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Kiba

[CP] Tsubaki vs Izayoi

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Um.. I don't have much to say considering I'm not too familiar with this match up. But from my few encounters, I can tell that the advantage of each match is determined by who has the most of their respective drive gauge. So, let me lay out the good and bad here:

Pros:

  • Justice Stars are only gained when Izayoi hits you with one of her command moves. Meaning, if you stay back and dodge projectiles, Iza has no chance of getting stars.
  • Izayoi doesn't have a reliable way of getting out of pressure, without meter. Her teleports are unsafe (except D version), and Justice Phorizer isn't too bad to avoid if you see she has the meter for it, so hammer away!
  • Using [4]6D>236D here is very greatly to our advantage, and perhaps even our best friend when Izayoi is consistently spamming Sonic Saber.


    Cons:

    • When Izayoi does have stock, things can get a bit hectic. Her D teleport is our worst nightmare here, being able to warp behind us and serve justice. It's important to watch what your doing, so you don't get grabbed from behind at neutral or further away.
    • When Izayoi does have stars, spacing with j.236a orbs or [4]6D really isn't a great idea, for the same reason as mentioned above.
    • Approaching Izayoi no matter what form she is in can also prove to be a challenge as well. At neutral, she can freely spam Sonic Saber, and if you try to close distance with an air dash, be prepared to get DP'd right out of the air.
    • Her damage potential in GA mode is really scary here. A few GA combos and a DP here and there and we're finished. (Although we have the same amount of health, her damage even in normal mode is solid)
    • Watch your block strings here, one unsafe move and Justice Phorizer will be there to remind you who's the true deliverer of Justice.
    • Now, how you choose to handle things once the round begins is up to you. I personally just back away and get some charge before she can try to hit me. Once I'm maxed out, I begin my approach. In the event that she goes into OD mode for some quick stars, it may be in your best interest to do the same. In conclusion, things can be pretty rough for us here when Izayoi has stars, the key here is to not even give her the chance to get any!

      On a side note, can anyone tell me which is better in terms of damage, Mugen or Trans-Arm? Fighting ourself is difficult indeed..

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If you block a DP in the air, mash, that is all.

I'm really not sure what we could do, in the event that we do block it, she can just as easily teleport cancel away from us. Being the scrub that I am, I'd probably just Flux Iterna her and pray that it hits. ;_;

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There is no possible downside to mashing 5a that I can think of, and it makes life harder for them because they can't autopilot followups.

it's like if you could only cancel 5b into 6c, you'd be screwed if someone just mashed 5a after blocking 5b.

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point being to stop autopilot dp> teleport> dp again combo. which limits to what, teleport forward? works well if they try to do that at round start, in my experience

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Absent minded thought, but be sure to punish any whiffed DP's that Izayoi throws out with 3CC, or whatever you fancy. Just make sure she knows that she shouldn't throw it out recklessly.

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point being to stop autopilot dp> teleport> dp again combo. which limits to what, teleport forward? works well if they try to do that at round start, in my experience

I don't autopilot teleport forward specifically because of situations like this. Can't vouch for other Izayoi's though. She's really minus on 623B/C > 214A/B. If I see they blocked it i probably wont do anything or do 214C at the last moment. Or I may just 214C anyway not caring if it hit or not. Plus shit loses to 3C hard why would they do it at match start. Best thing to do against this character at match start is walk backwards or crouch there for a split second to see if they'll do anything. Or 3C if their dumb enough to keep attempting 5B/623B

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you're not gonna punish any whiffed dps with 3c. but pressing 3c when you expect they might do it. yeah.

I don't autopilot teleport forward specifically because of situations like this. Can't vouch for other Izayoi's though. She's really minus on 623B/C > 214A/B. If I see they blocked it i probably wont do anything or do 214C at the last moment. Or I may just 214C anyway not caring if it hit or not. Plus shit loses to 3C hard why would they do it at match start. Best thing to do against this character at match start is walk backwards or crouch there for a split second to see if they'll do anything. Or 3C if their dumb enough to keep attempting 5B/623B

? 5b will totally hit tsubaki out of 3c.

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3C can't punish DP's? I use it all the time on a Ragna and Jin. Don't see why Iza would be different, unless she had better recovery.

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you musta been slow on the draw that time.

Maybe. All in all I think the matchup is pretty even though. It was hard at first but when I become better with Izayoi it wasn't as difficult.

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3C can't punish DP's? I use it all the time on a Ragna and Jin. Don't see why Iza would be different, unless she had better recovery.

izayoi's dps recover relatively fast. I mean, they are not dps.

Ragna - 61F

Izayoi - 41F - no hitstop on whiff

at range 3c is going to take almost 30 frames to get there. not happening.

Maybe. All in all I think the matchup is pretty even though. It was hard at first but when I become better with Izayoi it wasn't as difficult.

it actually low profiles at the tip of izayoi 5b, and well, outranges. but if you dash 5b you'll hit 3c at roundstart for sure. (Results of testing).

Sounds about right to me though. overall it is pretty even, maybe a bit of favor for tsubaki.

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I think it's in a bit of favor for Izayoi. The only real disadvantage Izayoi has is she cant get Tsubaki off her reliably. If the Tsubaki manages to get in anyway. Izayoi can keep Tsubaki out if they make the right calls. And gain stars in the process. Izayoi has better neutral dominance in normal mode and out damages Tsubaki in both modes. Her basic NM neutral can prevent Tsubaki from gaining charges when away. And 46D to stop sabre isnt as good as you'd think in the matchup. But if Tsubaki does get in and hasnt gain a decent amount of charge during neutral Izayoi's has a decent amount of time to get her off of her and reset positions. IB Barrier pushes out Tsubaki really easily too.

