Newbies of P4A, unite!

[indie_animator]

Hosting a lot of rooms? Add me then, maybe I'll be connected for some matches later.

Cool, I'll send an invite when I can get back to the PS3... Thurs-Sun this week due to Thanksgiving.  Short workweek!

If anyone here searches player rooms, I always rename mine as beginners so it stands out.

 

I'm glad the connection was good.  My brother's setup is wired.

[Rickt]

Thanks, but it's obvious I'm a scrub killer at best. You guys who take this game seriously are just too good. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask in this thread, but... If any of you could send me some critic of my performance I'd be grateful. No matter how harsh it might be. I tend to either dominate (when fighting random beginners) or get stomped. I'd like to know every fault you see if possible. Either posting here or messaging me. I use PS3 controller so hoping that isn't holding me back.

I sense massive walls of text in your future.

[Fortune]

Thanks, but it's obvious I'm a scrub killer at best. You guys who take this game seriously are just too good. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask in this thread, but... If any of you could send me some critic of my performance I'd be grateful. No matter how harsh it might be. I tend to either dominate (when fighting random beginners) or get stomped. I'd like to know every fault you see if possible. Either posting here or messaging me. I use PS3 controller so hoping that isn't holding me back.

I will be getting a capture card on Black Friday - so for the group as a whole, I can save some replays on request and then PM those matches once I know what I'm doing.

 

I saved 2 from yesterday before you dropped.

 

In a nutshell, you need to vary Marie pressure more. j.C > land 5A and 236A bag overhead is sorta staple (read: everyone who's played against Marie know they're coming) so you're going to utitlize OMC's much more. 236A OMC lets you either go low or overhead for real with j.2B, there's other stuff but I can't think of it on the top of my head.

 

You overuse j.C a lot where you will cleanly eat Brutal Impact, God's Hand, or other big reversals on counterhit for a free 3K or more. With Margaret, I can Power Slash you from a third of the screen away for ~2.5K and OMC that for a burst-safe ~4K. In general, people can also 2B/antiair or airthrow on reaction if you get called on it.

 

Be mindful of DP, Marie's is good-ish but with Margaret I can bait that with 5C and you get punished severely for it.

 

You're not properly using your burst. In general, there were some awkward Gold Bursts, bursts at round start where they weren't going to get anything off, and I recall you bursting against Pharoah's Liz when you were /well/ ahead. There was no reason to burst, there was no momentum Liz was getting off that sequence and you won anyway. So you went into the next round with no burst at all.

 

Even though I don't know what I'm doing as Chie (because I'm caffeinated as hell), you have to really watch what you're pressing.

 

I can tell you were pressing buttons/weren't blocking because I recall 5DD sometimes hitting or even counterhits. If she is doing 5A stagger pressure, you have to watch for the holes and make a well-educated guess. Just basically block, watch for throw or crossup j.B among other stuff. CH 5B > 2DD will hurt like hell and if I'm in Awakening, Meteors > God Hand will probably kill you well out of Awakening. I dropped this combo last night (because lol IK instead of SB God's Hand). I believe I killed you with lunge punch on block > Black Spot which is another sequence you shouldn't mash out of either.

 

And finally, the AoAs. Either you're trying to use them too much to try to open someone up and when you did, you're not getting much off it. Your AoAs weren't followed up with much and often let me airtech away from harm so you actually did me a /favor/.  If I blocked it and reacted properly, I could likely get a huge CH. This is /once again/ why the AoA crackdown is a thing.

[Greater Force]

Hmmm... well, I totally see the problem with me being a one trick pony on offence. I actually spent a few hours in training today checking for a new (low execution) overhead starter. I may have found a new mixup, but won't know until I fight another defensive player (I think it HEAVILY relies on me outguessing them due to pesky DP's.). Been practicing dash cancel on 5C as well, not that great... but hoping it'll catch some cornered people. 5C/2C also hides her AoA (which after setting Yu to grab spam ,can't be grabbed) fairly well due to the my color choice. Although, I know you guys hate those lol.

OMC/OMB is a system I can't seem to incorporate well. I'll probably work it in as I go along.

