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4Corners

Zappa v Baiken

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The only frame trap I have with ghosts right now is the corner one: 5k/p/whatever, cS, fS, 2HS, fS. I needs moar. D: How do you CH pokes like Ky's slide with 5k? I have a hard time using 5k as well as I do 6p. Never thought to use it for tick throws. As if I don't tick throw out of everything else against her.

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The only frame trap I have with ghosts right now is the corner one:

5k/p/whatever, cS, fS, 2HS, fS.

I needs moar. D:

How do you CH pokes like Ky's slide with 5k? I have a hard time using 5k as well as I do 6p.

Never thought to use it for tick throws. As if I don't tick throw out of everything else against her.

5K has a higher hitbox that won't hit ALL lows, but it will hit a large majority of them. Ky's stun dipper slide is tricky to hit, I usually just block the first hit, then backdash and throw if they don't cancel the second.

6P will go through an amazing amount of moves. It, in fact, will even defeat Dead on Time. Versus Baiken specifically, it's not as safe as a move because she'll just block and counter (Although, I like to bait counters then summon through them).

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Hrm... Never occurred to me to summon through counters. I normally just grab. That's tight. I've started stuffing a lot of Slayer's... stuff with 6p. That move is hot as hell.

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Hrm... Never occurred to me to summon through counters. I normally just grab. That's tight.

I've started stuffing a lot of Slayer's... stuff with 6p. That move is hot as hell.

Isn't it? I should write up a list of stuff to use against slayer, and which moves you need to look out for. Hm, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to do that for every character, but slayer is an annoying as hell matchup so lol.

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Okay, one of the local players in my crew plays baiken and he loves to just sit there the whole match after poking you one time and just sitting there. He has the patience of a fucking saint and its wierd, he waits for me to come in and than procedes with the counter, gotta love that right? I usually try and bait his counters than summon on him so he doesn't end up landing a blow because that always leads to me getting dustlooped. :sad: What are some stratagies to go on the offensive on the Baiken when need be? I know its an awful idea but it almost seems the be necessary on this guy. I f.s all day long and than proceed for the instant raoh but thats all ive got besides throwing him all day long and setting up pressure strings and unblockables with my dog. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :yaaay:

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It seems you have the right idea. Throw him alot until he becomes scared of that. Never do long block stings. Do a few pokes and then stop. You gotta bait those counters. Baiken's S counter is unsafe on block unless she FRC's it. You can also 6P it. Dog: Dog is good mostly because of the 2 unblockable setups you have to get through Baiken's guard. Also you can be a little more aggressive if you can strategically let the dog get hit by any of Baiken's counters. This will let you get in for free and combo into summon for more orbs. Understand if you have the life lead and you both are on opposite sides of the screen. You don't have to go to Baiken. Baiken has to come to you. And you DO want that. Believe me. Also throwing is your friend. Ghosts: Now you can play Baiken's game and turtle. Throw ghosts from a safe distance so she doesn't HS counter you. Actually ghost throws are a good way to bait he HS counter. If you throw a ghosts from a distance (or if you FRC them at a closer distance) you will recover before it hits her. If you anticipate her doing a HS counter you can jump up and mash jP to knock her out of it, or you can airthrow her. The former of course is easier to do. Other than that poke safe and don't do long block strings. Also when attacking her don't forget to do high low mixups. You have the ghost's 6HS. At other times you can mix that up with 2K or 2S. Throwing is your friend. Sword: If you poke with the max range of the sword you won't have too much to worry about. Just be ready to block HS counters. You can poke from a distance to keep her at bay. Just keeps the blocks strings short and sweet. Go for high low mixups. You have 6HS as your overheard and 2K and 2S as your lows. Also 623HS is great if you can do it on reaction to Baiken's S and HS counters. Throwing is your friend. Raoh: Is tricky. As long as Baiken blocks its hard to hit her since Raoh's mixup game sucks. Poke from a distance with 2S, 5S, 5HS, or 6HS, and try to bait a HS counter from Baiken so you can upper cut it. 5D is fast so you can hopefully get her with that. It also has frame advantage so you're safe if she blocks it. If you can get a throw great.

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Raoh: Is tricky. As long as Baiken blocks its hard to hit her since Raoh's mixup game sucks. Poke from a distance with 2S, 5S, 5HS, or 6HS, and try to bait a HS counter from Baiken so you can upper cut it. 5D is fast so you can hopefully get her with that. It also has frame advantage so you're safe if she blocks it. If you can get a throw great.

The best thing to do here is throw considering most people automatically turtle when Raoh is out and Baiken is all about blocking for counter-attack. Toss her into a wall, Edguy until fin.

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It seems you have the right idea. Throw him alot until he becomes scared of that. Never do long block stings. Do a few pokes and then stop. You gotta bait those counters. Baiken's S counter is unsafe on block unless she FRC's it. You can also 6P it.

