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Whimsikal

Newbie Chie here - Some questions

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I see, but the incoming attack has to connect within the first 7 frames (aka startup), right?

 

Whoopsie, looked at the frame data again and NOW I get, what you were saying! So I got 21 fames to catch the attack?

 

It's probably closer to 1~10 frames to catch the attack and 10~15 frames of vulnerability. DP's are supposed to be very unsafe if predicted (Or else how broken would an invincible move that you could throw out at any time be?)

 

Ether way it's easy to time, just throw it out when you're certain the enemy will attack, or when the opponent is already attacking, and don't let yourself get called out or tricked.

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Haha, okay, I will play around with it a little! :) Thanks!

 

Trying this right now:

 

All you need to do is double-jump. Fatal C end j.BB j.C (double jump) j.BB j.C 236D.

What is the 236D at the end good for? To get away? Because I don't see any way to hit the enemy with this :D The rest works flawless though :) The C version works for me, so I guess I will stick to that :D

 

Never mind, just did it :D

 

Okay, another question about this: What's a good thing to do, when you finished the combo? I always block immediately, but I guess there are better things to do :D

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Doesn't Chie's sweep 5D lose to 5f jabs? It's not quite as good as Yu's in that respect.

No, it doesn't lose to five frame 5A's if you do it right.

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No, it doesn't lose to five frame 5A's if you do it right.

 

Oh, wow. I have a slight tendency to lose out at times. Mind telling us exactly how to do it correctly? Also, would you explain the instant Skull Cracker trick to Whimsikal?

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Thanks for the list of oki options! :) IAD is the thing which goes "diagonal jump forward and then quickly press forward once", right? But what is an air-turn? diagonal jump backwards and then airdash forwards?

 

 

But how am I supposed to block when I already started my oki?

 

 For the air-turn, you just press A+C in the air, you will see your character turning in the air.After this,  if you do an air forward dash, it will turn into a backdash going towards the opponent, and if  you do an air backdash, you will do an air forward dash away from the opponent. Your attacks are also reversed (you obviously hit towards the direction you're facing) BUT jA can hit on both sides of Chie, so you can use it  even when air-turned to do an overhead.

 

Most of the times, when you go for 5DD oki, you can simply wait for the opponent to block the first hit of 5DD before beginning your mixup. Say you knockdown your opponent with a sweep  and attempt 5DD then jump and attempt to do a mixup : you perform 5DD, wait a bit and jump. Your opponent should be blocking the first hit of 5DD at the apex of your jump.

- If the opponent chose to use a reversal move  and not block, you just hold 4 after jumping and you should end up guarding most of the reversal moves. Then you just have to punish him with the combo of your choice.

-If the opponent chose to block, then he can't use a reversal anymore, since you can't use them while being in blockstun. That means you can go for the mixup of your choice without having to pay attention to what he does.

 

Truth is,it's actually a little more complex than that, but this is a good starting point to understand how 5DD okizeme works

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 For the air-turn, you just press A+C in the air, you will see your character turning in the air.After this,  if you do an air forward dash, it will turn into a backdash going towards the opponent, and if  you do an air backdash, you will do an air forward dash away from the opponent. Your attacks are also reversed (you obviously hit towards the direction you're facing) BUT jA can hit on both sides of Chie, so you can use it  even when air-turned to do an overhead.

 

Most of the times, when you go for 5DD oki, you can simply wait for the opponent to block the first hit of 5DD before beginning your mixup. Say you knockdown your opponent with a sweep  and attempt 5DD then jump and attempt to do a mixup : you perform 5DD, wait a bit and jump. Your opponent should be blocking the first hit of 5DD at the apex of your jump.

- If the opponent chose to use a reversal move  and not block, you just hold 4 after jumping and you should end up guarding most of the reversal moves. Then you just have to punish him with the combo of your choice.

-If the opponent chose to block, then he can't use a reversal anymore, since you can't use them while being in blockstun. That means you can go for the mixup of your choice without having to pay attention to what he does.

 

Truth is,it's actually a little more complex than that, but this is a good starting point to understand how 5DD okizeme works

Thanks a lot! :) I will try the air-turn thing, when I get home :)

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You may want to look at this for a better understanding of how 5DD works: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6075-p4a-okizeme-stuff/

That being said, you will not be able to do sweep > 5DD in Ultimax (although I don't know when it'll hit Europe). So whether or not to ingrain that in muscle memory is up to you, because you're going to be removing it later. (Narukami has the same issue.)

I'm usually playing against Chie, not as her, so I can't offer much more than that, unfortunately.

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You may want to look at this for a better understanding of how 5DD works: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6075-p4a-okizeme-stuff/

That being said, you will not be able to do sweep > 5DD in Ultimax (although I don't know when it'll hit Europe). So whether or not to ingrain that in muscle memory is up to you, because you're going to be removing it later. (Narukami has the same issue.)

I'm usually playing against Chie, not as her, so I can't offer much more than that, unfortunately.

Thanks, I will look into this guide! I do have two PSN accounts (one for Europe and one for NA), so I don't care if it hits Europe at all :P And about the muscle memory: It still takes some time until it's out and I don't want to waive one of her most useful tools :D

 

Another question: Are her challenges worth a look? Usually these contain unpractical or simply bad combos .:D

 

edit: Oh and I tried the "thick throw" thing in training mode, without success. For some reason I always whiff the throw. What's the secret behind this? When EXACTLY do I have to input the throw command?

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edit: Oh and I tried the "thick throw" thing in training mode, without success. For some reason I always whiff the throw. What's the secret behind this? When EXACTLY do I have to input the throw command?

It's actually a "tick throw" lol. Anyway, you just want to delay the throw a bit, there's some time where you can't throw someone due to them still being in blockstun (and possibly slightly after, I forget if this game has throw protection like that). If you delay it a small amount, you'll get it to work. It's just a technique, not something that's built into the game or anything so you can play around with it.

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You can't throw someone if they're in blockstun or hitstun, +6 frames after stun... unless they're in spinning stun from an AoA or specific move that induces spin (Kanji has one, don't think Chie does). Also, and at the risk of stating the obvious, ground throws don't work if your opponent jumps.

You just have to feel it out. Don't cancel 5A immediately into a throw; do an empty low or fake a whiff into a grab, at least if you can do it without telegraphing the throw. If you have someone in the corner, they will be more likely to expect the throw and may be able to tech it (rare but it happens if you get predictable). There's also an OS for run-up grabs, so be careful if your opponent shows they know it. Otherwise, throws are pretty hard (okay, almost impossible for non-pro players) to react to in this game.

ETA: Forgot to note that you can throw someone during a roll/Evasive Action but not Guard Cancel... but Guard Cancel has a huge recovery period unless OMC'd, so it's pretty unsafe. And Yosuke's FA does block throws, but if you activate the counter from behind Yosuke, you can throw him after his trip animation.

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Thanks for the tips and advice. As a total newblet, I think my biggest weaknesses right now are execution on certain moves during a combo (I'm trying not to auto-combo all the time), and blocking the mixups. I don't know what everyone's overhead animations look like yet, so I get caught in mixups easily when I'm blocking low.

 

I'm getting a bit better at getting in with Chie but I'm not punishing opponents enough because I drop my combos before the super. I'll keep practicing and studying. Thanks!

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Double post. 

 

I seem to have a lot of trouble getting in on Labrys. She's able to keep me zoned pretty well and when I do get in I feel like her hits have higher priority than Chie's starters (or maybe at least higher priority than A and B). I'm also not really used to her animations so I confuse her overhead for regular attacks sometimes. Any general strategies for getting in closer on Labrys? Thanks!

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