[CP] The Critique My Hakumen Thread

[Moblin]

Hmm the thing that stands out the most watching the video is that you didn't finish a lot of combos or did a lot of non-optimal combos. There were many rounds that you could have won or won sooner if you did a more damaging combo. After blocking Litchi's CT 3C beats out almost everything. When she sends the staff out it's really easy to catch it with 5D for extra meter and if she's not careful it can catch her if she follows the staff in. Also TK hotaru on wake up is pretty dangerous if they hit their meaty timing right you'll just get it, if they just do any crouching normal even if they don't hit the right timing it will just whiff over them anyway leaving you open. There's more stuff, but this is just off the top of my head when watching through the recording.

Yeah, you're definitely right about the combo consistency. I'll probably be picking up an ASUS monitor soon - so I can practice combos at home that will be no different from tournament combos. I'll try doing 3c after the CT as well, but it doesn't seem very unsafe on block at +0.

What do you(Spark or other Hakumens) think about the drawbacks of standing still to 5d the flying staff? When watching some Hakumens in this matchup, they tend to opt for lots of movement in the neutral game and blocking/cutting the staff when they get the chance, and coming off as more unpredictable as well. Do you think this is worth the trade-off of simple, stationary meter gain with 5d? Standing still to 5d it still lets her AD in on you with her staff during the wind-down of the move.

If we get a good discussion of this going we can definitely copy any relevant Litchi vs. Haku info to the matchup thread, or just continue the discussion there.

Wake-up Hotaru and Hotaru during pressure is definitely an ancient relic from previous games that I just can't shake the habit of doing yet xD

edit: Also thank you Spark for the analysis. I feel like getting advice from you now leaves me with no excuse to keep losing

[Schneider-X]

This was a match in Loser's finals at a local tournament of ours, we also lost count so that's why we play more than a best 3/5 match set. Please let me know what I should work on since he very obviously exploited my bad tendency to throw during pauses in pressure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psEkk8mibOM

[Moblin]

Jin pressure is so hard to deal with. You're obviously much better than me but as an observer I can definitely suggest some things that I've seen better Hakumens than me do.

Here are some things you could try.

That jin really liked using DP's on wakeup. He had a tendency to especially use them in the corner. If you know he's going to neutral tech after you knock him down, jump with barrier on his wakeup and come down with a J.b right before you hit the ground. You'll barrier block if he DP's and hit his guard if he doesn't. If he starts calling this out and uses an Anti-air on wakeup, replace J.b with Agito.

When you guys are doing neutral footsies with J.C, and you have a lot of meter, kishuu works wonders. Empty back hop or neutral hop --> kishuu, enma catches a lot of people off guard and is safe on block, and low profiles under Jin's j.c and a lot of his normals as well. Especially when he likes jump > J.C a ton.

[OmnixTSC]

Empty back hop or neutral hop --> kishuu, enma catches a lot of people off guard and is safe on block, and low profiles under Jin's j.c and a lot of his normals as well.

When is enma ever safe on block? You don't have to IB enma to punish it with it being -19. It has 31 frames of recovery and only 18 frames of blockstun (according to DL wiki). I do think that enma is an okay anti-air option at neutral, but you have to kind of yomi with it.

One thing I noticed for both Moblin and Shneider is a lack of combo efficiency. It really hurts your play when you can't pick up off of some starters or hit as hard as you should. Something to work on, but I know you guys can get the hang of it.

[toanenadiz]

You can jump cancel it on block.

[OmnixTSC]

You can jump cancel it on block.

Oh, that's right. I always forget about that b/c Hakumen players always press a button afterwards and get CH (even the JP players do). I need to remember that I can just jump and barrier after a failed enma, though I'd rather just not go for it in most cases.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Since you're more than likely going to be jump cancelling Enma anyway off a confirm, I almost always jump cancel it even on block. Agito works wonders on this case, they try to punish *BAM*.

[Moblin]

Yeah sorry should have been more clear. With the amazing amount of meter gain that Hakumen has in CP, he can afford to use 2 stars to try a few Yomi enmas in neutral. Usually they just block it and then oh well. But the risk vs. reward is usually worth it in my experience. Especially with how easy it is to bait bursts on an enma combo.

If they block it, sometimes I won't jump cancel, wait a split second, and renka. Usually catches people because they are trained to expect Hakumen to be in the air after a blocked Enma.

I am definitely going to work on my combo execution more...

[Koopa_Klawz]

Hey guys. I was wondering if any of you were interested in a critique stream where I stream replays and you guys can give info/advice as you watch?

[iNitoken]

Hey guys new to Dustloop and a Hakumen player. Pretty much asking for your opinions on my play style and what i can do to improve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeH80MF92c

[mAc Chaos]

Master your punishes. You had three golden opportunities to absolutely murder him but you just 2A'd him instead.

[OmnixTSC]

Hey guys new to Dustloop and a Hakumen player. Pretty much asking for your opinions on my play style and what i can do to improve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeH80MF92c

First off, you need to learn your combo routes. As mac said, there were times where you could have done a lot of damage and instead went for something minimalistic or didn't confirm the hit at all.

Try to avoid using j.2C as much as you do. It gets beats really easily during the air-to-air game. Also, avoid using j.C when you're really close to your opponent. Don't forget that you have other air normals like j.A and j.B. They are active much earlier than your C normals and can get the job done for both the air-to-air game and the air-to-ground game.

Hmm...the only other thing I can see is that you have a habit of jumping. Try to avoid jumping so much and stick to the ground. A player that recognizes your airborne habits will either anti-air you all day or meet you in the air with an air throw. Use a hop, Kishuu, or Enma from time to time in order to close the gap while staying grounded. You'll have less issues with landing a hit if you can vary your pressure, balancing it between the air and ground.

