Negative Edging for wake-up.

[4Corners]

So, I had this idea halfassed sometime last week, and it's probably going to sound retarded, but I'd like anyone that has more reliable technicals to try this out for me. Zappa has very limited options on wake-up, due to how random he can be after getting hit. What could be a great 236p to beat out virtually anything thrown at you can instead become a very laggy ghost toss, that puts you into CH state for far too long. Or, it can end up being absolutely nothing, if you get the sword or dog. Now, I'm kind of stubborn, so I've been playing around with a couple ideas. The first has to do with negative edging and haunt confirming, of a sort. What you do is start to buffer the 236p on wake-up, and, if you have no ghosts, release the p button on full wake-up. Problem being, I think that you don't receive the haunt until invincibility frames are all gone. If anyone knows about this for sure, I'd really appreciate information. The second one is to buffer 236p, then release it right as it would be able to work for naked, while double-tapping with S, FD, or something like that, just in case it ends up being sword or dog (to override the non-existant super). There's still the problem of the p toss, and my own inability to execute it makes me wonder if it is due to my own terrible technicals, or the fact that it just can't be done. Ideas? Opinions? Obviously, blocking is still his single best option below 50%, but I want to have something more going on wake-up than that, if possible.

[Phrekwenci]

Don't get knocked down, problem solved! Ok seriously, I figured this is a reason why he has one of the best backdashes in the game. Backdash on wakeup, and by the time you finish the dash, you should know if you have anything. In terms of NegEdge I've never used it and I don't deal with frame data so I wouldn't know about testing it either.

[Chomite]

There is no way to get around Ghost throw...So I just do this: 6236P+HS - (FRC) If naked, gets centipedes. If sword, gets upper. If dog...OTL. If ghost, you get HS throw instead of P throw which is hell a lot better than getting P throw and if you want to make it safe, you can FRC that after 10 frame. But really, I just guard on wake-up.

[4Corners]

Can you backdash while you're still invul, or should I still worry about meaties? Either way, sounds like a valid option. Chomite, that's the kinda stuff I was looking for. That's hella hot. Why not combine a 5d in there, to have the dog bite or sumdat? Either way, I'm looking forward to trying both of these.

[Oiboi]

The way wakeup works is that everyone has a certain amount of frames in their wakeup. Normally, once a hitbox is 'active' on wakeup, it's during the end of the standing up animation, however, this ALWAYS has full invul for every character. If you do not cancel, it's somewhere around 11 frames of invul (once the hitbox is active I mean). However, if you cancel it, you only have 9 frames of invul; This is what "Reversal" Means. Zappa's backdash has 9 frames of invul. 9+10=19 frames of invul, just one frame more than if you got a summon move. In this case, it takes some intuition to know if your opponent will attempt a move that can tradehit with summon, because if you backdash it will simply hit you regardless, with no hit to trade. This is still the second best option because of this, since block will keep you from getting hit at all while backdash can help to escape pressure. Again, you have to have your timing perfect and try to figure out how your opponent will move and attack. Attempting a 'safe' way to attempt a summon or dog attack, sword move, or ghost toss isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it's a much less safe way to wakeup. But this is zappa, to hell with safe crap, right? Normally I can get a summon if I time the reversal properly, which is odd since it's supposed to be completely random. There is an oddly high chance of getting a summon on wakeup, but if you rely on it way too much you'll end up losing a match because you got the ghost.

[4r5]

wait, what? Maybe I misread, but last I checked it's 1 frame of invulnerability on wakeup, across the board.

[Oiboi]

wait, what? Maybe I misread, but last I checked it's 1 frame of invulnerability on wakeup, across the board.

1 Frame? It's been a while since I checked so I'm probably the wrong one here. My point is, Backdash adds invul frames to the standard wakeup 'can't be hit' thing (during the entire standing up animation, plus the minor amount of invul/time to block once they're actually standing), allowing you to get around a lot of things. I'll have to go read up to remember I guess.

[Dangief]

All backdash is is a move with invincible frames in the beginning. So you time a backdash on the first frame. Then the backdash is invincible. Simple. It just so happens that Zappa's backdash is one of the top 3 in the game (after Slayer and Pot). But it does still have that one vulnerable frame, so it isn't foolproof.

[4Corners]

Noice. Thanks, guys. It never even occurred to me to backdash on wake-up. Imma try to get vids up sometime soon of me playing some people at my level, as well as Tage*Proto. While on the subject, what Zappas should I watch?

[Zoogstin]

Eki-chan Imo Abe Jigoku Ningyu They're great Zappa's.

[Chomite]

Nang-In is back on the town (but he quitted?...dunno). He is uploading his matches on youtube so check that shit out. I accidently erased all of his matches (actually all my vids) that I uploaded so I was going D: but he is kindly uploading them for us :D

[Zoogstin]

sweet!! He was very fun to watch.

[4Corners]

So, Eki-chan and Nang In are my favourites to watch currently. I don't see the hype behind Abe, though. He looks slow, is boring to watch, and usually loses. D:

[Ankh]

Nang-In is a beast when it comes to ghost lockdown and the use of the Dog's 4D>D. Eki-Chan is just a great Zappa overall. They both are really.