Mounting an offense

[phytoporg]

So, I've finally gotten to the point where I can hit the HCL FRC nonsense fairly consistently in matches, but I'm finding myself not often having the opportunity to land it since I have a huuuge problem getting in on people. My general I-no game has become something to the effect of keeping away and spamming notes until the opposition either eats one or is stuck blocking it. It's not working out too well, since I can't seem to keep people far enough away to control the field with notes (I primarily play against an axl and a slayer). If I-no's not approaching under the cover of a blocked note though, how else is she supposed to go in for the mixup->damage? If I try and get in at any other time, unless it's to punish something retarded, I seem to get stuffed by anti-air or whatever random pokes. I see people get away with it in match videos though-- am I missing something? When is it a good idea to just go for the random dash-in? It seems if you're unpredictable enough and throw in a fake-out often enough to keep your opponent on his toes it shouldn't be a problem? There has to be a way, because relying so heavily on notes tends to leave me perpetually on the defensive, which is a frustrating uphill battle for I-no. D: Anyone care to share a strategy on getting in peoples' faces? Particularly in these two matchups-- that'd be cool

[whytesakura]

you got a long ways to go then sir.

[SIne]

from what i have watched in videos, the way people usually get in for HCL combos is VIA knockdown and oki note...when an opponent blocks this low, you overhead then with a move or overhead into a low mixup usually involving her 2k 2s and 2D moves, Stbt is also used sometimes in block strings to set up 5k hcl... if the opponent just jumps from note oki that means you can start doing it as 69 or 88 or fish for air throws into the wall.. if you are afraid of getting anti -air'd, don't just randomly dash, cause her dash is very punishable. so you can dash break and then start 2k 2s hcl, it does not give that good damage but it gives KD and resets momentum again to start more oki mixups...including j.D seems to be another option as well, as it has some weird kind of priority over certain moves..well i can only say this much as i am still learning i-no myself, our resident experts could probably tell you more (honnou, 9tnine, Mynus and buckles and whyte sakura)

[whytesakura]

string into knockdowns

[Blade]

5H, H STBT and if that's not safe use either FRC on STBT and block/throw. You can also rotate H STBT with S STBT. Also TK Air 236H or TK 236D never hurts for a surprise or two. Her 5K, 2S, 2K, 6H, can be used as pokes, 5H has a lot of range as it can hit someone not quite off the ground. Her Ground-to-Air Dash puts her in the best position for Airthrows too which is a good setup for combos. If you somehow land H STBT Stagger, 6P that into 5H and combo the rest. Oh yeah and you can also do 5K, close 5S, 6P, 5H -combo the rest. If that isn't comfortable you can always do 6P, close 5S into something as that's a free air combo right there.

[whytesakura]

So, I've finally gotten to the point where I can hit the HCL FRC nonsense fairly consistently in matches, but I'm finding myself not often having the opportunity to land it since I have a huuuge problem getting in on people.

My general I-no game has become something to the effect of keeping away and spamming notes until the opposition either eats one or is stuck blocking it. It's not working out too well, since I can't seem to keep people far enough away to control the field with notes (I primarily play against an axl and a slayer). If I-no's not approaching under the cover of a blocked note though, how else is she supposed to go in for the mixup->damage?

If I try and get in at any other time, unless it's to punish something retarded, I seem to get stuffed by anti-air or whatever random pokes. I see people get away with it in match videos though-- am I missing something? When is it a good idea to just go for the random dash-in? It seems if you're unpredictable enough and throw in a fake-out often enough to keep your opponent on his toes it shouldn't be a problem? There has to be a way, because relying so heavily on notes tends to leave me perpetually on the defensive, which is a frustrating uphill battle for I-no. D:

Anyone care to share a strategy on getting in peoples' faces? Particularly in these two matchups-- that'd be cool

don't think about comboing. think about getting the knockdown. think about mix up. then think about comboing. you want to start the match in their face.

good pokes for the start of the match against axl

sstroke if counterhit (burst bait combo) they still lose about 50% life if not they lose 60%

2s -> hcl

tk sdive

5k hcl

wait for them to backdash xx hcl

he puts you out:

play safe

stroke under stuff

iad over stuff

always wait after blocking 2p because he will string into rensen

[whytesakura]

starting the match blocking against axl isn't bad either. if axl throws out the wrong move he lets you in and thats no good for him because 5p,2k beats about every normal he has up close.

