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Kiba

[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi Changes and Discussion

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I s'ppose I better start this off now.

I'm gonna be listing the confirmed changes for Tsubaki in the update and as more come along I can sort it categorise it by buffs and nerfs.

  • If you manage to find some information, feel free to post it with the source.
  • This is not a wishlist thread. Any of that talk will result in an infraction.
  • This is not a wishlist thread. Any of that talk will result in an infraction.
  • This is not a wishlist thread. Any of that talk will result in an infraction.


    List of Changes

    • Backdash - Duration increased from 20 to 22 frames.
    • Negative penalty resistance - Increased from 2 to 4.
    • 6A – Can no longer be Emergency Teched on hit. Knocks down on aerial hit.
    • 6C – Can be canceled on block. If canceled on block, no hit stop occurs for the opponent. Now -18 on block (rather than -12).
    • 3CC - Pulls in the enemy a little closer on counter-hit.
    • D Sanctus Aequum (236D) - Now always blows the enemy away forward on aerial hit.
    • Lux Macto ([4]6C/D) – Command changed from [4]6C/D to 421A/D. Startup of A version reduced from 27 to 25 frames, overall duration reduced from 56 to 54 frames. The projectile also accelerates faster.
    • All Macto Maledictis (214214D) D Attacks – SMP-level increased from 1 to 2.
    • D Sanctum Decus (22D) during Macto Maledictis (214214D) - If Macto Maledictis ends while Sanctum Decus is being charged, you'll get the mugen version.
    • Overdrive D Version Confutatis Maledictis (236236D) – Start-up slightly modified. Now has a different animation after it hits; The last hit now blows the enemy away forward.
    • Full list of changes

      Original Source

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Tsubaki

6A:Can no longer be Emergency Teched on hit. Wasn't this only on air hit? in any case if that's what it means then does this mean we can use 6A for knockdown on air targets to set up oki or something?

6C: Moved the additional hitstop from a blocking opponent, can no be canceled on block No clue if that typo is supposed to be "not" or "now"...but hopefully the latter. Google translating the change lists it as "made possible cancellation" so I'm going to say it means it's now special cancellable on block

Judgement Technique: Darkness Piercing Light: Command is now 421A or 421D. The projectile speed of the A version is now faster. Much needed change

All Macto Maledictis D Attacks: Strengthened the Same Move Proration for all attacks. RIP double [4]6D > 236D combos

Overdrive D Version Confutatis Maledictis: Now has a different animation after it hits. Now hits the opponent forward. Doesn't matter much

Probably not the only changes, and after seeing the 6C change is actually a buff, these changes aren't too bad so far. :V

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I guess they noticed that jump cancel trick to 6C and decided that if it's going to be possible to special cancel for a player with good execution it might just as well be special cancel able for any one.

What does the hitstop change mean? I don't really see what difference it would make?

I would personally I preferred 41236X for the projectile as I am bad at doing DP motions but I can see that it's objectively better with the 421X input. Specially when you want to follow it up with 236D quickly after.

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6C isn't buffed, 6c is all around nerfed.

the removal of hitstop is basically the same as removal of blockstun. You will get hit out of JC easier. expect to get hit out of j.A too.

Special canceling 6C on block is close to worthless, since if you wanted to special cancel you could anyway. Instead, now you can't do anything like input mugen to get an autoconfirm.

being able to crush trigger after 6c would be potentially useful. but I don't think it is worth it.

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6C isn't buffed, 6c is all around nerfed.

the removal of hitstop is basically the same as removal of blockstun. You will get hit out of JC easier. expect to get hit out of j.A too.

The translation doesn't say removed, it says moved. Maybe it's translated wrongly or something as moving does not make much sense.

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that's a minor mistake among other minor mistakes.

Projectile is probably nerfed, despite not having to deal with it randomly coming out. Projectile faster = won't be able to do anything with it, probably. Projectile faster = probably harder to set up projectile oki with it, maybe impossible.