Knowing when to hit a button while being bashed on is... difficult to say the least. I should not attempt to escape ASAP? I think that will be a weakness I'll have for a looooong time.

Thanks for the tips.

[Fortune]

Hmmm... well, I totally see the problem with me being a one trick pony on offence. I actually spent a few hours in training today checking for a new (low execution) overhead starter. I may have found a new mixup, but won't know until I fight another defensive player (I think it HEAVILY relies on me outguessing them due to pesky DP's.). Been practicing dash cancel on 5C as well, not that great... but hoping it'll catch some cornered people. 5C/2C also hides her AoA (which after setting Yu to grab spam ,can't be grabbed) fairly well due to the my color choice. Although, I know you guys hate those lol.

OMC/OMB is a system I can't seem to incorporate well. I'll probably work it in as I go along.

Just remember that AoA's themselves aren't inherently prohibited, just know the situations where it's suitable and then squeeze everything you possibly can if /do/ use them.

 

For OMC's, I found it better to treat them as objects and learned from videos on how to apply each one.

 

As Margaret, I learned how to use Power Slash OMC for punishing things at distances for people unfamiliar with the matchup. Now I'm learning where to apply 236D OMC for mixups. It's just about learning your character and eventually noticing situations where OMCs turn things around in your favor.

 

Also in general, OMC's are generally the "I Screwed Up" do-over card for things unsafe on block (read: AoA once again).

 

Knowing when to hit a button while being bashed on is... difficult to say the least. I should not attempt to escape ASAP? I think that will be a weakness I'll have for a looooong time.

This is so important, that it needed to be in its own bubble.

 

In a nutshell, you should be patient. In high level play, you're going to see people blocking for a long time for several reasons.

 

- Because this game features stagger pressure so heavily, you're going to constantly be in a guessing game on whether it's safe to escape/mash or not.

Often you're not going to be upbacking all the time and an opponent will start calling you out with air unblockable attacks, airthrows, among other things. If they have a better normal faster than /any/ of your normals, you're not likely to win that exchange.

 

- It also requires knowing your options vs the opponent's.

 

Many characters have common safejumps after a knockdown. That means when those setups are timed correctly, you should be doing nothing but blocking and if you /did/ attempt to do a reversal then it can either be stuffed or the attacker has enough time to recover and block it.

 

Other characters can also use their Persona/normals at a sweet spot distance to get you to crack for trying to retaliate. And with me as Margaret, I can afford to send out a Persona as a bodyguard and then sweep you for breaking it (sometimes you don't even get to break it! \o/)

 

There's things like instant blocking (harder online I know) and option selects (when used judiciously, these can also be blown up) which help circumvent these problems but in general, you really need to be patient and just familiarize yourself with the opponent's strings and where you have the most problems.

[mixedmethods]

5C/2C also hides her AoA (which after setting Yu to grab spam ,can't be grabbed) fairly well due to the my color choice. Although, I know you guys hate those lol.

5C and 2C add blockstun, but they're not what the defender is going to look at: the persona has no high-low-throw, so in that situation, the opponent is going to be looking at Marie. After that, it's just a matter of knowing the probable options and recognising them. If you don't have 50 meter, bag special > OMC after first hit > second overhead isn't possible, so we can rule that option out. If you're in 5A and 2A range, downback. I could keep going, but long story short, your AoA is not nearly as invisible as you'd like to think, as for 29f after the 5C or 2C, you're in AoA start-up and animation, removing the actual threat of pressure and mix-up and giving your opponent almost half a second to recognise that you're going for AoA.

Fortune actually beat me to the punch -- I noted the same thing in a draft DM: your use of AoAs actually resets the situation to neutral. AoA starter + 2 hits of mash = opponent teching out. This is the last thing you want with a setplay character like Marie. Ironically, you actually give up momentum and advantage due to your reliance on AoA as a "OMG must stop them blocking" mechanism. Like I said before: you're at advantage if someone is blocking. Stagger pressure. &c.

Whatever your crutch and/or bad habit is, ban it for at least a day. For some people, it's Evasive Action; for others, it's DP -- whatever your particular "quirk" is, play for a few days without it. I was (and still am) incredibly predictable with DPs, to the point where I joke I'm not allowed to DP any longer and "you guys stole my fun," but having that option taken away, both by players and by my own artificial limiter, made me somewhat less inclined to commit suicide.

