AC Jam Strategy/Play Style Discussion

[Bluewindz]

Here's something I came across on: run up, 5k, s.f, 236P, jHS., 5K, s.f., 236P. Still working on updates. Discussion start!!

[xenophobian]

you´ll get airthrown to death ...you can´t pressure with 236P, just occasionally mix up in block strings, for pressure the old iAD j.P out of f.S or 2D still works best...but you´ll get airthrown anyways

[excelence]

agree... people can air throw on reaction v Choujin

[Bluewindz]

I agree that people can air throw on reaction, like they can instant block eddie's Mawaru, but people still get hit with that, and that's because in a match, there a lot of other things you have to watch out for and keep in mind. I am not saying that the string is good, shit I never even used the string, but I saw it used. It had a surprise factor or something that is unexpected. Following will go on main post. Full explanation will come later (whenever...I have time...which may be never LOL!!!) on main post. But discussion happens here. The following is the setup framework. Meaning at each point could be another mix-up/leads into another mix-up scenario. Theses are made in mind of ending the match, where opponent has a little bit of life left and you have some tension to burn. Full tension burn mix-ups. Setup: When you are mid striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 2D(frc after active, meaning it can trip opponent), choujin (frc), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are far away from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-D, 236SD, ryuujin (rc) Setup: When you are mid to close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 2D, 236S-K, ryuujin (rc), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very far away from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-HS (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 6HS (rc), 236S-HS (rc, crossup) Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-HS (rc, crossup), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 236S-K, ryuujin (rc), 236S-K, ryuujin (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 5D (rc), 2D (frc, hit). Depending on the filler/mix-up moves used in the setup, there might be a follow up frc since tension is being built up during the attack. Not sure, what those are yet. Work in progress. But have at it. Make your own analysis and beat me to the punch, if it's good, mind if I use it on main post? Saves me time LOL! ..I'm out of time..more later...

[1muvwndr]

Man you sure have a lot of tension & cards to burn Sorry, but IMHO all those setups aren't useful in any match other than "last casual after a night fighting casuals while drinking beer". Full tension + 2 cards? When I get them I'll ask myself what did I do wrong in this match since something MUST have gone bananas. Edit: When you RC/FRC your tension fills much slower for some time. Like Robo's running slash after 5H FRC, if it hits it gives you 20% tension instead of 60%.

[1muvwndr]

OK, my tension/card waste moment. Works on all chars exept the lightweight (May, Dizzy, Millia, Bridget, Baiken) 50% tension, K charge: throw -> sj - j.D (2 hits) j.214K rc j.HS 236K 236K - around 100 dmg - midscreen is wallstick with 1 corner loop + oki/card. in corner opponent thrown to the other side of screen (free card) or wallsticked, depends on how early you do j.HS after rc; you can do 2 wall loops on Pot without him teching 100% tension, HS charge: throw -> sj - j.D (2 hits) j.214K rc j.D (2 hits) j.214K rc j.D (1 hit) 623K 623K - around 100 dmg + oki mixup. Surprisingly, it does not work on Sol:vbang: More hits (i.e. from another charge) are useless, you will deal just 1 more point of dmg per hit (thanks to the 50% forced throw proration). 1st combo scales to 200+ dmg with wall loop if opponent has his guard bar somewhat filled (tried at +50 in practice for about 200 dmg on Sol). May find its use when you go for a tick throw after you fill his guard bar. 2nd combo is just for combo movies .

[xenophobian]

i personally think that writing down theese setups/combos is pretty useless, the moment these combos/pressure strings would be possible you can start to freestyle your pressure...the hard part about this is that you need to know what works and what doesn´t, and that only comes from massive exp. my tension waste moves are (blocked)236S~S RC -> run -> throw (blocked)2147K RC airdash on other side 623K \/ combo (blocked)charged236K RC high/low/throw mixup

[Bluewindz]

The practicality of full tension burn setups? You can say very little. Did I do a very good job of explaining the concept? No. I agree with xenophobian that you will free style a lot of your pressure. Well I'm in a time crunch, but I'll briefly explain one setup. But the scenario on when this will come up is most likely near the end of the round, both players on very little life and both playing pretty cautiously, you basically have one shot at this, so your tension builds up to max both players dance around being cautious. The moves I listed are just a guide as to where the mix-up should go, like a point of reference. So I'm going to pick the easiest one to explain. Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit). 1st Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Assuming you hit the frc and the move comes out (active), you have +13 frames to so something cool. If it hit, you just ryuujin your way to victory or whatever. If blocked, you can: 6H - Your opponent must do something 5 frames or less. Throw - most unlikely move since that would be a waste of your 13 frames. Dust - Your dust is now 11 frames, it is now very good. j.P/j.S/j.D - high options. 214K - your startup just went down to 6 frames. Continue to 2nd Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Now your opponent should be worried and constipated. (Since it's the same point of contact).. If it hit, you just ryuujin your way to victory or whatever. If blocked, you can: 6H - Your opponent must do something 5 frames or less. Throw - most unlikely move since that would be a waste of your 13 frames. Dust - Your dust is now 11 frames, it is now very good. j.P/j.S/j.D - high options. 214K - your startup just went down to 6 frames. Continue to 3rd Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Now your opponent should be Shitting his pants. You guys get the idea. Mix up within a mix up. Just that it's a stronger attack that gives the opponent more opportunities to mess up. It's not for every body. People may win before it even reaches this scenario. But it's there, but I respect people's opinion on the setups not being as useful and there is some truth to that because you should win before it reaches this point. But this is another play style I am working on. So not for everyone.

