuujin is the best, but unless you can score a 2D/5K or some sort of poke, I find that it is hard to use without half tension for the Roman Cancel.

elaborate about the use of RC? :psyduck: ... i don't think Ryuujin was that hard to use, there's tons of frame for hit confirming whether your 5k/2d connect or not, if it's on block string ... don't use it. shouldn't be as simple as that?

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elaborate about the use of RC? :psyduck: ... i don't think Ryuujin was that hard to use, there's tons of frame for hit confirming whether your 5k/2d connect or not, if it's on block string ... don't use it. shouldn't be as simple as that?

What I mean is other than scoring a hit, outside of that, your charge Ryuujin will just sit there. There are a lot of times, that opportunity never comes up and one way of putting that to good use is to just use it in a block string, RC the ryuujin and do a mix-up of j.S or 5K.

So elaborating, it is easy to use if you connect 5k/2d or whatever, heck even 2HS, 236S-D, j.HS. But if your opponent is very good, then those opportunities do not come up very often unless you are god like in your high low throw (frc) game.

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... and when the oportunity to score big combos with charged ryuujin cames... did u still expect u want another card on your pocket? no matter how hard to connect Ryuujin, it's always good to have 1 as insurance... stupid come back is possible with her damage output in that combos and if rock solid blocking is become a problem in her rush down... why don't try baiting for counter hit? :)

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