I-No Matchup Ratios Discussion...

[mynusdono]

Slayer has no AA options?!!!!!! 5P,2S,6P, FB serve him pretty well.

AA options vs. Ino, especially on wakeup.....obviously. I-no dashes and jumps in on him all day. jK clashes with 2S. watch match vids. obviously your not gonna dash in on him full screen or unprotected.

[bucklemyshoe]

CH - MYNUS - BMS

OS - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

AB - 6/4 - 6/4

DI - 6/4 - 4/6

RO - 4/6 - 4.5/5.5

SO - 5/5 - 5/5

ED - 4.9/5.1 - 5.5/4.5

KY - 4/6 - 3.5/6.5

PO - 6/4 - 6/4

FA - 4/6 - 5/5*

MA - 2/8 - 1.5/8.5

MI - 4/6 - 4/6

CH - 3/7 - 4/6

BA - 4.5/5.5 - 4/6

JA - 5/5 - 4/6

JO - 8/2 - 2.5/7.5

AX - 4/6 - 4/6

AJ - 5/5 - 3/7

VE - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

TE - 5.5/4.5 - 5.5/4.5

SL - 5/5 - 4.5/5.5

ZA - 5/5 - 5/5

BR - 5.5/4.5 - 4.5/5.5

*Like I said, I don't have any against faust experince so my rating for that match isn't valid.

Everything is fairly close to the same rating. I highlighted the matches were there was a major difference.

It would be nice if Vegta12 and Honnou would take the time to share how they rate the match ups, I could add them to the above.

EDIT: I'd agree the Slayer match is even but Slayer's damage output gives him the edge IMO.

[excelence]

i'm curious... how the heck u call IN v Di 6/4 on Di advantage? =/

[Digital Watches]

slayer got like the best aa in the game lol everything is like anti air truthfully

That's pretty laughable. Slayer's AA isn't terrible, but it's certainly not that great either.

[bucklemyshoe]

Dizzy gives me alot of trouble. Her mixup can be a pain in the ass. If she's able to get some summons out getting in on her can be a challange. Notes don't work well because by the time you get a Note out she has a fish and a 421+S coming your way, sometimes more. The only thing I-No really has going for her in this match is if she manages to pin Dizzy in the corner with some tension. 50% tension + the corner = 320 damage combo. Dizzy is pretty much capable of dominating the same space I-No is with her double dash so the usual advantage I-No has is irrelevent. Let's not forget that a slashbacked dash in mixup can lead to Necro's Anger or worst, a corner throw.

EDIT: not the best example (I've seen Kazuki and Ten both do way better) but recent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E40bQsGsqVA

[stinkymonz]

[Ok, never mind. I thought he meant I-No's matchup against Slayer and Pot. That makes sense, haha.] Also, 2/8 [for vs. May] is a bit extreme isn't it? The worst the Japanese gave the matchup is 3/7 and that's already unplayable.

[Mechanica]

^Dude when he said SL/PO he means the Slayer v Potemkin matchup. Which is shitty for slayer. I don't know if it's quite as bad as it's exaggerated but it is an unfortunate matchup for SL. Haha, I don't play I-no but I was wondering why he said Johnny had such an advantage over her. Does Johnny have ANY good match-ups like that?

[Stryfe]

One huge problem with coming to a conclusion about a matchup ratio is that not every single player of a specific character plays exactly the same. Also, the skill levels of said players are in question as well. I respect everyone's opinion here most definitely, but each evaluation is VERY subjective to each I-no player. I *personally* find Sol to be a huge pain in the ass to fight. Maybe it's just that the Sol player that I play has a different style, or is on a different skill level than others. If you put a good I-no versus a crappy Testament, you can pretty much guess who's most likely going to come out the winner. However, I think we should look at the tools each character posesses that MIGHT sway the matchup into the other character's favor. But again, the ability of the other person to use these tools effectively is also

[excelence]

Dizzy gives me alot of trouble. Her mixup can be a pain in the ass. If she's able to get some summons out getting in on her can be a challange. Notes don't work well because by the time you get a Note out she has a fish and a 421+S coming your way, sometimes more. The only thing I-No really has going for her in this match is if she manages to pin Dizzy in the corner with some tension. 50% tension + the corner = 320 damage combo. Dizzy is pretty much capable of dominating the same space I-No is with her double dash so the usual advantage I-No has is irrelevent. Let's not forget that a slashbacked dash in mixup can lead to Necro's Anger or worst, a corner throw.