[1muvwndr]

4x2D FRC - i really don't see any use of it, sorry. Any char with DP can do it the first time he sees the FRC. Any char without DP can backdash out of harm or FD you away. I don't argue about being in + frames but you HAVE to dash in to do ANYTHING so basically you lose all your + frames if 2S FRC gets blocked. I remember seeing this once in a Koji vs. Xeno match and more than anything else it looked like showing off rather than a mixup. Am I right Xeno?

[xenophobian]

^^ it was vs. teamkoji, vs. ultima eddie, i did some stupid shit like (f.S(blocked) 2D FRC dash)x4 and wanted to tickthrow him in the end but all got blocked, i got smacked and almost lost the round >_< but yeah he was really low on health and it was basically a showoff move gone wrong lol BUT still 2D FRC is a freaking awesome weapon if you use it wisely on a side note: does anyone know how many +frames you have with f.S(blocked) 2D FRC

[excelence]

around 14 frames at most on standing block if u do the fastest possible f.s>2d(frc) link iirc

[xenophobian]

yeah, i thought so...there you have it, same effect, same startup, more range, and waaaaay easier to do than standalone 2D(hit) FRC(1frame!) ...i can´t land 1frame FRC on 2D consistantly...i never even practiced it cuz the use is too situational imo

[Xploit Neo]

What is good Jam corner oki? I've been trying different things, but nothing I do is effective. And what is the easiest way to jump install? Do I hold 9 after the move and immediately do the next move or press it?

[xenophobian]

we need a fucking corner oki thread... for jump install you do a JCable move(c.S), tap up, do another JCable move(f.S) superjump -> tadaa, jump installed superjump technique for TKryu is different, i don´t know in what direction your question is headed ok on corner oki, this comes straight from the Q&A thread: (you always do your oki after a wall loop) it´s really hard to do without tension, because it´s very strict, and the loop before needs to be the "perfect" loop, so the enemy is very low to the ground when the last 2HS hits, otherwise they can tech. so what i do is, i invest 25% tension (that you´ll always get in the loop beforehands) in a puffball, run up and do 2HS when they are low to the ground, that way the mixup becomes pretty universal... after the 2HS(1) 236s the trick is to do the 236P on the very last possible moment otherwise you´ll be to quick for the overhead options the options after the 236P are plenty, all start with airdash towards the corner: 214K - normal overhead j.D(2nd hit) - crossup overhead j.HS - crossup overhead 236P land 5K - normal low 236P land throw nothing land 5K - crossup low nothing land throw 236P/nothing also evades/punish wakeup options addition: 236S~P(cross) iAD236P land -> low/throw 236S~P(cross) iAD236P FRC j.S 236S~P(cross) 2147K are nice double crossups that can also be implemented in your mixup game with all that options (way over 10 different setups) that equally lead to different situations you have a nasty 5-way (6-way if you count wakeup punishment) guessing situation for your opponent !

[Bluewindz]

Things I would like to say at this point for Jam end game that I consider to be very useful. 2D, 236S-K, 236K (card): 2D is a move that gives Jam the longest reach. 5S(far), 2369K (TK ryuujin): The far slash has a lot of priority and it has good range. Spam that shit. j.HS (cross up): This is good, but the follow up options after it, are limited... What do people do when they hit their opponent with this cross up, I find myself usually too far from them to do anything. j.HS (as you jump towards them and attack as low to the ground as possible): This move gets me thrown more than anything. It's good if you can execute it low enough but....

[Hintalove]

For comboing off crossup jh, space your crossup better(it will make it harder to block too). You want to be as close to them as possible. Combos depend on if they're standing or not. You can either land and do 5s tk 236k > 236k or go for a sweep splitskick combo. As for non crossup jh, you don't have to do jh first. You can do jp > jh or what aver you want. Also remember you can cancel it into j2k for another overhead hit/more blockstun. Corner oki: Most jams these days are sacrificing damage in order to get oki in the corner. Mostly they will do 2 wall sticks and then run in and 2h. Except for lights its fairly easy to get the kd every time. I remember back when flash said corner oki wasn't worth pursuing lol

[1muvwndr]

Finished reorganizing?