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I fought an infuriating Izayoi yesterday. Kept spamming the projectile, then teleporting to catch me off guard from the other side.

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That's the game she plays.

Normal mode, she's gonna be using sonic sabres and disrupting your approach options with her neutral control. If she does catch you on block, her aim is to get more stars. Sonic sabre is her safest option when ending pressure, but if she goes into 236C / 236B she's pretty unsafe. Ofc, whether you'll be able to successfully punish her or not depends on the spacing. If she does teleport after those specials, you can mash 5A to discourage the player from teleporting in the same place or behind you. Eventually they may not teleport at all, or they could teleport backwards, and in which case I sometimes retaliate with 236X. It's not a reaction thing however.

GA mode is another thing but is a particular nuisence when she's in your face. Dash j.C is the primary method is hitting you and goes into 4.1k in the corner with two stars. She's got a variety of ways of landing it, including standard dash > j.C, or stance cancels > dash j.C. Stance cancels act like charge cancels so you can poke her out, although it won't do you any good if you're out of range. Plus she could even stance cancel and use 5B to sometimes stop you from jumping out.

Also, her air grab game is too strong.

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I think it's in a bit of favor for Izayoi. The only real disadvantage Izayoi has is she cant get Tsubaki off her reliably. If the Tsubaki manages to get in anyway. Izayoi can keep Tsubaki out if they make the right calls. And gain stars in the process. Izayoi has better neutral dominance in normal mode and out damages Tsubaki in both modes. Her basic NM neutral can prevent Tsubaki from gaining charges when away. And 46D to stop sabre isnt as good as you'd think in the matchup. But if Tsubaki does get in and hasnt gain a decent amount of charge during neutral Izayoi's has a decent amount of time to get her off of her and reset positions. IB Barrier pushes out Tsubaki really easily too.

Now I disagree with this after playing the matchup a little more and understanding it. It's not in Izayoi's favour.

Izayoi may have better neutral dominance but how exactly is she going to stop Tsubaki from using j.D to avoid sonic sabres? If you commit yourself to sonic sabre Tsubaki can just IAD j.C you and you'll most likely lose if you try to retaliate with 623B/623C, resulting in Tsubaki getting CH, and getting you in the corner (If the Tsubaki player uses the corner carry combo). Sure you can dash and try stuff like 623B/236C but you're only trying to make the right call here, and Izayoi's dash speed is horrible, making this a little unreliable. Tsubaki benefits by gaining charge and Izayoi gets nothing. Once you're in the corner, it can be game right there (this is why some Tsubaki players need to have faster pressure/mixup). Izayoi is getting no where with an 8f 2A (:(), 5A could work but isn't completely reliable because it can whiff on crouchers.

There's no reason for Tsubaki to use [4]6D here in neutral.

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Yeah; Izayoi's neutral just isn't that good because the angles covered by Sonic Saber are very limited, and her other neutral tools are kinda meh. All you should need to do here is avoid playing stupid and eventually you should be able to get in and wreak havoc.

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Now I disagree with this after playing the matchup a little more and understanding it. It's not in Izayoi's favour.

Izayoi may have better neutral dominance but how exactly is she going to stop Tsubaki from using j.D to avoid sonic sabres? If you commit yourself to sonic sabre Tsubaki can just IAD j.C you and you'll most likely lose if you try to retaliate with 623B/623C, resulting in Tsubaki getting CH, and getting you in the corner (If the Tsubaki player uses the corner carry combo). Sure you can dash and try stuff like 623B/236C but you're only trying to make the right call here, and Izayoi's dash speed is horrible, making this a little unreliable. Tsubaki benefits by gaining charge and Izayoi gets nothing. Once you're in the corner, it can be game right there (this is why some Tsubaki players need to have faster pressure/mixup). Izayoi is getting no where with an 8f 2A (:(), 5A could work but isn't completely reliable because it can whiff on crouchers.

There's no reason for Tsubaki to use [4]6D here in neutral.

she doesn't have to play a sonic sabre only game. but at the start I think that is how it goes and I don't think that's a good way to play it.

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If you're charging j.D over Sonic Sabers you're just asking for her to run and DP you. It's not a guaranteed punish but one DP into the corner potentially gets her a full 8 stocks so it's probably not a risk you want to run too often.

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Tsubaki isn't meant to get greedy with charge; she's using it as an evasive tactic. Izayoi's dash is not good enough for her to run in and DP. If Tsubaki is closer, she doesn't need to use j.D.

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If you're charging j.D over Sonic Sabers you're just asking for her to run and DP you. It's not a guaranteed punish but one DP into the corner potentially gets her a full 8 stocks so it's probably not a risk you want to run too often.

If you use j.D to evade long-range sonic sabres and you see her running up to you you still have the option of cancelling into air backdash and make her whiff it if she commits to 623B. The whole thing is still in Tsubaki's favour as it nets her charge while Izayoi gets nothing.

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She gets nothing if she whiffs but if she ever catches you with a hit then the game's pretty much done. She has to read you properly but she only needs one correct read. Meanwhile I dunno if she can actually punish a whiffed 623B off air backdash so at best you're back to neutral with maybe half a stock's worth of charge.

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