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floatwater

[CP] Ragna vs Kagura

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Discuss the Ragna vs Kagura matchup here:

MOST of the frame data from EX still applies to CP. It's a new character though so fresh info.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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Punishes (on block/reaction):

Combo Notes:

I or a Mod will edit OP as info comes. Contriboot.

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So what are people's general opinion of this matchup?

I haven't played that much of it and was just wondering

Sphere and flash kick seem annoying

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Bait the flash, Jump the sphere. If you space 2B enough it'll just whiff flash completely, think of it like a game of chicken.

As for neutral he has no real solid answer for in front of him and your normals are much better overall. If you keep them on the defensive they'll crack eventually. Also, you can jump out on a lot of the stuff he does.

So it's in your favor, but don't let him catch as he does big damage.

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Stay outside his 5C Range. If you give Kagura too much space, he can setup B orb which makes your job a lot harder. Once it is out, he can pretty much approach Ragna for free, and it becomes a guessing game of how you're going to dodge, and how he's going to intercept your action/approach. We don't want a guessing game, we use Ragna. We mostly need consistency and reliability. If you stay outside his 5C range, you can sometimes IAD j.C punish him if he tries to setup B fireball. Be careful, he can bait you with the A version. If he does happen to get the B fireball out, you have to use mind games to fool your opponent into thinking you'll do something predictable. Simply IADing over it might not suffice most of the time, as they'd try to knock you out of the air with 5D~C. Jumping over the fireball on the spot, just blocking it. Use these options based on what you think your opponent will expect from you.

Other than that the match up isn't too bad. Just don't stay too far. Our normals are better, so we pose more of a threat to Kagura when staying outside his C range. If you catch him on block with IAD j.C j.D, go straight into an overhead on landing. Best chance for high mixup since its guaranteed that he won't DP you. (Since he has to take his finger off 2 to block high).

Kagura's DP is a frame faster than Ragna's. Just sayin'

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Kagura is like the only character I can play against Ragna and not get mad, mostly because his DP is super easy to use against Ragna pressure on reaction. In general Kagura tends to be really good against yolo rushdown like what Ragna has due to have a really strong reversal and punish game. That said:

- ID beats literally everything. Kagura DP is no exception. If it clashes just keep mashing it, Kagura can't do his DP multiple times.

- I think Ragna's 5c and maybe even 5b is actually longer than Kagura's 5c. Kagura C pokes look long but he actually moves back a fair bit during the animation (which unfortunately doesn't help his hurtbox much) so you can play a pretty safe poke game against him. In general as long as you're not in his face he can't do much except DP or super.

- You can zone him out with Dead Spike. Kagura's movement options are hilariously bad, I like to joke that Tager is too mobile for Kagura to catch. It's almost true even.

- Don't do blood scythe or dead spike, it is super easy to react to those with a DP and they will lose clean, unlike with certain other DPs where they at least clash or trade.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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Have kind of a good example of what not to do followed by what to do, last week at our local I got bopped by respecting his tools too much and not going in and controlling the pace with 5B, then ShinSyn steps in after me and shows the correct way to do things: www.twitch.tv/ignitegl/b/502443981?t=56m45s

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I've had a hard time getting in and pressuring Kagura. I always have to fall back on playing footsies at a distance, like it's Tager or something. And his DP makes it hard to take advantage of your offense.

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If a person is DPing outside of wake up use DP safe blockstrings (plenty of those) you can safe jump his DP contrary to popular belief. 

In foosties his normals are much slower than yours take advantage. Also you can up back and punish a lot of his stuff. 

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Ragna actually wrecks Kagura really hard. Double jump Belial can blow straight through his attempts to zone you and Kagura can do absolutely nothing but DP once you put him in 5B range. Never use Blood Scythe or Gauntlet unless you're absolutely certain you can get away with it, both can get flash kicked on reaction.

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Closing the gap isn't really that hard, it's just a matter of being wearing of his C normals and Orbs. Like the above said, you can actually poke him out of a lot of his moves due to their slow startup.

 

When you pressuring him, you just gotta be aware of his DP and not get too greedy.

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Hilarious to point out that due to Kagura's air hitbox, you can follow up air 5D>Hells Fang>Follow up with 5A. Might be useful if you got a random air hit into Belial Edge and want to covert into more damage.

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If a person is DPing outside of wake up use DP safe blockstrings (plenty of those) you can safe jump his DP contrary to popular belief. 

In foosties his normals are much slower than yours take advantage. Also you can up back and punish a lot of his stuff.

What kind of DP safe blockstrings?

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What kind of DP safe blockstrings?

On IB, I think these are all the frame-tight gatlings Ragna has:

 

2A/2B>5B

5B>2C

5B/2C>5C

5B/2C/5C>3C (I find 3C IAD crossup pretty handy for baiting DPs in general)

5C>5D

 

And could 5C>2D at max range be safe against Kagura's DP on IB? I don't have him unlocked to test myself.

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Kagura's not gonna be able to IB 5C and flashkick, it's a charger.

Kagura can ib dp. You just slide from 1 to 2 then back to 1. You have to time the dp though.  Too early and it wont come out because your still in blockstun.

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