[CP] Tsubaki vs Kokonoe

[TheGreatReptar]

Ivysaur and I found a way for Tsubaki to punish 214214A in the corner.

5C>6B>22D>get 3 hits from the fireball>dash 6C> into whatever. You take 589 from the 3 hits. You can't instant block or you'll take more hits from the fireball from the reduced pushback. 214214B takes too long to come down so you can do the same punish without taking the damage.

Alternatively, if you don't want to take any damage, 5C>6C>236236C>236D>air ender works

Punishing it midscreen, you can just do dash 5B/5C>6CC and you'll move forward enough to avoid it. You have to dash into it or you won't move out of the way in time.

[Errol]

good stuff. you're telling me you get hit 3 times then just mash 6c and still combo? is that tight?

another thing I was considering, but cannot test is 2c>blade super

[TheGreatReptar]

2C>Blade Super also works. You have to do dash 2C if you don't IB, and the timing for that is pretty tight. CB>Blades>IAD combo nets like 3.6k

Tsubaki's 3 options seem to be

1 charge: 5C>6B>22D>get hit>6C>combo and eat 589 damage, don't IB

50 meter: 2B CH>blades>6CC>combo stuff, way easier on IB

50 meter, 1 charge: 5C>6C>236236C>236D>IAD with air ender

[Kiba]

Aw yeah forgot to say thanks for all of that TGR. Mighty handy.

[Kiba]

Zouf's method works if Kokonoe just used the Black hole.

However, if Kokonoe places the lightning pole and then initiates the black hole, you can't do anything. She can do something like Combo > (5A > 5B) > 5C > 22B > Black Hole, and you'll have to accept it, like I had to.

[BatousaiJ]

Many Kokonoe players seem fairly content in letting me get charges as they setup shop more or less but once she set the pace, it was difficult to take the advantage unless I managed to land a 46D > 236D or something.

Her neutral game is pretty scary with annoying normals like j.2C/2A/3C/6A and more. That's not even considering gravity/traps in the mix so in neutral, she seems to have quite the advantage.

If memory serves, her only options of trying to get out outside of super reversal is her teleport which we can gatling to hit for free and her back dash which we can do the same to. I'm thinking this might be a scenario where going in from moment one and never letting go might be the best option?

[Tsubaki 5B]

Many Kokonoe players seem fairly content in letting me get charges as they setup shop more or less but once she set the pace, it was difficult to take the advantage unless I managed to land a 46D > 236D or something.

Her neutral game is pretty scary with annoying normals like j.2C/2A/3C/6A and more. That's not even considering gravity/traps in the mix so in neutral, she seems to have quite the advantage.

If memory serves, her only options of trying to get out outside of super reversal is her teleport which we can gatling to hit for free and her back dash which we can do the same to. I'm thinking this might be a scenario where going in from moment one and never letting go might be the best option?

well i think 46D > 236D is our best friend in this match up because if she tries to set gravity > fireball we can get to her. as for her teleport if we continue our gatlings like 5BB>5CC the second part of those will net a free counter though i'm currently at a loss for how to deal with her ground trap and her super fireball with gravity,trap and teleport. especially since the super fireball covers both you and koko so you can't see anything lol stuffs crazy man. but i've found staying in the air is fine for the most part when it comes to Trap/Gravity

[Errol]

all i can say is you'll have to be very careful about how you use 46D>236D. because if they're paying attention to your charges, there are any number of ways to move around until you blow it with little to no risk, especially for her. can't even pull that on a whim because it's a charge so gotta be careful. good to have the threat of it though... nothings gonna make this good though...

[TheGreatReptar]

Oh hey, apparently you don't have to take damage to punish corner super ball. If you delay 5C to punish a little late, then cancel into 22D as late as you can, you'll actually be out of range and can still combo

[Kiba]

Stuff

-Kokonoe's 5C neutralises Tsubaki's projectile.

-( [4]6D ) > 236X/D only seems useful when Kokonoe has committed to something. It doesn't seem hard for her to tag you out of it with 3C.

-Konan used 5CC > 6B and Kokonoe interrupted the blockstring with 6C. Be wary.

[Airk]

Stuff

-Kokonoe's 5C neutralises Tsubaki's projectile.

-( [4]6D ) > 236X/D only seems useful when Kokonoe has committed to something. It doesn't seem hard for her to tag you out of it with 3C.

-Konan used 5CC > 6B and Kokonoe interrupted the blockstring with 6C. Be wary.

 

That last seems like a delay/execution error.  That or the frame data is wrong on Kokonoe's 6C is wrong.  5CC > 6B is a 3 frame gap, Koko 6C is foot invulnerable at frame 4 unless the data is wrong.  Which it could be.  Actually, if someone with Kokonoe wants to test this, it should be easy to discern where the error is.

[Errol]

gap of 3 frames = active on 4

invuln on 4 = invuln to stuff active on 4

[Airk]

Wait, hold on.  x.x

 

A move with 18 frames of blockstun. A move that becomes active on frame 21.  that should be 3 frames because of how startup works, right? (It lists the first active frame).  Or is there a one frame 'tax' before you can cancel, so you really only get 17 frames of blockstun?

[Errol]

no, then I think I would say it has a 2 frame gap, and only moves invuln from frame 3 should work if canceled immediately. 

[zaeris]

I'm jut wondering if you could punish Kokonoe ja neutral with 3cc if he is fishing for air to air.

[Errol]

i would not recommend it. 

[Svamparn]

That last seems like a delay/execution error.  That or the frame data is wrong on Kokonoe's 6C is wrong.  5CC > 6B is a 3 frame gap, Koko 6C is foot invulnerable at frame 4 unless the data is wrong.  Which it could be.  Actually, if someone with Kokonoe wants to test this, it should be easy to discern where the error is.

 

It was not a question about delay or execution.

I looked up the situation in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1aZq8POj0 (@19:15) and the 6C was possible because Tsujikawa instant blocked the 5CC and he also managed to get a FC because Konan whiffcanceled into 6BB. 

The 6C is though possible without instantblock if we try to go into 6B from normals like 5B or 5C since they are lvl3 and not lvl4 like 5CC.

[Airk]

Oh, excellent! That all makes sense then.  My faith in how things work is restored.  Thanks! (Note that we -probably- don't have to worry about getting 6C'd after 5B/5C because of the threat of a delayed gatling to something with body attribute, since Koko 6C only has foot invuln.)