[CP] Relius Clover vs Bang Shishigami

[TD]

Discuss the Bang matchup here.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs His Tools

214A still tramples his nails though, so if he's in the air roughly half to a full screen away, he'll be forced into blocking, double jumping, or possibly getting CH if you let him just throw nails whenever. His nails are honestly more dangerous if used right on top of you since the only safe option is to block. Make him waste his nails since they're his only reliable way of getting in and are non-renewable. Plus, he can't do instant 4 seal combos if you make him waste all his nails.

-NecrotheReaper

Medium Range: Your Tools vs His Tools

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs His Tools

In The Air: Your Tools vs His Tools

The angle of Relius' 2C seems to not cover all of the angles of approach Bang can use in the air. Additionally, he can always throw nails to stuff 2C as well.

-Elochai

Offense

Your Offense:

His Offense:

With the lack of a reversal, if Bang is on the offense, you pretty much have to block everything and wait for him to fuck up so you can get a turn (I don't think his pressure has a lot of gaps, but I'm not sure). Backdashing kinda helps, but in the corner, Bang can catch the backdash with 2B or another long-reaching normal (I think 623B does as well?).

-Elochai

Defense

Your Defense:

His Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets

Match Summary

This MU seems bad for Relius. Bang's nails are a major issue IMO since they're really fast, and travel far distances. He can CH you on your summon just by throwing nails from various distances. This either forces Relius to use my IG by just using a special move, or trying to approach Bang on his lonesome. Geara Lugia is kinda useless in this MU too, I find it.

Overall, I'd say this is a momentum match. Whoever gets started first will usually win. However, it's comparatively harder for Relius to get started due to his options being limited to mostly controlling space at medium ranges

-Elochai

[Elochai]

This MU seems bad for Relius. Bang's nails are a major issue IMO since they're really fast, and travel far distances. He can CH you on your summon just by throwing nails from various distances. This either forces Relius to use my IG by just using a special move, or trying to approach Bang on his lonesome. Geara Lugia is kinda useless in this MU too, I find it.

With the lack of a reversal, if Bang is on the offense, you pretty much have to block everything and wait for him to fuck up so you can get a turn (I don't think his pressure has a lot of gaps, but I'm not sure). Backdashing kinda helps, but in the corner, Bang can catch the backdash with 2B or another long-reaching normal (I think 623B does as well?). The angle of Relius' 2C seems to not cover all of the angles of approach Bang can use in the air. Additionally, he can always throw nails to stuff 2C as well.

On Relius' offense, Bang is sort-of in a similar situation. There's not much he can do against well-played pressure. Guardpoint moves kind of become troublesome here, but I've been able to beat them with whatever > 5C. Using 6D should have the same effect and yield better results though.

Overall, I'd say this is a momentum match. Whoever gets started first will usually win. However, it's comparatively harder for Relius to get started due to his options being limited to mostly controlling space at medium ranges.

[NecroTheReaper]

214A still tramples his nails though, so if he's in the air roughly half to a full screen away, he'll be forced into blocking, double jumping, or possibly getting CH if you let him just throw nails whenever. His nails are honestly more dangerous if used right on top of you since the only safe option is to block. Make him waste his nails since they're his only reliable way of getting in and are non-renewable. Plus, he can't do instant 4 seal combos if you make him waste all his nails. His mixup is tricky though, mostly because of his crossups that he can feint with nails (by which I mean IAD forward, crossup, or jump nails)

[Myoro]

So I did something almost not to be believed in this fight, and it's somewhat relevant here. We're all familiar with Bang's new DD grab by now, it blows up jumping and zoning pretty good. What isn't common knowledge is: TUS BEATS IT!!! That's right if you zone using 214C and Ignis is behind you, his distortion will get blown up because Ignis will immediately slash him for extreme justice.

I haven't had the time to lab it for consistency, but it is at least possible.

[NecroTheReaper]

5A can beat out his grab DD on the ground and j.A can beat out his air grab DD if it becomes active beforehand. His grab will beat j.A out of startup though, since it has only 3 startup frames after superflash. I have yet to see any bang players use his grab (then again, there aren't a ton of bangs), so unless its being used for a gimmicky reset, you should almost always be able to beat out his grab with A

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, since I hadn't faught a lot of good bang's before now, I can't feel like this is one of our better MU's. It can be 5-5, but every time I play against him it feels more like a 6-4. Mostly because I cant keep him from just sayin "Adios" to ignis and superjumping the entire screen while throwin a dart here and there and beatin me right in the face. Then, a lot of our tools with ignis are screwed by autoguards, mostly there's a looooot of oki setups that I just cant make bang respect. By the time you have an ounce of respect, he's got 50 heat and 4 seals, so pretty much 3 reversals. I just cant deal with super jump height. How do you do it? I try and use 4D to knock em out, but it only works like 25% of the time, the rest of the time 4D just wiffs completely. Should you keep ignis near and just use 6D/j.xD till he's out of nails so if he tries to IAD approach you can actually AA him? Its annoying