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6C isn't buffed, 6c is all around nerfed.

the removal of hitstop is basically the same as removal of blockstun. You will get hit out of JC easier. expect to get hit out of j.A too.

Special canceling 6C on block is close to worthless, since if you wanted to special cancel you could anyway. Instead, now you can't do anything like input mugen to get an autoconfirm.

being able to crush trigger after 6c would be potentially useful. but I don't think it is worth it.

Hitstop is just the game freezing on hit, it doesn't change the blockstun. So it doesn't change anything actually. Or it might prevent 6C SMP combos, which would be another nerf.

Those changes are...worthless tbh.

What I only see is the nerf of our best combo. The fireball becoming a back DP was a given as giving a charge to a rushdown character was retarded to begin with.

6A """buff""" is worthless. It's to prevent tech from a 6A anti air, but it, like, never ever happens.

236236D will keep the opponent in the corner. But who uses it if it's not to kill the opponent anyway?

Arcsys obviously doesn't play the same game as us

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hitstop that only applies on the opponent is close to, if not indistinguishable from blockstun. It's basically the loss of probably 3 or 4 frames of blockstun.

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I fail to see how hitstop has any influence on blockstun.

In my vocabulary, a hitstop completely freezes the game frames, and the blockstun is only applied after the game has "resumed". But i could be wrong.

Anyway if they really nerfed it, fuck them.

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there's hitstop that is applied to the opponent only. All CHs have varying degrees of hitstop. CH hitstop is why CH 5b> 6C is a combo.

6C had opponent only hitstop applied on guard. This is why 6C>JD>JA frame traps. This is why 6C>JD>JC beats a good chunk of the slower anti airs in the game (including our own).

The patch notes specifically note the removal of hitstop on guard.

Expand your vocabulary, I guess.

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No real damage buff

No normal moves buff

Nerfs that could make our offense even worse?

Arcsys what the hell?

Weren't you supposed to buff low-middle tiers?

Oh, but we got a dandy new animation for our distortion...

Well at least we still have some tools to work with

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Right.

6A – Can no longer be Emergency Teched on hit.

This is nice. It means we could combo in case we get an air hit on a opponent, but now, will it be useful mid combo? We'll have to see, but it also means we may have lost our 6A setups (if anyone was using those).

6C – Moved the additional hitstop from a blocking opponent, can no be canceled on block.

6C blockstun gone as Errol said means no more playing around with 6C > j.D > j.A/B/C, you're gonna get poked out of that. It also means we're most likely going to get poked out of 6C > Blade super. No more gimmicky stuff. However, because it's now special cancellable on block, we can do 6C > Command grab with the hitstop removed. 6C > CT seems cool but seems ballsy due to the lack of blockstun and long startup of CT. Anyway, I'm looking forward to 6C > Command grab. I guess they mainly want us to use 6C for combo filler?

Judgement Technique – Darkness Piercing Light – Command is now 421A or 421D. The projectile speed of the A version is now faster.

A projectile being faster is definitely better for neutral gameplay The fact that it's no longer a charge command means we'll be using it a little more often, which is something I'm looking forward to. However, as Errol said it could hurt our grounded oki. Not sure how much more faster it is, but we'll have to wait and see I guess. Sounds like we'd have to slightly delay the projectile if we want to keep the oki. If anything, we still have j.236A oki. I'm glad they used 421A and not HCFA, imagine, we could get accidental 6A in neutral! 421A doesn't clash with anything.

All Macto Maledictis D Attacks – Strengthened the Same Move Proration for all attacks.

Not surprised about this at all haha. It speaks for itself. Restricted mugen combos, and it sounds like going for double Psycho Crusher combos will really kill her combo. Guess they really want you to mix what you use in mugen.

Overdrive D Version Confutatis Maledictis – Now has a different animation after it hits and hits the opponent forward.

Ohh that's nice, at least this way if the DD doesn't kill, we'll still have our oki and not knock them away. I found that kinda annoying. Sometimes I'd midjusge whether it'll kill or not and when I'm wrong I have to work my way back in, but it's a nice little change.