EDIT: not the best example (I've seen Kazuki and Ten both do way better) but recent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E40bQsGsqVA

actualy I-no control space a lot better on this game with her hcl,dive & FB moves and btw Notes is a bad idea on this matchup imo, it'll trade with fish and give Dizzy momentum on her Zoo pressure like u've stated... but seriusly HCL is a big pain in the ass to deal with on neutral(if u spam machine Gun HCL instead of notes), the only reason i can pawn my crew who using I-no is, i know this match up better than him and he doesn't have any patience

btw: haven't seen the vid, maybe later when i got time

[feri]

Sol has quite a large advantage over ino and dizzy plain sucks vs ino (whats the deal BMS?). I-no j.p > dizzies double airdashing around with large hitbox. Tell her to gtfo of your airspace. And slashbacking i-no mixup WHOA O_O there is something wrong with your mixup if its becoming a regular thing (or does this particular dizzy player have some good input skills). And you don't need the corner to own dizzy, a random hcl on reaction to her summoning midscreen can greatly turn the tides. But these I guess are personal opinions in the end and not something concrete.

[mynusdono]

I-no j.p > dizzies double airdashing around with large hitbox. Tell her to gtfo of your airspace. And slashbacking i-no mixup WHOA O_O there is something wrong with your mixup if its becoming a regular thing (or does this particular dizzy player have some good input skills). And you don't need the corner to own dizzy, a random hcl on reaction to her summoning midscreen can greatly turn the tides.

But these I guess are personal opinions in the end and not something concrete.

Nah thats pretty concrete lol. except for the fact its pretty safe to use H note on dizzy all day. todos los dias. she cant cope. if she calls fish either aim note at fish or HCL her for CH. if she calls spear aim note at spear or jump into spear and IB, dizzy will always chase so air throw her when she does. STBT out of her corner airdash mixup or under laser fish for free. ino has way too many movement options here. This is a complete aerial air dashing fest where one char is trying to get in. your goal is to KD whether by HCL CH of of summoned fish or make her block a note in the air and bring her down to the ground to start your mixup. FRC those ground P notes during ground block strings on her.

[mynusdono]

this info is based on my actual match experience and observations and those of my peers, and that of the Japanese I-nos, taken from their blog posts and thoughts. Everyone has their own educated opinion. I'm pretty confident this list falls mostly in between everyone. Sryfe is exactly right. I definetly take into account all the chars strngths and weaknesses and try not to base the matchup ratios on personal bias of my own based on which characters I have an easy or hard time fighting against. accurate matchup list is 30% actual data gathered from matches and 70% educated theory fighter, based on said characters strengths and weaknesses.

[NerdJosh]

this info is based on my actual match experience and observations and those of my peers, and that of the Japanese I-nos, taken from their blog posts and thoughts. Everyone has their own educated opinion. I'm pretty confident this list falls mostly in between everyone. Sryfe is exactly right. I definetly take into account all the chars strngths and weaknesses and try not to base the matchup ratios on personal bias of my own based on which characters I have an easy or hard time fighting against. accurate matchup list is 30% actual data gathered from matches and 70% educated theory fighter, based on said characters strengths and weaknesses.

Hey Chaz what do you believe Faust vs Ino is? We haven't played an epic matchup in years, I miss our matchups.

[mynusdono]

Hey Chaz what do you believe Faust vs Ino is? We haven't played an epic matchup in years, I miss our matchups.

6/4 advantage Faust. yeah man we havent played in a really long time. not since evo east last year i think...

[Honnou]

2/8 is a bit extreme for may but...

May, Faust, Axl, and Robo Ky are definitely I-no's hardest matchups.

Slayer can be fucking annoying but I don't think it's that bad. You just have to play different and more safe.

Easy is an exaggeration, but I would say I-no vs Dizzy is 6/4ish. Any time Dizzy summons something except at maximum range, she is susceptible to HCL, even in block strings. Just watch out if she tries to bait with frc scythe/delayed 2hs->ice spike or something JCed over an HCL.

And yes, j.p owns Dizzy and other air offenses from characters like Sol and stuff. Don't be dumb and try to j.p slayer's j.hs or some bs will happen. Just IB (in the air depending on height), air/ground throw or get around it somehow.

Honnou

OS - 4.5/5.5

AB - 6/4

DI - 6/4

RO - 4/6

SO - 5/5

ED - 4.5/5.5

KY - 4.5/5.5

PO - 6/4

FA - 3.5/6.5

MA - 3/7

MI - 4/6

CH - 4/6

BA - 4/6

JA - 4/6

JO - 5.5/4.5

AX - 4/6

AN - 4.5/5.5???

VE - 4.5/5.5

TE - 4.5/5.5

SL - 4.5/5.5

ZA - 5/5

BR - 4.5/5.5

[Hatred Edge]

So aside from Slayer not having good wake up AA options, how is that fight even?

[Stryfe]

Hey Chaz what do you believe Faust vs Ino is? We haven't played an epic matchup in years, I miss our matchups.

If you're going to ACT V, we can have a few rounds with my I-no. She's not on the same level of Chaz (yet) but I'd love some Faust experience

Also, what is AJ Honnou?

[9TNine]

If you're going to ACT V, we can have a few rounds with my I-no. She's not on the same level of Chaz (yet) but I'd love some Faust experience

Also, what is AJ Honnou?

He meant An (Anji)

-9

[koogy]

"Slayer - 5/5 (melee fight. stay on that ass, he has no AA options.)" maybe your diverse group of players should invest in some reaction time and basics.

