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[CP] Tager vs Jin: It's cold in the D

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5a 5b snags Jin's backdash on GF oki, which makes it pretty sweet. (the 5a hits and the 5b combos). He's capable of avoiding this if he delays his backdash a tiny bit though, so 5C is still a more reliable way of countering backdash. Not to mention 5C confirm leads to pretty good combos.

We can still safely 5A and block any of his DPs. (4A)

Upon further inspection, we can no longer safe-poke his DP D and I'm not entirely sure why. The frame data may be incorrect for either GF, Tager 5A, or Hirensou.

Expect lots of passive Jin spacing and zoning. He's got no need to close the gap on you. Be very careful with Voltec Charge because Ice Car hits low now and can CH you if you use it too much.

We can 360 ice car now! You can counter it during pressure strings with 360 or 720.

As for everything else, this MU is basically the same.

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FYI Tager could never 4A Jin D DP, it only works for his C DP.

His air ex ice is no longer 3 blades but 1 big blade that hits multiple times. (5 I think)

Sledge through it, his recovery is still really bad after he throws it out.

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FYI Tager could never 4A Jin D DP, it only works for his C DP.

Weird, I used this all the time in CSE and always just barely got an instant block. Maybe they were just slow to DP.

His air ex ice is no longer 3 blades but 1 big blade that hits multiple times. (5 I think)

Sledge through it, his recovery is still really bad after he throws it out.

Yeah it seems pretty bad now. Don't see the good Jins using it for anything anymore. The ground version doesn't keep you locked very long either (on block I mean).

He has fuzzy setups in the corner with Hizangeki as a surprise overhead at the end now.

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yes, jin's sliding hitbox doesn't let you hit with a spark bolt after a 5D that hits him while he is on the ground. if you hit him in the air with 5D spark bolt will connect.

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Oh 5D. I read that as 5C for some reason.

Still that's weird that certain sliding anims would straight-up avoid projectiles that others don't.

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4A > 4B beats Jin's frame 1 backdash, C DP, gives us pressure on block, and beats mashing. If you aren't using it you're a dummy.

 

2B also beats C DP and is a good option after GF.

 

 

D DP needs to be hard baited. Backdash > 360A works, 360B doesn't, 720 Does. Voltic Charge > Hammer or Voltic Charge > Cancel > 720 is also guaranteed.

 

Voltic Charge > Hammer also beats Arrows of Ice reversal super. Backdash > 720 beats Frame 1 Arrows of Ice but loses to anything after frames 1-3 or so.

 

Basically:

 

If you are baiting a D DP:

If  they have 25, Voltic Charge > Cancel > Hammer/720 is best (depending on their burst, health left, etc)

If they have 50, Voltic Charge > Cancel > Hammer/720 is best (depending on their burst, health left, etc)

If they have 75, Backdash > 720 is best

If you have 50 meter and they have 100, it's a tossup. Backdash grab is probably best, because it can't be D DP'd, but since it loses to Arrows of Ice and they have the meter to RC it, it can lose to reversal super. Make a hard read based on opponent.

 

On any other GF oki sitation, 4A > 4B is almost certainly best, but mix it up when needed.

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Doublepost but different topics so WHATEVER

 

After 5C on block, 360A beats 6B, 2D, and 6C, but they can jump cancel.

After 6B on block, 360A beats everything except jumping.

After 6B > 214D on Block, 720 on a magnetized Jin wins

2A obviously beats 6B on startup

5D on IB is punishable at all ranges with 720C

 

 

Because almost all of Jin's normals are jump cancelable, 360A/720ing anything is insanely risky. Jin's pokes, runaway game, mixup options, and ability to jump cancel everything on hit makes this matchup a real bitch. 360A after 5C is pretty good, 5A his 6B on reaction is great if you can, but you kind of have to make hard reads in his pressure string to get anything started. 5C, j5C, and 2D/5D pokes are hard to deal with. Sledge is so risky in this matchup because 5C is just such a commonly used option. With Ice Car being a low, charging your Voltic Charge at fullscreen is asking to die. If you tap Voltic Charge they can't punish you on reaction, but they're going to use the opportunity to run forward and start pressure or regain space. Chances are you won't be fullscreen against jin for long anyways, they can dance pretty safely in 5C range.

 

Neutral is a real struggle against Jin, and with our large hitbox his super-jumpcancelable pressure is kind of ridiculous.

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4A > 4B is an easy option select. If they C DP, 5B doesn't gatling from 5A because 5A whiffs and because you're holding back you block. If they block or get hit, 5A > 5B comes out and you can combo

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