It's not that your only combo is AoA, which is a problem for some people thanks to Challenge Mode. (Fortune will tell you that when he started with Chie, the only real combo he had was her Challenge Mode AoA combo. Which worked until we realised that and stopped getting hit by the AoA altogether.) You seem to have some kind of mental block regarding the need for overheads when you have a standing low and a standing overhead (not AoA, the bag slam), and it's as though AoA is a crutch for you. Marie has some great tools, but a three hit AoA that lets the opponent escape is not a good idea. It's not just Marie, either: Aigis has unparalleled mix-up and great stagger pressure, but even with her, you panicked and defaulted to AoA. (And as an Aigis main, that's just ... why ... no... anguished sobs.) I know you've said you feel Marie has weak mix-up but this seems more like a personal thing. Just... slow down.

If you're going to use AoA, grind out the mash in training. You'll get it into muscle memory if you practise -- everyone's had to. Some people map A+B to a macro, which may help; I use stick, so I just hold forward after the AoA initiation, hit A and B simultaneously, and have developed a sense of where I am in the rush based on muscle memory and the occasional visual cue. (I used to chant "one-two-three-four-five-six-seven-eight" at hyperspeed to do the rush.) I still don't get it perfectly every time, but spending 20 minutes grinding it one night was about all I needed to start landing the D ender fairly consistently. You just ... practise. There's no reason you can't do the mash. If you feel like you can't, then AoA > OMC is preferable to what you're doing now, as with the OMC, you could actually start an offence instead of letting the opponent go after a negligible combo.

OMC/OMB is a system I can't seem to incorporate well. I'll probably work it in as I go along.

OMCs are an important tool for combos and defence, but sticking to defence: if you're unsafe after a move is blocked, OMCing is your friend. It also lets you do stupid things with the spinstate caused by the first, non-mash hit of an AoA.

Bursting was another note, but Fortune covered it. My decisions change based on whether or not an opponent has a Burst or 50 meter to OMC and block a reversal. Or whether they have meter at all: the moment a Sho or Minazuki has meter in Awakening, I play very cautiously and wait for them to either spend the meter elsewhere or bait out Moonsmasher. If Fortune has 50 or 100 meter, then Power Slash [>OMC] is a likely reversal, so if I'm pressuring, I either need 50 meter to OMC and block the actual attack or to just back off a bit, keep my strings safe, and not give him a chance to buffer the super and CH me. &c.

Regarding j.C to approach: MU knowledge is a factour here, but more generally, being aware of your opponent's meter is something to work on. As Shabrys, once I hit Awakening, meter is huge, as with 150, I can make life hell: I could do Titano with Brutal Impact B for 5.7k off a Guillotine SB starter; I could do Titano but with the extra 100 (or 75 if I use Titano SB) meter, I have the meter to OMC and block if I see your Burst gauge empty (that gauge empties before the Burst hits), OMC and block a Guard Cancel, etc., add Brutal Impact (which version is ... situational if I activate Titano without a knockdown) if one of the moves in the sequence is a CH or FC, or I could do a kill combo that links two EX TV Punch supers for the full 150 meter... or I could do TV Punch into Brutal Impact... look at all the fun ways Shabrys can kill people! Long story short, the more resources Shabrys has, the more threatening she is. If Shabrys is persona-broken, then the only super she has is Brutal Impact. The A version is 30f start-up but still 30f; if I'm landing this raw (didn't combo into it), then it's because I saw someone commit to a bad idea (i.e., it's a punish) and/or run at me without respecting my meter. Generally, j.C is getting you killed here: it's less raw reaction than prediction/assumption -- you jump and I know j.C is coming based on the distance between us, so I buffer Brutal A, which is a 3.6k/2.2k CH punish and/or round-ender.

