[CP] News & Gameplay Discussion

[Kikirin]

Oh shit I'm actually really sorry about that if that was where all this started. I wasn't even posting my own opinion there, just something I hear thrown around by word of mouth at locals and other forums/message boards. I shouldn't have even posted it. Really really sorry.

 

Don't be. The conversation was pretty informative, and I got a better view of how higher-level players looked at things. This is infinitely better than the usual rounds of 2.0 CHANGELOG WHAR, LOKETEST WHEN, ZOMG MY CHAR IS RUINED, etc.

[NecroTheReaper]

Yeah, it wasn't really what you said as much as someone not liking the answer they gave. Just a lot of people disagreeing

[Myoro]

relius anti air and relius air to air

 

go

I leaned from that too, but we don't need to rehash old discussions that have had a satisfying resolution do we? And as much as I love to discuss all things Relius, I think we should probably stop hogging the main game-play thread, unless we need a broader opinion on something important, we should probably move things to the Rel thread.

 

You, me Necro, TD, and the occasional lovely guest are all that venture there to post things anyhow.

[TD]

Unfortunately, there is not enough juicy tidbits to occupy our restless minds in the meantime. So this thread has probably reached an impasse for the time being. I can't even say, "so how bout them 2.0 changes?" Because that shit the devs are doing is clearly still in a dream state at the moment.

So... yeah...

[ehrik]

i hope they make psr go into 4 digits for 2.0 

[Verimeloni]

You guys think every character has received guerrila-buffs to their OD DD damage? That Hazama is just ridiculous.

[Syklone]

You guys think every character has received guerrila-buffs to their OD DD damage? That Hazama is just ridiculous.

Yes. This was said to be a universal buff to everyone. We'll just have to wait and see when 2.0 comes out though.

[chzchan]

You guys think every character has received guerrila-buffs to their OD DD damage? That Hazama is just ridiculous.

 

Not everyone's is just straight damage, though. From what Kuresu said back during the loketests, Tsubaki's OD reversal super does a special animation that allows the super to be followed up with a really nicely prorating normal that can lead into a combo when normally it cannot which means it can probably lead to a maintained oki on top of a bit more damage. So maybe some OD distortions will just leave characters in a more advantageous position or give them some kind of bonus when compared to their regular counterparts.

 

I guess that is still the loketest, but I doubt they would just completely revamp the new OD distortions they already had in the loketest when 2.0 comes out.

[TD]

That sounds likely to happen, or if not, straight damage for the character. Moves like hotenjin that takes a lot of combo time for example, will just get a damage buff, while other moves like tsu sword super will get some QOL buffs. Wonder what amane will get, his supers are kind of terrible.

[chzchan]

The one where the wave of drills fly across the screen is pretty neat when combined with the fag hop so that it scales the screen. His reversal super is also pretty great too, but, just like Azrael's Scud Punishment, it already has a sort of slightly different but barely stronger OD version, mostly because of having level 3 drills already.

 

I really wonder what they're going to do with distortions that already have a special OD version, especially for characters that have OD versions for both/all of their DDs already, like Kagura or Azrael.

 

As seen in the TGS stream where they had the VA fight, Azrael's Scud Punishment now causes wallbounce instead of stagger, so maybe the OD version will have the old 1.1 stagger properties on top of better damage.

 

 

Has an air D move that has a projectile come from a 35~40 degree angle downward that launches though this is also already known. Not sure what the command is. j.D and j.2D are shown used in the combo. Launcher > j.2D > j.D > j.214D simple combo. Looks like all three gatling out of each other without a jump cancel. It can be seen again in the second combo: Grab > 6D > 2D > j.D > j.2D > jc > j.D > j.?D > j.214D. Not sure how SMP works for it, but it looks like she has three D normals to work with in the air now.

 

Her j.D and j.2D seem to come out at an angle much much smaller than Nu's current +/- 30 degree angles for each respectively. Just measured with a protractor. j.D is +10 degrees. j.2D is -10 degrees.

 

Also as some clarification for Lambda notes from the TGS earlier, I read here that the input for her new air drive attack is actually j.2D. They have angles there, but they were probably eyeballing. I actually took a protractor and did all that shit, though I could still be wrong. There is also a note that the attack that would usually be j.2D for Nu-13 is now j.6D. So Lambda has 3 jumping drives: j.D, j.6D, and j.2D.

 

j.D is the slightly upward angle, j.6D is the slightly downward angle, and j.2D is the more prominent downward angle with launching attribute.

[Ziggy_Stardust]

Woah, just got done reading that while Relius "arguement". I agree Relish pressure should be predictable and easy to block, but it isn't because of the fear factor that ignis instills in us. Which Myoron(sorry, new nickname :3), you need to kick my ass twenty two times in a row again, I still need to get that blocking down.