[feri]

I'm surprised that Mynus would even begin to consider I-no vs slayer matchup was fair, what planet are you living on? You just must be that much better than the all the slayers you've ever played against...

[Stryfe]

Potemkin - 6/4 (good match for ino since she can completely control his movement.) I just noticed this. I'm just curious how this is in her advantage. IMO, I think that this match is like a 5.5-4.5 Potemkin advantage. I-no's mobility I guess can be considered a pro for her in this, but it's not like Potemkin is lacking tools to shut her shit down (Potemkin Buster). I thought that his only bad matchups were against characters like Testament, Eddie, Bridget, Dizzy.

[Honnou]

sorry thats supposed to be AN for anji. Slayer has an easier time doing damage, just less mobility.

[bucklemyshoe]

CH - MYNUS - BMS - HONNOU

OS - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

AB - 6/4 - 6/4 - 6/4

DI - 6/4 - 4/6 - 6/4

RO - 4/6 - 4.5/5.5 - 4/6

SO - 5/5 - 5/5 - 5/5

ED - 4.9/5.1 - 5.5/4.5 - 4.5/5.5

KY - 4/6 - 3.5/6.5 - 4.5/5.5

PO - 6/4 - 6/4 - 6/4

FA - 4/6 - 5/5 - 3.5/6.5

MA - 2/8 - 1.5/8.5 - 3/7

MI - 4/6 - 4/6 - 4/6

CH - 3/7 - 4/6 - 4/6

BA - 4.5/5.5 - 4/6 - 4/6

JA - 5/5 - 4/6 - 4/6

JO - 8/2 - 2.5/7.5 - 5.5/4.5

AX - 4/6 - 4/6 - 4/6

AN - 5/5 - 3/7 - 4.5/5.5

VE - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

TE - 5.5/4.5 - 5.5/4.5 - 4.5/5.5

SL - 5/5 - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

ZA - 5/5 - 5/5 - 5/5

BR - 5.5/4.5 - 4.5/5.5 - 4.5/5.5

AVERAGE

OS - 4.5/5.5

AB - 6/4

DI - 5.5/4.5

RO - 4/6

SO - 5/5

ED - 5/5

KY - 4/6

PO - 6/4

FA - 4/6

MA - 2/8

MI - 4/6

CH - 3.5/6.5

BA - 4/6

JA - 4.5/5.5

JO - 5.5/4.5

AX - 4/6

AN - 4/6

VE - 4.5/5.5

TE - 5/5

SL - 4.5/5.5

ZA - 5/5

BR - 5/5

I'd say this is pretty accurate but if Vegta decided to post his opinion I'll redo the averages.

[mynusdono]

"Slayer - 5/5 (melee fight. stay on that ass, he has no AA options.)"

maybe your diverse group of players should invest in some reaction time and basics.

Obviously my diverse group of players HAVE if we are placing top 3 and top 5 in almost every major tourney we attend. So I would just take the advice or at least constructively ask why I or in this case we think so.

[mynusdono]

Potemkin - 6/4 (good match for ino since she can completely control his movement.)

I just noticed this. I'm just curious how this is in her advantage. IMO, I think that this match is like a 5.5-4.5 Potemkin advantage. I-no's mobility I guess can be consider (ed a pro for her in this, but it's not like Potemkin is lacking tools to shut her shit down (Potemkin Buster). I thought that his only bad matchups were against characters like Testament, Eddie, Bridget, Dizzy.

Ino vs Pot:

Pros -

1) mobility (air dash and dj out of dash. forcebreak cancel.)

2) backdash (invul 11 frames. backdash pots 2D in block strings.)

3) note (confuse with the 2 speeds. H note when pot jumps. I-no can STBT under reflect and note again over the reflect wave.)

4) HCl (use to dodge slide head, hard for pot to cope with the range of the move.)

5) I-no doesnt need tension to combo Pot for good damage. (hitbox large for 6P>5H>iad K>S>H>5S/5K)

6) Use JP in dash in mixup for better/safer range. Pot cannot duck under it.

CONS -

1) Pot can PB STBT before the hit. make sure you range it properly so he cant BD and PB you. he Can PB you without backdashing, but every char can throw you in this period. but unless they Like getting CH and losing al least 60% they will just block low. still use sparingly and smart.

2) Flick - dont throw not directly at Pot (duh) put it on top of his head so it hits esentially behind him. dont let the reflect limit your movement.

3) Ino has no real invul wakeup besides ground overdrive. even then a smart pot will wait and use His OD to punish you and youll be a sad panda...on the other hand VCL on wakeup is invul to low hits so use if you KNOW pot will go low on Oki. utilize wakeup backdash too.

4) Damage - Pot hurts....dont get PB. seriously pot shouldnt ever be able to punish you with a PB so just look for it in strings and backdash accordingly.

-Any other questions? From this above list its obvious Ino has more tools to control the flow of the match as well as Pots movement. Koichi thinks the same way. let me know what you think or if you need an explination on Pot or any other chars.