[feri]

hoverdash into jump is pretty good and if slayer is bent on AA'ing you all day....

[bucklemyshoe]

Well let me say first...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzCkcqfNFrw

posting this as an example would have helped everyone out in giving you advice.

So before I critique the video, some general tips.

6644 works wonderful against axl. in addition you can also dash into instant "cross ups" by performing a slashback anytime you're above you're opponent. if you can't get in on your opponent then let them get in on you. I-No has a wonderful throw that literally has soooo many options. if you're up against a slayer who uses 632146+P on your wake up (non-meaty) or if they just use it alot (hah) then you can activate IK mode during it's animation, it'll go right through you leaving you right next to him to score an IK. If he follows the 632146+P with pretty much anything he's fucked. However if he's smart enough to stop it's blockable and you better hope you catch him with some air throws. Let us not forget her 6P.

ummm anyway.... onto the vid,

0:12 you jump in and just stand there? is it really a wonder why you got hit?

looks like you found out the hard way that axl can punish STBT. I would suggest keeping it strickly to combos for this fight. Fishing with it is just dumb. Or atleast if you must do it at the end of a mix up.

the next biggest thing is that you're attacking constantly, you have absolutey no defense. you can tell that the axl player knows this, he's baiting your random dives and hcl's left and right. you have to be able to think.

i know you see koichi doing jk 2k into some elaborate high tension combo but really you should be focusing on getting a knockdown if that's your opener. the damage you get on a jk 2k combo is reduced sooo much that any tension you spend is worthless. try going from the 2k into 6p 5h jh ----> dives -----> k-dive instead of trying to HCL cancel. which brings up the fact that you're clearly trying to do something that you can't. jk into 2k isn't that hard but you messed it up through the whole video. try delaying your inputs in training mode a bit. what's worst is the fact that your dropped it and dropped it and dropped it again even on a counter hit.

2:36 throw, tk note, frc, 66 = WTF? what was the point of doing that other than to waste tension?

also a little bit before that when you got the wall throw, try doing a p-dive instead of s-dive or atleast continue the combo, that's a real easy one.

I-No's gameplan is fairly simple and most other players are somewhat aware of it. if you're going to spit notes on unkocked down opponents then you need to mix it up a bit more. reverse dash into them or super jump or whatever, don't just TK it every time.

I could probably add alot more but I think you have plenty to work on already.

[phytoporg]

sstroke if counterhit (burst bait combo) they still lose about 50% life if not they lose 60%

2s -> hcl

tk sdive

5k hcl

wait for them to backdash xx hcl

he puts you out:

play safe

stroke under stuff

iad over stuff

always wait after blocking 2p because he will string into rensen

Ah, thanks. This is more or less what I was looking for.

Oh, and Buckles-- I didn't post the video 'cause I've watched it a million times and have picked it apart pretty thoroughly... not that it needs any kind of careful scrutiny. A lot of the mistakes in there can be explained by the fact that I've been playing I-no (and GG, for that matter) very on-and-off and still don't feel "comfortable" I guess? I'd like to think I've improved a bit since that thing was recorded, but who knows. :P I spend a lot of time thinking about the game and not nearly enough time playing; hopefully I can remedy that when finals week is over. D; Also I suck at blocking.

[whytesakura]

damage is damage don't spend more than 25% on any combo starting with jk or 2k unless you will kill them same thing with throw frc (40% proration is a bitch) how you spend your tension in the match is highly situational keep that in mind. counter hit s stroke nets you massive damage tensionless and if you do the correct follow up (66 jd >delay vcl> 5p> 5s©.....) and they burst, thats a free reset. just wanted to fix that

[whytesakura]

if s stroke doesn't counter hit..you get a free ticket in axl techs : you airthrow him he doesn't : you're in

[bucklemyshoe]

^^^That would be good advice if axl didn't have a full combo punish. And sorry if what I said came off as harsh but all you really need to do is go into training mode and learn your combos. That and learn defense.

[TGS]

5H, H STBT and if that's not safe use either FRC on STBT and block/throw. You can also rotate H STBT with S STBT. Also TK Air 236H or TK 236D never hurts for a surprise or two.

You can 1-frame jump out of a blocked 5H, H STBT and get punished hard. Even if you FRC it, they're likely coming down on top of you with an attack (and we all know how terrible I-No's anti-airs are), or already have air-dashed their way away.