This leads into another reason OMCs can save your lifebar: Brutal Impact has unthrowable autoguard for the duration of its start-up (all versions, but Brutal A is the only version fast enough to be used as a reversal or punish), so if you hit that autoguard (with, say, a 5A or a 5B -- you'll visibly hit Shabrys but you'll also notice Shabrys's new pose and the fact that hitting her inflicted no damage), quickly OMC and block the attack, then kill Shabrys. It is doable -- I have seen it happen. 30f is not outside human reaction time, and your reaction will go up once you realise "oh hey, Shabrys has 50 meter." Same story with God's Hand and lots of other supers, but most supers have invuln frames, so something like wake-up God's Hand > OMC or Myriad Arrows > OMC (OMC when invuln ends) are things that ... exist and why looking at your opponent's meter is vital: it gives you an idea of what options your opponent has (just like whether or not they have a Burst), and adjust accordingly. In the case of Brutal Impact, OMC is not possible if the attack is blocked and Brutal leaves Shabrys in Fatal Recovery -- it's not a particularly "safe" super. Generally, I've caught you auto-piloting pressure or approaching with j.C when I have meter, and because the damage on CH is so high, that's often all I need.

Sometimes you seem to be very aware of what's happening on screen, what I'm doing, where Asterius is, etc., but either you panic or autopilot at times and that's usually when I steal the round. In our fights, you do a solid job of keeping me locked down and either breaking my cards or just sealing off Asterius, but when you're at a distance and we're at neutral, the auto-pilot kicks in: you tend to routinely j.C to approach, you go to set an item but Hammer Uppercut hits, etc.

Honestly, just calm down. Remove your "default to AoA" panic switch for a few days. Keep working on your stagger pressure and set-ups. You're not in any way bad, but you need to deal with the internal block regarding AoAs and "I have no mix-up," as that's what could hold you back.

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Reading Fortune and mixed's feedback  on stuff always reminds me how terrible I am at helping people with things.

 

If he doesn't have a katana, i dunno.

[Rickt]

So I'm gonna actually try to be helpful here despite my knowledge of this particular game being minimal. Here goes:

 

Regarding mixup with Marie and OMCs, a neat little thing I found labbing with Marie is 5BB > OMC. What this leads to is like the fastest high > low I've ever seen. Since 5BB leaves you airborne if you OMC it, you can do an extremely low to the ground j.B, then immediately land and do 5A. No matter which one they get hit with, they're gonna get combo'd, but if by some holy act they manage to block this, you can just start your pressure over again. Also, after blocking this for a couple minutes in training and mashing Narukami's and Yosuke's DPs with all my heart and soul, I found this is also a true blockstring, so you're safe from DPs when attempting this.

 

It's little things like this that can go a long way when it comes to mixup with OMCs. Lab it up and see what you can find.

[Greater Force]

Thanks for all the advice you guys. Rickt, I have been looking into ways to get a few low J.B ,J.2B's in my assaults. That's actually what I was practicing. (I didn't even know Marie's J.B was a overhead until I looked through the wiki some.) The OMC is interesting too, thanks.

[QSpec]

Just introducing myself.

 

I am a Rise player (though I hope to be a SLabrys main eventually).  I've got a pocket combo, but my execution needs to be tightened up for sure.  As P1, IADs, 236236, and expecially 214 > 236236 motions are crushing me.

 

Anyway, I'd be down to play just about anyone.  I don't mind getting bodied.  I just like to learn

[Anne]

Whoever waifus Guymam needs to get their head examined

[heavymetalmixer]

Just to remember to the new members that every Friday at night (9pm EST) we make a room for learning and having fun.

[mixedmethods]

Just introducing myself.

I am a Rise player (though I hope to be a SLabrys main eventually). I've got a pocket combo, but my execution needs to be tightened up for sure. As P1, IADs, 236236, and expecially 214 > 236236 motions are crushing me.

Anyway, I'd be down to play just about anyone. I don't mind getting bodied. I just like to learn

Feel free to add me on PSN. My Shabrys would love some more Rise experience.

Execution is... ugh, not my strongest suit, but the beginner forums here have all kinds of tips on practising even the most basic drills that I've made into my own "workout plan." When I first started FGs, all the way back in week two, I was P2 when I'd play matches against my trainer and I subsequently couldn't remember how things worked when I found myself on P1 side. "236 so 214 for P2... WAIT I'M ACTUALLY P1, SO STOP REVERSING... carry the four... remainder of five...."