Anyways ODs got buffed? Anybody have a current list of OD changes? If Azrael OD gets any scarier I might just stop using burst.

[Airk]

The funny thing about the Relius argument is that most of the people are mostly in agreement and the people who are "disagreeing" are just arguing semantics.

 

Here's the thing:

 

Pressure and mixup are complimentary, and, BASICALLY add up to a single value that can be called "How easy it is to open someone up with your character" or "HEIITOSUWYC" Which is not a catchy phrase, so it doesn't get used a lot.

 

Relius has fairly 'average' 'mixup' when viewed in a vacuum - he has relatively few character specific mixup tools.  But his pressure is amazing, so his "HEIITOSUWYC" is REALLY GOOD.

Compare to a character like Ragna who has...every so slightly above average mixup in a vacuum, but completely average pressure and you get a character whose "HEIITOSUWYC" is basically average.

 

At the end of the day, how good your "pressure" is compared to your "mixup" doesn't matter for JACK, because what is important is your "HEIITOSUWYC" - because THAT is what decides whether you hit your opponent in non-flailing-about-in-neutral situation.  Also note that it is possible make characters who win mostly by doing their damage in "flailing about in neutral" situations though I think the closest that BB has in that regard is Nu and maybe Amane.  Though humorously, the "runners up" here are characters like Tsubaki and Makoto whose "HEIITOSUWYC" is so garbage that they end up getting a comparatively large amount of their damage off random hits in neutral just because it's so easy to get away from them otherwise. :P

[Synyster17]

Woah, just got done reading that while Relius "arguement". I agree Relish pressure should be predictable and easy to block, but it isn't because of the fear factor that ignis instills in us. Which Myoron(sorry, new nickname :3), you need to kick my ass twenty two times in a row again, I still need to get that blocking down.

Anyways ODs got buffed? Anybody have a current list of OD changes? If Azrael OD gets any scarier I might just stop using burst.

 

nobody has that list yet so sorry. i can't imagine anyone doing more damage off of OD thou. i think it's high enough. it would b cool thou if supers like Azr BHS and like Rag CS got more of a buff but idk if that will happen.

[Darret_Wallace]

React to the jets and the wind you scrubs

your information is not needed

[bakahyl]

nobody has that list yet so sorry. i can't imagine anyone doing more damage off of OD thou. i think it's high enough. it would b cool thou if supers like Azr BHS and like Rag CS got more of a buff but idk if that will happen.

TBH i dont think that the news was that the OD's were tweaked but there was an announcement that every distortion drive has a powered up OD version. So at best you can speculate about the DD's that didn't get a powered up version

 

Azrael's BHS and Ragna Cs already had a boosted version

[TD]

The funny thing about the Relius argument is that most of the people are mostly in agreement and the people who are "disagreeing" are just arguing semantics.

 

Here's the thing:

 

Pressure and mixup are complimentary, and, BASICALLY add up to a single value that can be called "How easy it is to open someone up with your character" or "HEIITOSUWYC" Which is not a catchy phrase, so it doesn't get used a lot.

 

Relius has fairly 'average' 'mixup' when viewed in a vacuum - he has relatively few character specific mixup tools.  But his pressure is amazing, so his "HEIITOSUWYC" is REALLY GOOD.

Compare to a character like Ragna who has...every so slightly above average mixup in a vacuum, but completely average pressure and you get a character whose "HEIITOSUWYC" is basically average.

 

At the end of the day, how good your "pressure" is compared to your "mixup" doesn't matter for JACK, because what is important is your "HEIITOSUWYC" - because THAT is what decides whether you hit your opponent in non-flailing-about-in-neutral situation.  Also note that it is possible make characters who win mostly by doing their damage in "flailing about in neutral" situations though I think the closest that BB has in that regard is Nu and maybe Amane.  Though humorously, the "runners up" here are characters like Tsubaki and Makoto whose "HEIITOSUWYC" is so garbage that they end up getting a comparatively large amount of their damage off random hits in neutral just because it's so easy to get away from them otherwise. :P

Basically.

 

please let's just dead this argument it's done. for the sake of civility let's all agree to disagree even if we all actually agree in some way and dont realize it lol. well, at least the ones who were posting valid points about the character.

 

I personallly dont feel like I have learned much, but the information posted, heated as it was, is useful stuff to other players, so there was some beneficiaries.

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah the Relius horse got beaten to death. Leave it for next time or make a separate thread about it.

[Anne]

Apparently even after all that some people didn't learn, and some didn't bother listening to me. If you have something you want to discuss, feel free to make a thread in the forum. This one is staying locked for awhile.

EDIT: New thread is up.