Overall I'm, pretty content with her changes. Anyway all of this is speculation, let's see what happens!

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So, wait. Is the projectile change to the air or the ground? Because A and D are used for the air projectile, while C and D are used for the ground. I'm all for getting rid of charge moves (I'm just not a fan of them), but not so much about changing a quarter circle into a dp motion.

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Wait, so 6C can't be jump cancelled? Fml.

Nah it's still jump cancellable.

So, wait. Is the projectile change to the air or the ground? Because A and D are used for the air projectile, while C and D are used for the ground. I'm all for getting rid of charge moves (I'm just not a fan of them), but not so much about changing a quarter circle into a dp motion.

Projectile change is to the ground.

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I sure hope they didn't remove this. It will be jump/special cancellable I guess.

The removal of a few blockstun frames won't work with the command grab. 6C is still a level 5 move, so the blockstun is huge. If you cancel by the command throw, it will always go for purple throw, unless they reduce drastically the blockstun.

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Does this mean we can cancel 6C into 5D/2D? That would be nice, but I'm guessing no.

Either I'm not that familiar with the BB lingo (which I'm not), or these change notes seem kind of cryptic (probably due to translation issues).

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Does this mean we can cancel 6C into 5D/2D? That would be nice, but I'm guessing no.

Oh that could be really great indeed. But probably nope :(

Kiba : I hope it will work. But the barrier will still deny this mixup...

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Does this mean we can cancel 6C into 5D/2D? That would be nice, but I'm guessing no.

6C drive cancellable? Interesting...that'll be pretty cool! There isn't any specifics to the 6C cancel so it's not something that's totally out of the window.

Kiba : I hope it will work. But the barrier will still deny this mixup...

Exactly. If she tries to IAD j.C against opponent, well anti airing Tsubaki just became even easier!

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One huge improvement is the global increase of P1 on air moves.

This will be a great buff for Tsubaki specially, since j.CC is a legit mixup and often works. It's a pretty bad starter in BBCP1, i'm happy they are buffing it.

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One huge improvement is the global increase of P1 on air moves.

This will be a great buff for Tsubaki specially, since j.CC is a legit mixup and often works. It's a pretty bad starter in BBCP1, i'm happy they are buffing it.

Errol stated that was a mistranslation.

The P1 of all jump moves has been nerfed. On a side note j.CC isn't pretty bad at all!

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So it might be a little premature to conclude that the hitstop change screws up the ability to do 6C > jc > j.D > j.A as a frame trap. Running the math, it looks like:

6C = 20 frames blockstun (discounting any hitstop shenanigans)

4 frames jump startup

14 frames of j.D

7 frames j.A startup

4+14+7=25

25-20=5 frames?

Would theoretically trade with 5 frame jabs if done as fast as possible and if they were super mashy. OTOH, using j.C will now lose to pretty much any anti-air that has any head invulnerability to speak of.

Still, not seeing a lot of really exciting stuff here. The only good thing I'm really taking from this is that it's going to be easier to do 6C > Command grab. Well, and the once in a blue moon when 6A hits someone trying to jump out, you'll actually be able to combo off it, which is nice, I guess. The 6A change will break 6A oki setups, but no one does those in CP, as far as I can tell. I think the worst change here is the SMP in mugen. Yeah, as if us actually being able to do dangerous damage by using 50 meter, overdrive and at least one charge was super broken.

What's the source on these changes anyway? Is this stuff straight from the "horse's mouth" or are we looking at random crap people 'discovered' ala a loktest?

Thanks for the 'buffs' Arc Sys, you're doing a bangup job as usual.

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So, wait. Is the projectile change to the air or the ground? Because A and D are used for the air projectile, while C and D are used for the ground. I'm all for getting rid of charge moves (I'm just not a fan of them), but not so much about changing a quarter circle into a dp motion.

Looks like the changed the button as well to A, makes sense to have both air and ground projectile on the same button.

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