TK Air 236H? Unless you're doing this as part of her corner combo, don't even bother. Even if you FRC it, it's still a waste. Same shit with her TK Forcebreak; don't even bother unless you're using it as part of a combo.

If you're including crappy moves to use "for a surprise or two", there's a big chance that you are NOT a solid I-No player. Hell, if you want "surprise" moves, why not use her Overdrives instead? They're much safer and have better payouts...

Her 5K, 2S, 2K, 6H, can be used as pokes, 5H has a lot of range as it can hit someone not quite off the ground.

6H is a terrible poke. 2H is much better instead. Or hell, even 5S(f) is better.

Her Ground-to-Air Dash puts her in the best position for Airthrows too which is a good setup for combos.

Duh. Not to mention she has the 2nd-best airthrow range in the game so that's a moot point...

If you somehow land H STBT Stagger, 6P that into 5H and combo the rest.

That only works if 1) You landed it up close in the opponent's face, and 2) Your opponent can't mash out of staggers. Unfortunately, both don't happen as often, so a much better alternative would be:

5K, HCL

The above is virtually unmashable and works all the way to 5K's max range, plus you get a knockdown. And if you have 25% tension, then you can extend the above combo to:

5K, JI HCL FRC, airdash, combo

The possibilities are endless...

Oh yeah and you can also do 5K, close 5S, 6P, 5H -combo the rest.

Again, only works when you're way up close to your opponent, and even then, the pushback of H STBT may even make that close 5S turn into a far 5S when you don't want it to.

If that isn't comfortable you can always do 6P, close 5S into something as that's a free air combo right there.

Again, only works when you're way up close to your opponent, and even then, the pushback of H STBT may even make that close 5S turn into a far 5S when you don't want it to.

Plus, if your opponent can mash out of staggers, the 6P will never connect.

[bucklemyshoe]

I honestly wouldn't even use STBT-H without planning to cancel it or feeling very very confident that it will net me a counter hit. You can follow the CH stutter with HCL 6FRC6 JK JS VCL HCL (6FRC6->ETC) TK P-NOTE Also about TK H-DIVE: It's highly punishable, there is only a few reason I could recomend doing it outside of a combo. Potemkin IK setup ABA (FRC into Airthrow > Knockdown) Okay well 2 reasons. lol but she can easily be 6P'd and thrown out of it by the whole cast.

[whytesakura]

^^^That would be good advice if axl didn't have a full combo punish.

And sorry if what I said came off as harsh but all you really need to do is go into training mode and learn your combos. That and learn defense.

lolz....i fight a really good axl

like i said axl throws out the wrong poke, he's screwed

[whytesakura]

i do recall hs stroke being plus 1 on block i dont abuse the move but numbers don't lie

[whytesakura]

6hs can be used at the start of the round against certain characters and it is okay to use as anti-air given you use it at the right range. people who play fighting games know what spacing is. 6hs is not a poke

[whytesakura]

starting on offense truthfully is more of a player thing and not a character thing. can you make the opponent do certain things? mind games...yadda yadda

[bucklemyshoe]

6HS works wonders on Anji xD

[SIne]

6HS works wonders on Anji xD

and baiken apparantly...

[whytesakura]

it works correctly against anyone if you space it beats axls dumb cross up move for free counter hit

[WUT]

Yeah, I have no clue where to post this and I don't really want to make a topic just for this little question, so I figure I'll ask it here. Is there any specific knockdown or setup that always lets you get the correct height for a dash, then backwards air dash j.HS fake cross-up or is it based on other factors (character-specific, input-related trick)? Something along the lines of a ground gatling combo that ends with either a 2HS or 2D into HCL knockdown would be awesome.

[whytesakura]

i would say if you are far enough from the opponent and you knocked them down you get that set up. usually off of airthrows and ch hcl

[bucklemyshoe]

Yea, I wouldn't recomend it off a mixup knockdown either. JH is the hardest to land off a 6644 too. You'll have better luck going into a js sdive, straight sdive, jk 2k, or jk uf. If you must use JH, then do it while there all the way in the corner. Although honestly I prefer to just bait an attack and land into STBT. As far as the setup, it's just like whytesakura said. There isn't a specific one, but you'll eventually recognize the situations it'll work in.