ETA: Yeah, the giant Friday meet-up is still on ... I'm sure some people will have American Thanksgiving and Black Friday plans, but I don't! \o/

[indie_animator]

Just to remember to the new members that every Friday at night (9pm EST) we make a room for learning and having fun.

 

Cool, I'll try to get in again (didn't get the invite the last three weeks).  Do people get in by sending MM a message a bit before starting time?

I wonder if the room filled each time, and that's why I haven't gotten in.  Hope I'm still welcome.  I try to contribute to the community with beginner rooms as well (Sat/Sun).

Thanks!

[TheHitmarkersPro]

Whoever waifus Guymam needs to get their head examined

wow, #r00d

[MechaBaphomet]

If you guys want a Chie in the mix feel free to hit me up or add me on PSN.

[mixedmethods]

I wonder if the room filled each time, and that's why I haven't gotten in.  Hope I'm still welcome.  I try to contribute to the community with beginner rooms as well (Sat/Sun).

We've been overcrowded the past three weeks, probably longer. I do my best to coordinate invites based on slots and who's online, but generally my PSN inbox blows up on Friday nights and I can't respond to messages -- typing on a fight stick while also making sure matches are on is a PITA. At least my headset works now. But, yeah, I'm trying to keep the room going, answer questions, and deal with messages regarding "I didn't leave, connexion dropped," etc., then sending invites between matches ... honestly, it's just space issues. Unfortunately, I'm not an omniscient being, so nothing's perfect.

The meet-ups aren't only on Fridays. It helps to add me on PSN because (1) I need to be able to invite you (there are multiple posts from people I've sent friend requests asking about joining the meet-ups: guys, I sent you requests clarifying that I'm from DL; if you don't add me back, I really can't help); (2) we meet at other times. The eight-man rooms are ... not anyone's preference; 4-6 people is a lot more fun. That's often how we end up meeting future regulars -- here, in lobbies, or a few of us play someone from the thread and come back with glowing reviews, etc. I was sick when a few fellow newbies first played Garden, for example.

It has nothing to do with kissing my ass. I run the rooms because I'm the one who has friended or attempted to friend every person who has posted in this thread expressing an interest in joining.

[heavymetalmixer]

Mmm, now that I think about it . . . why don't we use one of the lobbies just for everyone in this thread on the Friday nights? 32 lots is a lo of space you know?

 

It could be one of the last ones so we always get it while it's empty.

[Rickt]

I think the problem with that is that it'd be hard for us all to communicate with one another. Considering the main purpose is for everyone to help each other improve, not being able to see all the matches and comment on them would take away some of the importance of what we're trying to do.

[mixedmethods]

I think the problem with that is that it'd be hard for us all to communicate with one another. Considering the main purpose is for everyone to help each other improve, not being able to see all the matches and comment on them would take away some of the importance of what we're trying to do.

You're the best Secretary-Treasurer I've ever had! Maybe we should replace the VP... hmm....

[Fortune]

THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!  RESPECT MY AUTHORITaY! ily bae <3

 

(Nevermind this being my Twitter background http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.15978210.5707/fc,550x550,cranberry.u4.jpg )

 

In general, the room is better since it's easier for showing things in training and answering things more immediately with more people.

 

Even on Friday, I think we /just/ get the room filled for the whole night (and we stay allllll night)

 

The Fortune Lobby is obviously the lobby of choice though \o/

[mixedmethods]

I just combed through the thread and I believe I have now sent friend requests to everyone who left their PSN name and wanted to join. The request should read "From DL's P4AU beginners thread." or something similar. I know I've sent messages to people who've asked to join asking if they'd like to meet so I can answer any questions, discuss specific MUs, whatever, and my PSN is right next to my name, so if you see me on, you're always welcome to send me a message and ask me to meet. I am miced because it's the easiest way for me to communicate (no USB keyboard, no computer near my PS3: sadness) but I can also meet you in a room and voice chat on Skype. Most of the discussion in rooms is done via mic, particularly "hey this person just got here, everyone please pass so they can get a game," so being able to hear us is helpful.

