[CP] Tager vs Terumi: Wow such meter

[A.X.I.S.]

His 6A is unbeatable.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Just found this by complete accident and it's pretty fucking awesome:

If you bait a Soutenjin, block the first hit the you can forward tk 360C him out of the second one. Swag.

Alternatively, just jump forward after blocking the first hit (the second hit misses you, amazingly) and grab him after you land. You can't grab him without magnetism otherwise unless you walk forward a tiny bit, but that seems needlessly difficult to me when you can just jump.

Terumi does have an overhead, and a fairly good one at that, it's just a bit unorthodox. He does it by tking j2D after jc'ing hits in pressure strings. The only hits he can jc on block are 5A, 6A, 5C (the first hit), and 2C. He's + if you block the j2D, enough + that you won't be 360'ing him. You can get him if you IB though, and 720 works regardless. Note that that only applies if he attempts to continue pressure. He has the option of just backing off.

As his 5C has 2 hits, it's really easy to reliably IB the second hit so make sure to do so at all times. If you IB the second hit of 5C you can 360A him out of 2C, but not a 5D.

His 2D is super easy to sledge. He probably won't bother using this much against Tager at all.

His command throw doesn't have any immunities at all. Counter that shit or 360 it.

[Maho]

The air 360 on Soutenjin is fun, the easiest way to punish is to crouch block the the second part will whiff, you can do whatever you want there like a TK j2C FC, also if he has 100% meter to RC it, you can backdash then crouch right away to make it whiff fully and then punish the same way. After a Gadget do not backdash right away to bait a Soutenjin but wait for the freeze, if you do it too soon you'll get hit by the second part of the super.

His tk j2D isn't too bad i think, you can 2A him out of 5A and 6A, with IB you can do it out of 2C (won't be doing this though), but in the case of 5C you'll have to block, you can't backdash out of a TK j2D string because it recovers fast and he can punish you backdash with 2As.

But the really annoying thing with his pressure is his 6B which has a lot of throw and low invuln untill it hits, is plus on block, is feintable for throw mind games and fatals for lots of damage, so using 360A/720 in his blockstrings is really dangerous. When he uses it in a chain, you can 5A him out of it, you might be able to do that on reaction sometimes but by looking for this you'll be blocking more, and if you're too late, you're in for some pain.

Another bad thing of this matchup is when he doesn't want to come at you, like Axis said in the first post, you won't be beating his 6A from the air so you have to approach from the ground, he will probably use 5D from max range and throw some 6D in there so you won't get too sledge happy.

So you can Sledge his 5D but you won't get much from max range without Spark, also it's really fast so you won't be reacting but more fishing with random Sledges (also beware of clashes), and 6D can whiff punish you for a fatal combo (don't know the max damage on this yet). 5C can beat 6D in footsies but beware that on trade you will probably get comboed, and sadly it's way too slow to compete with his 5D. Your 5D can be use from far away to beat both his 5D and 6D, but it's really risky as whiffing one can give him a free CH 6C.

For now i manage pretty well with the rushdown Terumis, but not as much with the one i played that goes only for footsies against Tager, we had a lot of time ups during our matches. Anyway we'll have to wait to see what the Terumi players come up with but i think this matchup might be quite annoying.

[Manta]

If you bait a Soutenjin, block the first hit the you can forward tk 360C him out of the second one. Swag.

Can you not just use j.B+C and get a throwcounter into a more damaging combo? I was of the opinion that j.360C was a bit of a weak choice if you have a free air hit. Or do you mean you need to suck him in with the attraction?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Can you not just use j.B+C and get a throwcounter into a more damaging combo? I was of the opinion that j.360C was a bit of a weak choice if you have a free air hit. Or do you mean you need to suck him in with the attraction?

If you want to be optimal you should just FC j2C him lol. You can get away with almost anything afterwards. Just hit 9 after blocking the first hit; the second hit will miss you.

[Manta]

If you want to be optimal you should just FC j2C him lol. You can get away with almost anything afterwards. Just hit 9 after blocking the first hit; the second hit will miss you.