Dog: Dog is good mostly because of the 2 unblockable setups you have to get through Baiken's guard. Also you can be a little more aggressive if you can strategically let the dog get hit by any of Baiken's counters. This will let you get in for free and combo into summon for more orbs. Understand if you have the life lead and you both are on opposite sides of the screen. You don't have to go to Baiken. Baiken has to come to you. And you DO want that. Believe me. Also throwing is your friend.

Ghosts: Now you can play Baiken's game and turtle. Throw ghosts from a safe distance so she doesn't HS counter you. Actually ghost throws are a good way to bait he HS counter. If you throw a ghosts from a distance (or if you FRC them at a closer distance) you will recover before it hits her. If you anticipate her doing a HS counter you can jump up and mash jP to knock her out of it, or you can airthrow her. The former of course is easier to do. Other than that poke safe and don't do long block strings. Also when attacking her don't forget to do high low mixups. You have the ghost's 6HS. At other times you can mix that up with 2K or 2S. Throwing is your friend.

Sword: If you poke with the max range of the sword you won't have too much to worry about. Just be ready to block HS counters. You can poke from a distance to keep her at bay. Just keeps the blocks strings short and sweet. Go for high low mixups. You have 6HS as your overheard and 2K and 2S as your lows. Also 623HS is great if you can do it on reaction to Baiken's S and HS counters. Throwing is your friend.

Raoh: Is tricky. As long as Baiken blocks its hard to hit her since Raoh's mixup game sucks. Poke from a distance with 2S, 5S, 5HS, or 6HS, and try to bait a HS counter from Baiken so you can upper cut it. 5D is fast so you can hopefully get her with that. It also has frame advantage so you're safe if she blocks it. If you can get a throw great.

Thank you so much for the info on the sword! It is by far my best summon and i really needed some help on that one the most. all i did was basically 2s and 41236hs all day but knowing that the 634hs can counter through her counters that will seriously help my sword game.

:yaaay:

As for raoh that is seriously useful to know that i have the frame advantage for the 5d, he is terrible at blocking mix ups so im sure i can pull that one on him.

:yaaay:

Thanks for the info zoogstin, you are very wise. This should seriously help me against those dreaded counters.

:eng101:

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A good option is to DO blockstrings, but do completely 'safe' blockstrings: Always do moves that can reversal into a high priority move or a reversal if need be. If you're gonna do a very risky move, i.e. sword 5HS, make sure you have the tension to cancel it and DP to punish any counter attempt they might try. It may sound inefficient to do it this way, but actually, it works very well. One, it will always net some damage and hopefully some orbs. Two, it will often frustrate your opponent and cause them to do stupid things in retaliation. Three, Even if you run out of tension, if your clever, you can still bait and punish. Spamming 5P with the ghosts, for instance, is a great way to annoy them and encourage them to counter. Even if they don't do a counter, you still have the advantage because your controlling the match, and that's the entire point: If you have all the options, they have none. Baiken's counters are her most formidable aspect by far, but another thing to look out for is her tatami mat and how she can set up great damaging combos with them. Unfortunately your best option is to block or avoid them entirely, although it's always important to keep in mind that they will dissappear the frame that baiken is hit, so if you think you can hit her, do it. The trick is to not become obviously aggressive and get counter punished for it.

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A good option is to DO blockstrings, but do completely 'safe' blockstrings: Always do moves that can reversal into a high priority move or a reversal if need be. If you're gonna do a very risky move, i.e. sword 5HS, make sure you have the tension to cancel it and DP to punish any counter attempt they might try.

It may sound inefficient to do it this way, but actually, it works very well. One, it will always net some damage and hopefully some orbs. Two, it will often frustrate your opponent and cause them to do stupid things in retaliation. Three, Even if you run out of tension, if your clever, you can still bait and punish. Spamming 5P with the ghosts, for instance, is a great way to annoy them and encourage them to counter. Even if they don't do a counter, you still have the advantage because your controlling the match, and that's the entire point: If you have all the options, they have none.

Baiken's counters are her most formidable aspect by far, but another thing to look out for is her tatami mat and how she can set up great damaging combos with them. Unfortunately your best option is to block or avoid them entirely, although it's always important to keep in mind that they will dissappear the frame that baiken is hit, so if you think you can hit her, do it. The trick is to not become obviously aggressive and get counter punished for it.

ahh i see, so im assuming that i could also throw out some really tight blockstrings with the dogs 5d correct?

:yaaay:

I'm throwing in a ton of matches today against that pesky baiken so hopefully i leave him shaking in his boots.

:yaaay:

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For the ghosts, i like using the S version of the toss, giving it a few seconds to advance towards the baiken, and then firing the HS toss. Most baikens will not be able to resist countering the S toss with the leaping air counter, which smacks them right in the face with the HS toss. I know, not the most groundbreaking strategy, but pretty funny to see.

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For the ghosts, i like using the S version of the toss, giving it a few seconds to advance towards the baiken, and then firing the HS toss. Most baikens will not be able to resist countering the S toss with the leaping air counter, which smacks them right in the face with the HS toss. I know, not the most groundbreaking strategy, but pretty funny to see.

Amen to that man, that makes my friend so mad.

:yaaay:

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