We do things like discuss MUs ("how to blow up my character"), give feedback when asked, mention "you need to respect this/this isn't real" during matches, demonstrate things in training, and even review replays -- with Aigis and Shabrys, sometimes I'm asked "okay, what happened," or I may ask Fortune about Margaret, etc. And sometimes AnneIFrank comes by to remind us to block and teach us neat shit, and one time, a wild Colpevole appeared!

Honestly, the way the meet-ups (which happen... all the time, not just Fridays) work is based on interest. If you come once and we never hear from you again, that sucks if you were awesome. Fridays are really crowded, so I may do a special format for this upcoming Friday that focuses on easing in newer members. In any event, it's not just Friday -- Saturday and Sunday generally involve a good portion of us getting back together. Mondays used to be a regular meet-up day, but now it's pretty much "whenever enough of us are online and feel like playing." (Breaks are good!)

Interest isn't the only factour. Your connexion speed isn't going to get you kicked, but if you lag and skip intros even after being told not to skip them, I will ... move from mildly gruntled to full disgruntled. If you're pure netplay, none of us can beat the bad habits out of you unless you actually want to learn and are willing to accept that you're going to have to actively suppress going for panic options, so please don't think these lobbies can turn you into a better player in just four easy payments. Those of us who combined forces back in the dying days of Arena span varying skill levels but all of us want to develop good habits, implement strategies and OSes used in high-level play, develop neutral game, etc. We are not driven by win-lose -- we do Narukami-Narukami mirrors for the lulz, so, you know, there's a certain amount of "let's blow off steam" that happens.

Those of us who form the "OG" set of beginners are all people who try to both give to the lobbies and take away knowledge, new combos, things to practise, etc., from them. The rooms are set to Winner Out because the point isn't for someone to run through the room and feel awesome over "I'm such a netplay boss." So hopefully this clarifies some of what the lobbies are about and what we do -- inquisitive players are the best players. We don't care if you lose! We don't give any fucks about colour, either. (I purposely keep myself at Light Blue.) It's the person who asks "What did I get hit by?" or "I keep getting hit by that reversal. What do I need to change to bait or make it a non-option?" that's got the right mindset. Hell, tell us what your goal is for the night (anti-airing consistently, landing AA follow-ups, not mashing DP, whatever) and we'll cheer you on. It's that kind of party.

In general, the room is better since it's easier for showing things in training and answering things more immediately with more people.

Yeah, there's no (feasible) way I can teach you how to block Titano in a lobby, since Training means I can demo it without the cooldown + match timer.

[indie_animator]

We've been overcrowded the past three weeks, probably longer. I do my best to coordinate invites based on slots and who's online, but generally my PSN inbox blows up on Friday nights and I can't respond to messages -- typing on a fight stick while also making sure matches are on is a PITA. At least my headset works now. But, yeah, I'm trying to keep the room going, answer questions, and deal with messages regarding "I didn't leave, connexion dropped," etc., then sending invites between matches ... honestly, it's just space issues. Unfortunately, I'm not an omniscient being, so nothing's perfect.

The meet-ups aren't only on Fridays. It helps to add me on PSN because (1) I need to be able to invite you (there are multiple posts from people I've sent friend requests asking about joining the meet-ups: guys, I sent you requests clarifying that I'm from DL; if you don't add me back, I really can't help); (2) we meet at other times. The eight-man rooms are ... not anyone's preference; 4-6 people is a lot more fun. That's often how we end up meeting future regulars -- here, in lobbies, or a few of us play someone from the thread and come back with glowing reviews, etc. I was sick when a few fellow newbies first played Garden, for example.

It has nothing to do with kissing my ass. I run the rooms because I'm the one who has friended or attempted to friend every person who has posted in this thread expressing an interest in joining.

Ah, I see.  No prob.  If space is limited it makes sense to prioritize 1st timers, etc. 

 

I'm one-month rookie at this game, but have been playing fighting games since SF.  Things have come a long way from randoms at the arcade.

 

Big thanks for handling all that.  Yeah, I've got you on my PSN friends list.  Let me know if I can help with anything.  Sounds like a handful.

[mixedmethods]

Room tonight, but I'm bumping the time back to 9:15 EST because life happened.

[heavymetalmixer]

I can't assist tonight, family matters : /