[CP] Tsubaki vs Litchi

[Kiba]

Discuss the Litchi matchup here!

[TheGreatReptar]

The matchup starts putting you in a really bad position. You're in range for Itsuu and 2B, Itsuu beating out going in at her with an airdash, 2B beating pretty much everything else. Trying anything other than backing off is really just not in Tsubaki's favor, especially considering the reward Litchi gets for landing anything (~3.5k plus corner from either 2B or ItsuuA starter) compared to yours (~2.2k off of j.CC dive whiff confirm, ~3.4k off of fatal 3CC)

Also, going in the air is bad. Stay grounded. Litchi's AA reward is pretty ridiculous, and her air normals are way better.

She still can't really do anything on defense in staffless mode. Using your defensive options to get an advantage after she drops the staff helps a lot.

[Airk]

Theoretically couldn't you do 22B on round opener? It's three frames faster than her 2B[m] and she DOES start out holding the staff. The reward for CH 22B is pretty large, if I recall, but I don't know if you need a charge to really make it happen (probably?). Still loses to Itsuu, but at least you can keep her honest a little bit?

[Daedron]

22B CH can be followed up with 6CC without charge, you just need to be quick on your feet because you don't get much time to confirm it, leads into 3.1K if you do ground ender, like 3.5K with air ender.

[TheGreatReptar]

I must have derped the timing the few times I tried opening a round with 22B on Urichinan because I was getting blown up for it. Litchi can always guard point it though. It's just not a game that I want to play at the start of a round.

[Daedron]

Yeah, it's not worth it either way. I prefer air back dashing as well. Better safe than sorry.

[Errol]

this matchup was pretty bad in EX and it's no different here. 4-6. There is no part of this matchup where you have the advantage and she has more and better gimmicks this time around and we have less in that category. so you'll just have to thoroughly outplay them.

[EXonestar]

Only thing that makes me feel safe is having 2 stock and 4[6] 236D at my disposal but other than that - the match up is exactly the same.

[TheGreatReptar]

Tsubaki can punish Litchi trying to do 6D>CT with 5C. You can also OD between the hits and the CT whiffs entirely.

 

You have to be really aware of spacing though. If Litchi does 6D at max distance, she'll be too far back for 5C to hit, however she can't go into 6D gaplessly at that range to begin with. 

 

50% health 50 meter OD combo does like 5400 damage. 5700 if you had another charge and get the 5 charge version of 236236D. Solid. Can also get way more with mugen

 

Edit: If you OD punish, dash 5C still counterhits. Getting 7800 damage at 100 meter

[Kiba]

Wow no post from Keebs!

 

22B match start can lose to itsuu, I wouldn't even think of doing it. 3C can beat itsuu but will lose her 2B. I'm not about the gambling game, I'd just back off, but it's an option for the daredevils.

 

I use 421A or charge when I've got the space. Most of the time I'm trying to bait the Litchi into doing dash 6B against me so I can cease charging and IAD j.C for a hit. j.236A is useful for avoiding the staff when Litchi has it moving across the ground. You could just IAD too.

 

When she's pressuring you, you've gotta call out when she's gonna set the staff, otherwise you'll be blocking for a while. Also if Litchi uses 6D, please please please IB the 2nd hit. You can mash 5A and beat her options that way. If you don't IB, you'll have to keep blocking. 6D is also a good please for her to use CT, and you wont hit her with the DP because she moves backwards. Maybe 623C > j.214D will hit? Don't remember.

[EXonestar]

3C can beat itsuu but will lose her 2B.

 

j.236A is useful for avoiding the staff when Litchi has it moving across the ground. You could just IAD too.

2B[m] at round start for litchi is kinda a death wish (Recovery hurts my eyes).  I think you may mean 5B[m]

Also J.236A if the litchi runs along 2D staff launch > She can punish you on descent

-Or-

from playing you in the past. the Arc/Angle of j.236a > The Staff Launch will eat the Fire ball. And leave you open for complete obliteration ;D

[Airk]

okay, so WTF do I do against a Litchi who does jumpback > j.D > Four Winds over and over? If I try to approach when they jump back, I get hit by jump D.  If I block j.D I get locked down by four winds and they can do whatever.  If I don't block it, they can still do it and it fills up a ton of space and gives them a free approach.

[TeeJay]

okay, so WTF do I do against a Litchi who does jumpback > j.D > Four Winds over and over? If I try to approach when they jump back, I get hit by jump D.  If I block j.D I get locked down by four winds and they can do whatever.  If I don't block it, they can still do it and it fills up a ton of space and gives them a free approach.

Have you tried Dping it on reaction? They may be a panic Litchi so perhaps you could bait it. I know my Litchi gets paranoid without her staff. It's kind've risky to j.D. Maybe preemptive double jump if they are committing to it early or hang back and get that charge. 