Heh. fair enough. Weird ass punish though.

Can you do anything similar if you backdash the first hit?

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Heh. fair enough. Weird ass punish though.

Can you do anything similar if you backdash the first hit?

No, the second hit will hit you immediately after your invuln frames (you can barely block in time though). Good luck reacting with a backdash in time too.

You can also avoid the second hit just by crouching. Soutenjin is a pretty terrible reversal all-in-all.

[Manta]

No, the second hit will hit you immediately after your invuln frames (you can barely block in time though). Good luck reacting with a backdash in time too.

You can also avoid the second hit just by crouching. Soutenjin is a pretty terrible reversal all-in-all.

I'm more imagining my twitch backdash to beat obvious reversal windows, like after gadget finger and they have 100% heat. It does seem to be a theme that while he has a lot of distorts to choose from, they're generally a bit crap.

[DeadliestxXx]

Are there any moves/gaps I need to look for to punish Terumi during his pressure? Pressure seems easy and straightforward to block and I figured is soutenjin is easily punishable

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Are there any moves/gaps I need to look for to punish Terumi during his pressure? Pressure seems easy and straightforward to block and I figured is soutenjin is easily punishable

You should know that his j2D is a pressure resetter that can't be 360A'ed (if done right, anyway). There's gaps between his C moves on IB, haven't grinded it a ton though. 6B can always be 360'd

His command throw is like worthless. It's like a super bad Gasaishou.

[Koopa_Klawz]

I thought Terumi's 6B beats grabs.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I thought Terumi's 6B beats grabs.

I'm not sure, I'd have to test it. I'm busy in Ranked right now. I think I may be 360A'ing past the active frames and getting him once he's punishable.

The frame data just says low-body invuln

[Justice7541]

Are there any moves/gaps I need to look for to punish Terumi during his pressure? Pressure seems easy and straightforward to block and I figured is soutenjin is easily punishable

5c(2) ib 2c can be dp'd out, there's like a 1f gap. Watch out for him doing 3c on IB instead though since that's airtight and if you are churning when he does it you may get hit and eat 5k.

He can do airtight 5a off j.2d I believe on Tager so don't bother churning on block. You can reversal 2a/5b/6b stagger since those aren't airtight but mashing is out since they're + on block. You can 5a mash out of 2c j.2d but watch out for 3c ch frametrap which leads to 5k anywhere on screen.

In general Terumi has Hazama rushdown pressure but even better due to dash speed, the downside being it's easier to read due to lack of chains and stance and his mixup is worse. You are better off just blocking and punishing on reaction to an unsafe commit like 3c 5d, which he will have to do eventually unless he just wants to poke you with mids forever.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Manta]

I'm not sure, I'd have to test it. I'm busy in Ranked right now. I think I may be 360A'ing past the active frames and getting him once he's punishable.

The frame data just says low-body invuln

I asked the question on the terumi boards. The answer I got seemed pretty insistent that 6B was throw invulnerable.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I asked the question on the terumi boards. The answer I got seemed pretty insistent that 6B was throw invulnerable.

Just tested it, it's basically the same situation as Jin/Tao 6B. Even though you can't mash a throw, you can still definitely "reverse" it with a throw if you time it properly. You can even get 720. You just can't mash it.

So it's safe to say that it's throw-invuln on startup (not from F1 though)

Rough guess: Frame 8-to active is throw invuln

[Brice]

he is definitely throw invulnerable on his 6B.

very late in the startup and on active frames for sure.

they can't react to a tick throw and just mash 6B it won't beat command grabs. you'll only get hit if you were mashing grab and he finished his blockstring with it.

[Yohosie]

Fuck this matchup. jump cancelable 6A hitting crouching tager turns a frametrap character into a frametrap mixup character. 5C > 5D oki is literally unbeatable except with MTW, which he can Rapid Cancel and block. terumis pick nothing but black onslaught online. i want to die

[just some guy]

What the hell does Arcsys have against Tager? It's just absurd that they give a character an anti-air that catches Tager's lows. Can't even 2D in this matchup without getting caught by his 6A. It's just stupid at this point.