Most of the hits you and your opponent landed came purely from the two of you flailing at one another. Slow it down a bit, as you don't always have to press a button. Sometimes it's better to just block and see what your opponent will go for.

I think that's about all I noticed from that video. If you have more, be sure to post it if you want some extra feedback :x

[Kirnupiima]

Master your punishes. You had three golden opportunities to absolutely murder him but you just 2A'd him instead.

Would you point the times in the video for another new player please? I don't yet recognize the punish times.

edit: 1:50, 1:57, 2:11 and a follow-up for 2:58 D. (yosh, I can do this!)

[Soviet Bear]

Hey guys new to Dustloop and a Hakumen player. Pretty much asking for your opinions on my play style and what i can do to improve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeH80MF92c

Definitely too much jumping around. Also, use A and B moves during jumping, not just C moves.

[Soviet Bear]

Uploaded a few more matches for feedback. It's been less than a month since I started learning how to play an arcade stick, so if anything looks like a mis-input (like a 5C > 5C > 5C instead of 5C > Zantetsu > stuff), it likely is. I'd appreciate feedback on how to actually wake-up properly, because I seem to crumble whenever I'm in that situation and I can't figure out what to do exactly. I've also taken to heart the previous advice on learning combos, but I don't really show them up in these videos. Any other notes are also welcome, even if it's "you still need to learn X, like I mentioned last time".

VS Kagura

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9hYMiP-XSI

VS Ragna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dLCuWX6Ko8

VS Jin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ARGkhOFfwI

[excelence]

K, i'll try ... I also just learning Hakumen not to long ago, so please correct me if i'm wrong.

1. Work on neutral, Shippu on neutral is bad idea. walk, dashing, iad, jumping and Kishu with Hakumen is good.

2. Shippu can be follow up with other special, use it.

3. Play without D button ... there's other button that u can press on neutraling / wakeup... 5a/2a/6b is a good moves.

4. j2a/j.2c is really good against Projectile.

[OmnixTSC]

3. Play without D button ... there's other button that u can press on neutraling / wakeup... 5a/2a/6b is a good moves.

The only other option you should be relying on for your wake-up is...blocking. 5A/2A aren't too great on wake-up, especially if your opponent meaties you properly. You should never be using 6B on wake-up. Ever. 2D is fine in some scenarios (especially against projectile oki), and 5D should be used only for hard call outs. So your tools on wake-up (unless you're punishing something) should primarily be blocking/barrier blocking, 2D , 5D , Yukikaze and...I don't know, sometimes Hotaru works. Hotaru isn't something you should be trying to do on wake-up unless you're trying to deal with something specific. It loses to a lot of options now.

[excelence]

Well dunno about you, but imo 6b is pretty good at reversal, it has low invul from 1st frame, it destroy a lot of 2a meaty and those who try to low profiling Hotaru, makes guessing games a lot simpler.

[mAc Chaos]

I do that to troll but unless you're really ballsy it's a bad idea. All they have to do is 5A instead, which hits Hakumen crouching.

[Moblin]

Hotaru is not good to use against a smart opponent on wake-up anymore.

A meaty will beat it clean before you can Tiger knee it.

If they just sit there and wait to hit you after you tech, it's a free punish after hotaru whiffs. And people like doing this already to bait a counter.

Use hotaru to call out your hard reads. If you have them in the corner and you think they'll jump, hotaru. If they reaaaally like to airdash in on you, hop ---> hotaru them in the face on prediction.

Hotaru leads to so much damage that I feel it's worth it to figure out when and how to hit with it, even after its nerfs. Most people don't have the reaction time/presence of mind to insta-burst a sudden hotaru hit, and it gets you so much damage to AD ---> OD confirm it at any stage of the match.

@soviet:

Learn a better combo from CH Agito, since you seem to get that a lot in matches. Rather than 5c, 3c try something like

Agito CH, j.b, land, 5C > kishuu > 2C BnB loop

or

Agito CH, j.b, land, 5C > Zantestsu devastation

[excelence]

I do that to troll but unless you're really ballsy it's a bad idea. All they have to do is 5A instead, which hits Hakumen crouching.

Yea and for those 5a, u can Hotaru like i've said... anyway u can treat it the same as DP it's hit or miss. welp

[Moblin]

Yea and for those 5a, u can Hotaru like i've said... anyway u can treat it the same as DP it's hit or miss. welp

That's a good idea, but if they meaty the 5a it will hit you in your jumping frames before you can hotaru. It takes about 7 frames to jump.

[mAc Chaos]

Hotaru gets beat by 5A too. You'll never get a chance to throw it out.

But yeah if you want to try to guess your way out then knock yourself out with 6B or 2D or Yukikaze, etc. Hotaru is not a good one for that anymore.

[Soviet Bear]

@soviet:

Learn a better combo from CH Agito, since you seem to get that a lot in matches. Rather than 5c, 3c try something like

Agito CH, j.b, land, 5C > kishuu > 2C BnB loop

or

Agito CH, j.b, land, 5C > Zantestsu devastation

That didn't cross my mind at all for some reason. Thanks!

As for improving wake-up, what I'm getting from all these posts is that Hotaru isn't as good as it used to be, so it's either guarding or playing guessing game with counters and 6B? I see different people have different experiences with this, so I'll experiment a bit and see what can work. But blocking+counter throws should be reliable, right?

[excelence]

@mAc : K, i'll take note on that

@Soviet : Blocking & Grab works, but watch out on TRM setup.