 

As Dusk said, j.D is a specific angle, takes forever to recover, four winds is down after landing. They just are getting you to block it by knowing when you'll be in that sweet spot. Worst case, if you don't block it. dj the four winds and dive to create space or something a like. 

[Dusk Thanatos]

You can't use shishin in the air, and I'm pretty sure j.D has landing recovery

 

outspace j.d and run at them lol

[Airk]

A whole 4 frames of landing recovery.  Not sure that really qualifies when they're across the screen.  And usually I'm not blocking j.D, it's hitting the ground in front of me because they are jumping back.

 

The problem isn't so much "Help, I am being locked down" so much as "help, I can't figure out how to approach around this."

[EXonestar]

Tbh if a Litchi does J.D
You have 4 scenario's  but one of the best ways to beat em all is to figure out if the litchi likes to do

J.D  > Jumps on the staff 
or
J.D  -  land > four winds
or
J.D - 4kote > J.D[e] (staff will be set to 2D so it'll run across the ground)
or
if they see you want to punish them whiles falling they'll do > 4kote  > j.d > j.236b (haku) / j.236c (Chun) 

 

You can stop her from jumping on the staff by standing near the staff ready to 2C > that will smack her off it (before anything can touch you - Kiba does that)
If they do Air Chun , with good timing you can punish that aswell with 2c (i think it trades sometimes  - cant remember)
If they do the J.D > 4kote > in to anything -  they still have to pick between Air.Chun or Jumping on the staff.

 

so if you see the litchi Land and do Four winds > you can move away from it  or bait it  by standing behind the staff when four winds activates > and jumping over it when its already on route to go in the direction you were standing.  (Only problem with that is that Litchi's J.B may win the air battle but if you did J.C first  , you can win...another experience from Mr.Kiba....)

[Airk]

Yeah; I feel like I lose the air battle when I try to jump over the 4 winds, but I'll see what I can do; Thanks, that's a very helpful breakdown of their options.

[EXonestar]

No problem.
And yeah the air battle vs litchi is very bad.  If you know the litchi is going to try j.B you - only way you'll win is if you do a J.C way before they do J.B. but that's risky ,  she could hang back for a 4b[e] (whiles four winds is rolling)

You could play it safe midscreen and high jump > dashing foward or backwards.
 

Also keep in mind, if litchi does J.D when your back is near corner > the staff will bounce of the edge of the wall >  before falling.  So if you did block it > Run out of the corner. Don't allow the litchi to do any nonsense - she can't jump to the staff because its still in recovery from bouncing off the wall....so either prepare an Anti Air attempt or get out that corner and put her in the corner. (keeping in mind the staff will be set in 2D > Running across the ground)

Best thing to do in this match up is to remember how the staff is set > and how they move the staff.  You can then use that to decide your next action.

 

[Dusk Thanatos]

A whole 4 frames of landing recovery.  Not sure that really qualifies when they're across the screen.  And usually I'm not blocking j.D, it's hitting the ground in front of me because they are jumping back.

 

The problem isn't so much "Help, I am being locked down" so much as "help, I can't figure out how to approach around this."

 

I'm being serious

 

Just make j.D whiff and run at them past the staff, then hit 2C/2A whatever

 

he's letting you get in for free if it whiffs

 

and if it's all the way across the screen, you should still be able to close the distance before he lands unless Tsubaki's runspeed is way worse than I remember

[EXonestar]

You are 100% right to just run under but is it Easier said than done tbh. The temptation to sometimes attempt  an air grab is there or try challenge her in the air. You can't simply let litchi do J.D all the time and hard bait it every single time. And if you're running pass, the litchi may just jump on the staff. Also whats to stop the litchi from simply jumping back  whiles you are attempting to run under J.D and her doing > IAD > j.2D.
 

Also here's another good idea which I think you'll like.
If the litchi likes to perform a special in the air i.e. Kote / J.236B or C  /  Jump on the staff.
Try to run under her > then cross her up again. 

If the litchi attempts to do the command that makes her jump on the staff> the cross up will ruin her input and make her do a J.236B/C  -> free to Anti Air her after than. its something I tested vs a few litchi friends of mine.  If they already had the plan of jumping on the staff> you can screw up their inputs (IF you can make that little cross up - it depends where you are but its a possibility

[cowtron]

3C  when litchi is in Itsuu gives a good fatal cunter. If she's applying pressure in the corner, a good timed dp can get you out. Also, be aware without staff she doesn't have a reversal unless she has 50 heat.

[Airk]

You can't really react to Itsuu with 3C; If you get too predictable about going for it, they can stuff you with the C followup.