[Bluewindz]

been super busy with work, only had time to glimpse on the threads, wait until weekend.

[Bluewindz]

It is really important to watch whether your opponent blocked normally or instant blocked the attack. I do not know how many frames it cuts the block stun down by, but that would be good to know.

[Hi-C]

Hey, I'm new and use Jam as a preference. I pretty much suck compared to a lot of others. Just a short basic noting I found. I find that the fire kick and flip kick besides Ryuujin can be useful in SOME situations. Of all people I've played, they keep expecting a Ryuujin, especially in the air. They keep blocking then punishing, especially if its Ky. The flip continues your forward momentum and can look like a basic attack or forward movement. Not guarenteeing a flashy combo, but at least it can take someone off their guard for a moment. Fire kick is a good finish if you manage a dust. Sends em to the ground, bounce back up and continue a second chain. Can also act as a surprise if you time it right against other attacks I suppose. Ryuujin someone in the air, near a wall, its a wall-stick isn't it? I think it is. You can start beating them around to after that. A question too: After fighting computers A LOT, I noticed CMP Potemkin likes FRCing a lot. But, it only takes 25% of his guage. I try it with Jam and it still takes 50%. Can someone tell the difference?

[St1ckBuG]

Hi-C, I would recommend reading the GGAC Guide found here: http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/

[1muvwndr]

FRC = blue flash, you have only a 2 frames window to do it, no need for the move to hit RC = red flash, can be done anytime during recovery after the move hits Jam's FRCs are 236P FRC, 2D FRC, 236S~HS FRC. Go to practice, turn on "display input" and when the input bar flashes blue, that's the FRC point. If you land a 214K on the opponent while he's on the ground, you can always follow up with dash in 5S j.c j.K, j.D, j.214K. From there you can go for an extended loop (follow the previous with 5P, j.c, j.K, j.D j.214K but doesn't work on all chars), techthrow or you just wait for them to get down and AA them (though you can't AA some chars).

[excelence]

Fire kick is a good finish if you manage a dust. Sends em to the ground, bounce back up and continue a second chain. Can also act as a surprise if you time it right against other attacks I suppose.

it didn't combos, my friend has better setup with Gekirin loop but still it didn't combos into anything just fucking hard to tech out

FRC = blue flash, you have only a 2 frames window to do it, no need for the move to hit

RC = red flash, can be done anytime during recovery after the move hits

Jam's FRCs are 236P FRC, 2D FRC, 236S~HS FRC. Go to practice, turn on "display input" and when the input bar flashes blue, that's the FRC point.

are u sure it's 2 frames? the 2d has 6 frame from start up and 1~2 frame frc timming on hit the hs pb has 4 frames also has frc timming on hit, ground choujin has 3 frames from start up the mid air version has it from frame 7~9, her 236236hs overdrives has it from 3~4 with 150% proration lol and throw has frc timming from frame 43~44

i barely can do any frc for her on real match, if it's 2 frame... i think i'm going to kill myself

[1muvwndr]

I'm 100% sure that FRC doesn't need a hit while RC needs it. I'm not sure about the window since it can be different from move to move but I guess Jam's FRCs are never longer then 3 frames. HS pb - if you FRC it on the 1st frame the hit doesn't come out, basically becomes a throw setup. But to hit 1st frame FRC when you want it it's another story... P.S.: forgot to mention the overdrive & throw FRC

[Bluewindz]

Zero System: I feel like naming it this because (Gundam Wing reference) the timing is exactly 0 frames and it is totally not worth using it unless you have godly control. Anything less than that will hurt you. Today, we are looking at Houeikyaku (j.2K), if executed at the lowest point possible to the ground, upon block, +8 frames. Upon hitting up, takes 3 frames before Jam is considered airborne, from that point after, each frame where 2K is not inputted, the move loses 1 frame accordingly. If done correctly, the opponent cannot block it in time. The downside is the damage is pretty bad, but the upside is that you will be able to continue the pressure if blocked, not sure if it hits (needs testing). Your air cancel-able moves: S.f, S.c, 2D, 6K. (will post gatling list later in main post along with extended analysis.) I will post the corner blocks of the setups. Setup 1: 6P, 6K, 2D or j.2K 6P, 2D 6P, 5S Setup 2: 6K, 5S, j.2K or 6P 6K, 2D, j.2K Setup 2: 5K, 5S, j.2K or 5K, 5S, 2D. 2D cancel-ables: you can cancel out of 2D with 236S-into anything if they block. Will repost main post later in the week.